Packerraymond Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, packfanfb said: So I'm curious, what is your predicted stat line for Lazard this year...assuming at most we add one mid range vet and a top 60 rookie? If he plays a full 17 games, 60 receptions 820 yards, 9 TDs. There's no #1 left in FA, there's no Justin Jefferson or Chase in this draft. We're not going to have a target share stud. We're probably going to have a bunch of guys in that 15-20% range, and I'd guess Lazard leads that due to his experience and productivity thus far. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, hitnhope said: His high year in receptions is 40. 2 catches per game. He is the Lancaster and Lowry of WR's. By far his best trait is blocking for the run game, but this isn't 1970's football anymore. Other teams with top QB's also have matched them with good+ receiving corps. It only makes sense. In this thread some are proposing that we live with about the worst receiving group in football. The only reason I can think of for that is that some who don't like AR want to be right more than they want the Packers to win a SB. That's the most pants on head idiotic comparison I've ever heard. Lazard is a hyper efficient player when targeted, and isn't even bad on a per snap basis in a run heavy offense and with a QB who ignores him. On the opposite side: Lowry is 3200 snaps deep into his Packer career and has 15 sacks. Lancaster has 59 solo tackles in 1300 snaps. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, hitnhope said: Suggesting Lazard is a #1 means someone doesnt really understand the analytics. Taking raw numbers without understanding mitigating factors has caused a number of bad decisions. What part of watching Lazard makes you see a WR with speed, elusiveness, dynamic plays, exceptional hands? He is a low level WR who blocks well and played on the other side of the best WR in football. That other WR is gone. You cited receptions as why Lazard is low level lol. I think I'm pretty confident I understand the argument on a different level. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 16 minutes ago, hitnhope said: I get most right. My take with the Rodgers/Love/Gute thing has played out like I called it all along. People don't always like to hear it though. I didnt mind the opinion. You're as entitled as anybody around here. The occasional stridency.....that was unnecessary IMO. But....t'sall good. It's water under the bridge at this juncture. Only thing that remains is @Mr Anonymous's wager that Love will be traded. Thats the critical point yet to be determined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: This. I'm not sure how you walk away watching the last 3 Super Bowls, and say that the WR room (and not the QB) was the reason why those teams won. I'm all about upgrading the WR room, but @packfanfb's logic is backwards here. Let me add that it's not just about winning that one game, you also have to get to the game first. The 2021 Rams don't get to the SB without acquiring OBJ. Now acquiring Miller was important too, but it doesn't diminish the OBJ signing. The 2021 Bucs probably go back to the SB if they don't lose AB and Godwin. They lost both and the Rams barely beat them. The 2021 Bengals made the SB with one of the worst OLs in the NFL. A big reason was their explosive passing game (plus good defense). The Chiefs have been the kings of the AFC for 5 years and have the best receiving combo in football with Hill and Kelce, and typically an average defense. No one is saying these teams simply because they have better WR rooms than GB. But an equally stupid statement would be that the WR talent on those teams doesn't play a vital role in that same success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitnhope Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 What part of watching Lazard makes you see a WR with speed, elusiveness, dynamic plays, exceptional hands? He is a low level WR who blocks well and played on the other side of the best WR in football. That other WR is gone. Do you think Lazard as the #1 gets the same kind of defensive emphasis going forward? Numbers can be made to say just about anything we want them to say. You using numbers to say Lazard is a #1 proves that point. The idea that Lazard is a top receiver is so off point that it isnt worth a deep dive in analytics. You poisoned the well with that idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 At least my Mock is the hottest thread in the forum right now. #winning 🤣 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, packfanfb said: The 2021 Rams don't get to the SB without acquiring OBJ. Now acquiring Miller was important too, but it doesn't diminish the OBJ signing. The Rams along with the Buccaneers and Packers were the heavy NFC favorites. OBJ might have helped them, but there's ZERO evidence that he was the reason why the Rams won the Super Bowl. 5 minutes ago, packfanfb said: The 2021 Bucs probably go back to the SB if they don't lose AB and Godwin. They lost both and the Rams barely beat them. No real proof of this. 6 minutes ago, packfanfb said: The 2021 Bengals made the SB with one of the worst OLs in the NFL. A big reason was their explosive passing game (plus good defense). The way you threw that "good defense" in the end is borderline criminal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, hitnhope said: The idea that Lazard is a top receiver is so off point that it isnt worth a deep dive in analytics. You poisoned the well with that idea. ^The numbers prove me wrong, so here's my strawman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, packfanfb said: At least my Mock is the hottest thread in the forum right now. #winning 🤣 Kind of like how so many people watch First Take. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, packfanfb said: Let me add that it's not just about winning that one game, you also have to get to the game first. The 2021 Rams don't get to the SB without acquiring OBJ. Now acquiring Miller was important too, but it doesn't diminish the OBJ signing. The 2021 Bucs probably go back to the SB if they don't lose AB and Godwin. They lost both and the Rams barely beat them. The 2021 Bengals made the SB with one of the worst OLs in the NFL. A big reason was their explosive passing game (plus good defense). The Chiefs have been the kings of the AFC for 5 years and have the best receiving combo in football with Hill and Kelce, and typically an average defense. No one is saying these teams simply because they have better WR rooms than GB. But an equally stupid statement would be that the WR talent on those teams doesn't play a vital role in that same success. The Rams don't go to the SB without Von Miller, the Bucs beat the Rams with a healthy Tristan Wirfs and Jensen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: If he plays a full 17 games, 60 receptions 820 yards, 9 TDs. There's no #1 left in FA, there's no Justin Jefferson or Chase in this draft. We're not going to have a target share stud. We're probably going to have a bunch of guys in that 15-20% range, and I'd guess Lazard leads that due to his experience and productivity thus far. Okay fine.......but taking your numbers (60 receptions 820 yards, 9 TDs) - which I fully realize are off the top of your head projections.... Based on last year's receiving stats & ranking: 60 receptions - Ranks him 51st in the league - tied with Pat Freiermuth (PIT) 820 yards - ranks him just behind Brandon Aiyuk (SF) (826yds) - 40th best in the league. 9 TD - this is where he comes out best - this ranks him tied with Mike Williams (LAC) - 9th best in the league. Again - I got it - your stats are nothing but pie in the sky projections - but if accurate - you're okay with that being our WR1? This is where I disagree with your "We'll be okay returning the same guys" philosophy. We need BALANCE to our passing game - which IMO at least - mandates we have somebody who's gonna draw coverage and help the other WRs (including Lazard) produce ABOVE your projections. Having a "lesser" on the other side of the field will not be a net gain for the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Norm said: Kind of like how so many people watch First Take. Are you calling me the Stephen A. Smith of the forum? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 10 minutes ago, hitnhope said: Suggesting Lazard is a #1 means someone doesnt really understand the analytics. Taking raw numbers without understanding mitigating factors has caused a number of bad decisions. What part of watching Lazard makes you see a WR with speed, elusiveness, dynamic plays, exceptional hands? He is a low level WR who blocks well and played on the other side of the best WR in football. That other WR is gone. Speed: Player A: 6'4-5/8, 227lbs, 4.55 40, 1.58 10-split, 17 bench reps, 38" vertical, 122" broad Player B: 6'0-5/8, 212lbs, 4.56 40, 1.64 10-split, 14 bench reps, 39.5" vertical, 123" broad One of these guys just got traded to the Raiders. The other is apparently too slow. Elusiveness: YAC/R 2020-2021 Player A: 4.97 Player B: 5.0 Dynamic Plays: Y/Reception 2020-2021 Player A: 13.2 Player B: 12.3 First Down % 2020-2021 Player A: 69.8% Player B: 66% TD % 2020-2021 Player A: 15.1% Player B: 12.1% Hands: Drop % 2021 Player A: 1.7 Player B: 1.8 Passer Rating Targeted 2021: Player A: 132.8 Player B: 115.3 Every measure of Allen Lazard from an efficiency standpoint is on par with Davante Adams. Obviously some of that efficiency will drop off as it's scaled up to more volume, but to say that there is no reason Allen Lazard shouldn't be in line to get more targets is just crazy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, packfanfb said: Are you calling me the Stephen A. Smith of the forum? You're like a lesser SAS lol 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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