seminoles1 Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 8 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said: It's not just about Poole though. Like I mentioned, same thing happened with Jalen Green this year. Poole struggling at the age of 22 would be different compared to when he was 19 or 20. What does age have to do with it? If you're playing consistently and are awful, then you could be the worst player in the league. Most young players will get better, sure, but it doesn't mean they aren't/weren't awful. Did you have the same response when Anthony Bennett sucked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: What does age have to do with it? If you're playing consistently and are awful, then you could be the worst player in the league. Most young players will get better, sure, but it doesn't mean they aren't/weren't awful. Did you have the same response when Anthony Bennett sucked? What does age have to do with it? Is this a serious question? And then being amazed of the natural development of the player within their rookie season or from year one to three? Bennett ended up not being good. That also happens. But I wasn't going to judge him until he continued to prove that was just how bad he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartica4Real Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said: What does age have to do with it? Is this a serious question? And then being amazed of the natural development of the player within their rookie season or from year one to three? Bennett ended up not being good. That also happens. But I wasn't going to judge him until he continued to prove that was just how bad he was. There are plenty of people who are age 18. 19, 20, whatever who don't play like the worst player in the league. I never thought this about Jalen Green tbf, whether due to age or how good he was as a prospect and giving him the benefit of the doubt. For most guys who become good they are at least decent in their rookie season, flash some of that potential. Poole was downright horrendous for an entire season, Green didn't even make it that long, and he has developed into a great player. Again, I don't think it's taking any credit away from them, it's a credit to them that they kept working and developing well. It's a lot easier to be an Anthony Bennett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said: What does age have to do with it? Is this a serious question? And then being amazed of the natural development of the player within their rookie season or from year one to three? Bennett ended up not being good. That also happens. But I wasn't going to judge him until he continued to prove that was just how bad he was. Yes, it's a serious question. In a given season, age is irrelevant. If you're playing and you're the worst player that season, then end of discussion. Doesn't mean you won't get better, but it also doesn't mean you weren't awful. Ziaire Williams was the worst player in the Grizzlies rotation this season. It doesn't matter if he was the youngest. It makes sense that he's the youngest, but it doesn't change that he was straight bad. He showed glimpses and I don't think he'll continue to be the worst player, but this season he was and that can't really be argued. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 1 minute ago, seminoles1 said: Yes, it's a serious question. In a given season, age is irrelevant. If you're playing and you're the worst player that season, then end of discussion. Doesn't mean you won't get better, but it also doesn't mean you weren't awful. Ziaire Williams was the worst player in the Grizzlies rotation this season. It doesn't matter if he was the youngest. It makes sense that he's the youngest, but it doesn't change that he was straight bad. He showed glimpses and I don't think he'll continue to be the worst player, but this season he was and that can't really be argued. Age is not irrelevant though. A 25 year old being the "worst player in the league" is different than a 19 year old being the worst player in the league. A kid's body and maturity level may not be there for a lot of these players and they need time to develop. Some end up developing faster but Poole's development isn't THAT big of a surprise considering the jump he made from year 1 to year 2. @Spartica4Realthat's fair, but you can't deny there weren't people on here and just in general talking about Jalen Green being the worst player in the league at the beginning of the season and up until the ASB. That was just laughable to me. He may have been playing the worst in the league with the volume of shots he was taking and his playing time, but he was not the worst player in the league or close to that. His increased role on a bad team made him look that way but once the game started slowing down for him, he started performing how you would expect a top talent who was the #2 overall pick to perform. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 That was a fun game. Nuggets were no match for s fully healthy Warriors. First game Curry, Draymond, and Klay have all been healthy for in quite a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 23 hours ago, seminoles1 said: Yes, it's a serious question. In a given season, age is irrelevant. If you're playing and you're the worst player that season, then end of discussion. Doesn't mean you won't get better, but it also doesn't mean you weren't awful. Ziaire Williams was the worst player in the Grizzlies rotation this season. It doesn't matter if he was the youngest. It makes sense that he's the youngest, but it doesn't change that he was straight bad. He showed glimpses and I don't think he'll continue to be the worst player, but this season he was and that can't really be argued. Lol, it's like you guys are having two different conversations. The bolded should have summed it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 23 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Age is not irrelevant though. A 25 year old being the "worst player in the league" is different than a 19 year old being the worst player in the league. A kid's body and maturity level may not be there for a lot of these players and they need time to develop. Some end up developing faster but Poole's development isn't THAT big of a surprise considering the jump he made from year 1 to year 2. @Spartica4Realthat's fair, but you can't deny there weren't people on here and just in general talking about Jalen Green being the worst player in the league at the beginning of the season and up until the ASB. That was just laughable to me. He may have been playing the worst in the league with the volume of shots he was taking and his playing time, but he was not the worst player in the league or close to that. His increased role on a bad team made him look that way but once the game started slowing down for him, he started performing how you would expect a top talent who was the #2 overall pick to perform. Most advanced stats point to Green being a bottom 10 player in the NBA over the whole season so...there is a legitimate argument that he was one of the most detrimental players in the NBA this year. You can argue that is was due to his role but he was still awful in that role. Now, a short term negative may turn out to be a long term positive. That experience now may and probably will help him down the line. Doesn't mean he wasn't garbage this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 3 hours ago, Bullet Club said: Most advanced stats point to Green being a bottom 10 player in the NBA over the whole season so...there is a legitimate argument that he was one of the most detrimental players in the NBA this year. You can argue that is was due to his role but he was still awful in that role. Now, a short term negative may turn out to be a long term positive. That experience now may and probably will help him down the line. Doesn't mean he wasn't garbage this year. That's the flaw in all of this though. He was 19 years old not playing good ball but by the end of the season he started playing much better. Young players who don't have grown man strength can struggle and Green certainly did. He ended the season much better though and if he has a good year 2, will anyone be surprised? Even with Green's struggles, he absolutely was not the worst player in the league. If he was, no way would he have been able to make the jump he did after the ASB. Worst performing player with his role? Sure, I will buy that. Worst player? Nah, he was never the worst player in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 (edited) Looking forward to another Warriors W tonight. Feel like non Warrior fans underestimated this team. Curry, Green, and Thompson together is always a Top 5 team in the NBA regardless of Durant. And Game 1 of the playoffs is the first time all three might be 100%. Curry, Green, and Thompson played through injuries all season. Also you have Poole and Wiggins making up for the Durant factor. They are both excellent. Especially Poole. This is my favorite overall Warrior team since the 2015-2016 team where they won their first title together (without Durant). The only problem with this team is the lack of a good big man. Which is why I didn’t pick us to win the NBA Finals. But if we did win the NBA Finals, I wouldn’t be surprised what so ever. Also, next year, when we have Wiseman, we should be the odds-on favorite to win the NBA Championship. Wiseman doesn’t even have to be very good, just slightly above-average. Edited April 18, 2022 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 2 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said: That's the flaw in all of this though. He was 19 years old not playing good ball but by the end of the season he started playing much better. Young players who don't have grown man strength can struggle and Green certainly did. He ended the season much better though and if he has a good year 2, will anyone be surprised? Even with Green's struggles, he absolutely was not the worst player in the league. If he was, no way would he have been able to make the jump he did after the ASB. Worst performing player with his role? Sure, I will buy that. Worst player? Nah, he was never the worst player in the league. The point is that him making a jump next year doesn't mean anything in regards to this year. He was able to become a more proficient and efficient scorer but he was still a net negative there and in virtually every other aspect of the game. You're giving him credit for unrealized potential. Let's put it this way-he was a below league average scorer and scoring is by far his best trait. All the data out there suggests that the Rockets were better without him. You admit that he may have been the worst performing player in his role in the NBA. The thing with Green is...what other role could he play? He's a bottom ten defender in the NBA. He's nothing special yet on-ball or off-ball. He's not a primary or secondary caliber playmaker. Over the totality of the season you can absolutely consider him one of the worst players in the NBA. Did he end the year as one? That's up for debate. That doesn't negate that he'd have been awful in pretty much any role you place him in this year-but if that makes him a better player down the line (and we've already seen growth) then it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: The point is that him making a jump next year doesn't mean anything in regards to this year. He was able to become a more proficient and efficient scorer but he was still a net negative there and in virtually every other aspect of the game. You're giving him credit for unrealized potential. Let's put it this way-he was a below league average scorer and scoring is by far his best trait. All the data out there suggests that the Rockets were better without him. You admit that he may have been the worst performing player in his role in the NBA. The thing with Green is...what other role could he play? He's a bottom ten defender in the NBA. He's nothing special yet on-ball or off-ball. He's not a primary or secondary caliber playmaker. Over the totality of the season you can absolutely consider him one of the worst players in the NBA. Did he end the year as one? That's up for debate. That doesn't negate that he'd have been awful in pretty much any role you place him in this year-but if that makes him a better player down the line (and we've already seen growth) then it's worth it. Jalen Green is not the worst player in the league nor was he the worst player in the league despite his early struggles. That is ridiculous. You think guys like Chiozza are better than him? Absolutely not. Again, early on he certainly was not playing good ball and had a big role so it made it even worse. Regardless if you think he was still a net negative to end the season, he averaged 21/4/3 on .583 TS% post all star break. There are FAR worst players than him. Worst player in the league includes EVERYONE on the roster, including the bench warmers. The original was on Jordan Poole and how amazing it was that he has become what he has after being the worst player in the league his rookie season. I'm saying judging 19 year olds isn't always the smartest thing to do and Poole had made a good jump from year one to year two before breaking out this season. Do some kids stay bad? Of course, but people go overboard calling guys like Green the worst players in the league. Heck, some were saying similar things about Anthony Edwards his rookie season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 i skimmed through some of these last few posts so i don't know what is being argued but being the player who has the worst overall effect on a team and being the worst player are different. like chiozza is never gonna play and even if he does he is gonna be given a role to limit his ability to affect the gm. whereas someone on okc or houston is gonna be given a lot of opportunity to affect the game so their overall badness will hurt their team more than a bad player who has a limited role Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 so like jalen green can be way better than chiozza but jalen is way worse than the usual players who are given his role so his badness in comparison to those players means he has a way more negative effect on his team than chiozza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Jalen Green is not the worst player in the league nor was he the worst player in the league despite his early struggles. That is ridiculous. You think guys like Chiozza are better than him? Absolutely not. Again, early on he certainly was not playing good ball and had a big role so it made it even worse. Regardless if you think he was still a net negative to end the season, he averaged 21/4/3 on .583 TS% post all star break. There are FAR worst players than him. Worst player in the league includes EVERYONE on the roster, including the bench warmers. The original was on Jordan Poole and how amazing it was that he has become what he has after being the worst player in the league his rookie season. I'm saying judging 19 year olds isn't always the smartest thing to do and Poole had made a good jump from year one to year two before breaking out this season. Do some kids stay bad? Of course, but people go overboard calling guys like Green the worst players in the league. Heck, some were saying similar things about Anthony Edwards his rookie season. You're getting really hung up on worst and conflating it with least talented. Fine, call it most detrimental or least valuable player instead. If you think averaging 21 ppg on slightly above average TS% for less than half the season made him a net positive player you're way out of your depth. There is more to the game then scoring and he's awful at most of it. Edited April 19, 2022 by Bullet Club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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