2022 NFL Draftstravaganza Day 1 Discussion

[Dcash4]

10 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I think DJ was the one telling his agent to find him a new home. 

I haven't seen anything come out about DJ seeking a trade. He has made some comments on twitter that really push back on the idea of negativity with "don't believe what you hear" vibe. 

Doesn't mean he can't want one or can't be trade, but feels like the writing is on the wall for Claypool. DJ is a better player right now and Pickens can easily take his spot. But the Steelers were not willing to move Washington last year, even when they refused to actually play him. So highly doubt anyone actually on the move now. 

[warfelg]

29 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I haven't seen anything come out about DJ seeking a trade. He has made some comments on twitter that really push back on the idea of negativity with "don't believe what you hear" vibe. 

Doesn't mean he can't want one or can't be trade, but feels like the writing is on the wall for Claypool. DJ is a better player right now and Pickens can easily take his spot. But the Steelers were not willing to move Washington last year, even when they refused to actually play him. So highly doubt anyone actually on the move now. 

I didn’t mean it as if he has requested one. More that I think that’s who Pickens replaces. Because if you think about it, Pickens-Claypool-Austin is actually a great fit. Pickens is your #1 type stuff. Austin is your deep threat guy. Claypool is your seam buster. Freiermuth is the middle of the field worker. That doesn’t leave much for DJ. 

[bigben07MVP]

24 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I didn’t mean it as if he has requested one. More that I think that’s who Pickens replaces. Because if you think about it, Pickens-Claypool-Austin is actually a great fit. Pickens is your #1 type stuff. Austin is your deep threat guy. Claypool is your seam buster. Freiermuth is the middle of the field worker. That doesn’t leave much for DJ. 

DJ - Pickens - Austin is more enticing to me

The idea of Claypool as a seam buster sounds nice but for whatever reason they haven’t used him that way, which I think is a huge mistake. 

Btw, did anyone notice Claypool didn’t say the position name when he announced Pickens? Say what you want but I think that was somewhat intentional.

[warfelg]

17 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

DJ - Pickens - Austin is more enticing to me

The idea of Claypool as a seam buster sounds nice but for whatever reason they haven’t used him that way, which I think is a huge mistake. 

Btw, did anyone notice Claypool didn’t say the position name when he announced Pickens? Say what you want but I think that was somewhat intentional.

They have used him that way. They did it his rookie year with a healthy Juju. I think they were really unprepared for Jujus injury last year. 

[43M]

Claypool looked beastly early on in 2020 because we used him more to his strengths.   Late in 2020 and into 2021, they werent using him as much and when they did, it wasn't very effective.    Ben's limitations and Juju's injury didnt help, but they were also trying to pound a square peg through a round hole.

I still have faith in Claypool.  Not saying he will be great, but I think he can be a decent weapon combined with everything else we have.

[Dcash4]

1 hour ago, bigben07MVP said:

Btw, did anyone notice Claypool didn’t say the position name when he announced Pickens? Say what you want but I think that was somewhat intentional.

I thought he seemed caught off guard. Like it was all fun and games then he saw it was a receiver. 

I will always err on the side of route running. It can never be too redundant. A Claypool, Pickens, Austin core scares me because who is separating on third and 6? Pickens and Austin are still just projections. I’d rather have 2/3 guys who win with routes than 2 guys that win with bodies. 

That and the contracts line up way too well. DJ gets a 3-4 year extension and if Pickens balls out, his 2nd contract hits right as DJs is done and you let him walk. 

[August4th]

its funny how we look at claypool 2nd season as a disappointed, when he nearly put up 1,000 yards playing with zombie Ben. I think he still has a high ceiling(top 20ish WR). I just hope we can find a QB for him before his rookie contract runs out and leaves in FA

[BradfordSteeler]

7 hours ago, August4th said:

its funny how we look at claypool 2nd season as a disappointed, when he nearly put up 1,000 yards playing with zombie Ben. I think he still has a high ceiling(top 20ish WR). I just hope we can find a QB for him before his rookie contract runs out and leaves in FA

I think the disappointment comes from how much potential he showed in his rookie season. After Jefferson he was arguably the most impressive rookie WR in a good class and he just didn't seem to kick on in his second year. From what Canada said in draft interviews/press conferences it sounds like they'll be playing him more in the slot this year, so hopefully that will help.

[MOSteelers56]

16 hours ago, warfelg said:

I think DJ was the one telling his agent to find him a new home. 

I'd rather have DJ than Chase. At least DJ can win outside. I'm leery of giving him huge money without seeing him with a new QB, though. 

[warfelg]

11 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I'd rather have DJ than Chase. At least DJ can win outside. I'm leery of giving him huge money without seeing him with a new QB, though. 

I’d be very leery of paying DJ. I don’t think he’s a guy that would quit on you but paying a guy with drop and mental mistakes scare me. 
 

Pickens is similar to DJ in that he’s got good burst, good route runner, but adds good hands. 
 

And I want to add that I think DJ is a fine WR. But he’s not going to be near what he’s going to be paid to be. 
 

If the choice is DJ at near $20mil with Pickens and Austin with a lesser LT/CB/ILB or Pickens, Claypool, and Austin with a better LT/CB/ILB (to near elite); give me that latter option all day long. 

[Dcash4]

4 hours ago, warfelg said:

Pickens is similar to DJ

I think Pickens better matches right now as Claypool with much, much (like, insanely better) ball skills and as a far more technically sound receiver. Replace Pickens and Claypool and I only think you get better. 

I think Pickens profiles well as a guy who could be the potential replacement at the X, but the one thing we don't know much about thanks to injuries is if his route running got much better. It's the question that needs to be answered at the pro level and we won't find out right way. 

I've harped on it for a while, but that's the key. Keep DJ to let him have a full route tree at the X, start Pickens with the Claypool rails twig, and then continue to build. Once he is ready to fully take over the X, you are moving on from DJ on C3 anyway. 

4 hours ago, warfelg said:

But he’s not going to be near what he’s going to be paid to be. 

No one really ever is, but consider that you would be paying the entire position group $24M next year and it's super palatable. That would rank 17th in the league at one of the premier position groups. Considering how we structure our deals, you are likely looking at a max 2 year agreement with DJ. If Pickens booms and DJ flops, pivot. 

4 hours ago, warfelg said:

If the choice is DJ at near $20mil with Pickens and Austin with a lesser LT/CB/ILB or Pickens, Claypool, and Austin with a better LT/CB/ILB (to near elite); give me that latter option all day long. 

I get the thought, but we are not that strapped. It's not either/or. It could be both. We are top 6 next year and top 8 in '24 for cap space in the league and money is only going up after the TV money jump. 

So with all that considered -- give me DJ who is an X today, is a better more rounded receiver, and whose contract lines up perfectly with the next guy (Pickens) to hopefully hit. 

To be fair though, the Steelers are not shipping Claypool. If they do, it's not until next year. They are not going to roll out DJ, Pickens, and Austin. But I can see them hoping Claypool explodes and then shipping him next offseason. Different circumstances, but that's what they did to Bryant. Drafted JuJu, had him stick around as the role transferred to the rookie, then sold him off. 

[warfelg]

I very much disagree on this assessment going on. Makes no sense to get a Claypool replacement 2 years early. I also find it funny that a broken down Ben is an excuse for DJ but not being said for Claypool. 
 

In the end there’s 3 years from DJ where the same issues have popped up. Claypool has a year that’s down, partially because his role changed to one that doesn’t suite him, and we’re ready to move on? Makes no sense to me. Just none. 

[bigben07MVP]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

I very much disagree on this assessment going on. Makes no sense to get a Claypool replacement 2 years early. I also find it funny that a broken down Ben is an excuse for DJ but not being said for Claypool. 
 

In the end there’s 3 years from DJ where the same issues have popped up. Claypool has a year that’s down, partially because his role changed to one that doesn’t suite him, and we’re ready to move on? Makes no sense to me. Just none. 

I don’t mean to come off as rude but anyone who watched all our games the last two season, including when Claypool was “balling” can tell that DJ is miles ahead of Chase as a WR.

Yes, I know Ben missed Chase on a ton on deep balls last year. But I don’t see how anyone could watch the two play and prefer Chase over DJ long term. Yes, DJ has concentration issues and it burned us so bad at the worst possible times. But that’s literally the only hole in his game. You fix that, and you have a top 10 alpha WR1. People forget he had the best target/drop ratio in the league until like week 14 until his brain turned to mush for some reason.

I think the Steelers FO can already tell Chase is following the path of JuJu/Martavis etc. That’s why they took Pickens. He can do everything they hoped Chase could, albeit with the same character concerns.

[Dcash4]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

Makes no sense to get a Claypool replacement 2 years early.

James Washington ——> Chase Claypool. 

It’s literally in their own recent history. 

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

I also find it funny that a broken down Ben is an excuse for DJ but not being said for Claypool. 

Who is doing this? I have no doubt Claypool could produce more, but there is also a difference between production and skill. 

What I’m saying is run back last season - same routes, same targets, same everything — switch Pickens for Claypool, you are going to get a sizable lift. The body control and ball skills dwarf CC already. Switch him for DJ and I don’t know what you get, because I don’t yet know if he has a route tree or the ability to separate in the short/intermediate consistently. 

Pickens baseline is already better than Claypool. His ceiling is top 10 guy…if he can run route and expand his route tree. But why not hedge your bets and keep the guy that CAN run routes Vs the guy that can’t when it’s so critical? 
 

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

Claypool has a year that’s down, partially because his role changed to one that doesn’t suite him, and we’re ready to move on? Makes no sense to me. Just none.

The role isn’t going to change who he is. 6’4 is a nice match up out of the slot, but it’s not gonna make him tougher at the catch point, run better routes, use his body better, separate in man, etc.

Chase has his own mental issues and had a worse drop percentage than Diontae last year. Claypool didn’t show any growth in the areas he needed to work on from year 1 to 2. It feel apart over the last 5 weeks, but can we really say DJ didn’t show tremendous growth in his weakest area last year? 

I don’t know, man. This one’s pretty simple to me. DJ is a better receiver than Claypool and does the things already at the NFL level that is the toughest to translate. To me, this wouldn’t be a hard choice. I’d rather just trade them both/ let them both walk than considering putting Chase on a C2 at this point. 

[warfelg]

I’ll just leave it at this:

Some of y’all have way too much confidence in DJ and think way more of him than you likely should. 
 

Functionally, in Canada’s offense, Pickens is much more a replacement for DJ than Claypool. Claypool is a between the numbers and hashes vertical threat with ability to run with the ball in sweeps. If there’s anyone that is in that role in the draft it’s Austin, not Pickens.