The Gnat Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, Outpost31 said: No. Lol. Sony’s stock took a hit immediately after this story broke. Oh yeah, it was my wild speculation, but it was funny to think about for a moment and talk over with co-workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) No, I’m not underrating the importance of foreign markets. Foreign markets are a studio’s guarantee that they will get their money back. Domestic is where they profit. If you had a chance to make 100 dollars in profit in two years for a 200 dollar investment where you might lose 50 dollars, you would not make that investment. Same concept with studios. They’re not throwing 200 million dollars for a 100 million dollar profit. Edited August 21, 2019 by Outpost31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 We don’t need to go through the domestic vs international box office again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Acgott said: We don’t need to go through the domestic vs international box office again I think we need to hold a seminar on it honestly. This entire sub forum needs schooling. Too many people here like Transformers, Fast and Furious and spend hard earned money supporting DC. I am willing to provide my services, but not without permission from moderators to bend a few forum rules. The kid in Whiplash doesn’t go on to become an all-time great drummer without J.K. Simmons and his methods after all. Get back to me soon. I don’t want to waste time prepping coursework if I’m gonna get the runaround. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Acgott said: We don’t need to go through the domestic vs international box office again 6 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: I think we need to hold a seminar on it honestly. This entire sub forum needs schooling. Too many people here like Transformers, Fast and Furious and spend hard earned money supporting DC. I am willing to provide my services, but not without permission from moderators to bend a few forum rules. The kid in Whiplash doesn’t go on to become an all-time great drummer without J.K. Simmons and his methods after all. Get back to me soon. I don’t want to waste time prepping coursework if I’m gonna get the runaround. I say this as someone who totally gets where you are coming from. Just provide the facts, but keep it short - and to be fair to the other side on this argument, it for sure made money. Just not at all the same as a domestic runaway winner. And leave it at that. No need for the "needs schooling" comments - that's a sure way to have ppl turn you off. I get it's frustrating to repeat, but that's how internet & social media discussions spiral into a hot mess. Like @Acgott said, we don't need to go through pages of this again. It's there for ppl to see, if anything, make the point if it's been a while, then move on. Derailing the thread for a repeat 3-4 page disagrement isn't convincing the other side, the internet isn't about convincing everyone, make your case, and then let the convo move along. If you're right, time is on your side. If you're wrong, hopefully you'll learn. If there's a new point/info, great. If there isn't, just re-state the case if it's been a while, and let it go. You're not going to convince everyone, you can only present your case with the best evidence. That's all we can ask. My 2 cents...and moving on lol. Edited August 21, 2019 by Broncofan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 But I can’t tolerate it when people can’t learn. It’s very difficult for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gnat Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 This will be taking up a bunch of time on my Marvel podcast next week. I was planning on it being about what comes out of D23, but it'll probably be split between Sony/Disney and D23 now, that might be a lot to fit into 10 minutes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Disney wanted a bump from 5% to 50%. No one would or should take that deal and just move on. Sony has leverage as well, and they are using it. I hate seeing so many people (not necessarily here) just blaming Sony for this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: Disney wanted a bump from 5% to 50%. No one would or should take that deal and just move on. Sony has leverage as well, and they are using it. I hate seeing so many people (not necessarily here) just blaming Sony for this. To be fair, though, Disney were doing all the work for 5% of the profits. Sony was footing the bill, but the success hinges on the work, not the investment. That's equally unreasonable. Here's the thing - Sony doing it on their own, given their track record, are likely to go nowhere near the heights that Disney's MCU can. Is it worth 50 percent of profits lost (and also mitigating 50 percent of the risk with MCU)? I think so, but let's say it's 40-60. What's reasonable? Given the time/effort it takes for the studios to commit resources to, there has to be a partnership. Sony gets flak because they've shown they can't operate a franchise successfully. Whether ppl want to argue 1 film's profitability, the fact remains they can't continue a series beyond 1-2 movies. That's why they are getting killed, and frankly, I get that. Sony's track record with having the franchise bog down after 1-2 movies plays a huge part of the heat, and rightfully so. They inspire zero confidence they can go it alone. I'm not absolving Disney for their greed in this - but they own the leverage in their track record, and Sony's struggles in sustaining a franchise beyond 1-2 movies. Sony is leveraging their ownership. Just that if they don't come to an agreement, Disney will be fine in the end with the MCU. Sony, on the other hand....not so sure with their ability to continue the Spideyverse on their own. Going from 5-50 percent sounds unreasonable, but keep in mind Disney is taking away 50 percent of the risk...and product-wise, they are the rainmakers who Sony can't match. In that context, I totally understand why Sony is getting the heat. Their track record is a huge part of this, and rightfully so. Edited August 21, 2019 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 41 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: But I can’t tolerate it when people can’t learn. It’s very difficult for me. And this is exactly why the talk of it should end here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Bristow Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Outpost31 said: But I can’t tolerate it when people can’t learn. It’s very difficult for me. How on earth do you spend any time on the internet then? 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Outpost31 said: Don’t think you understand the reality of fandom right now. Their last two live action Spider-Man movies bombed hard. The last X-Men movie bombed hard. Fans aren’t ****ing with stuff that’s not in the MCU. And don’t even go there with Venom. Venom made 213 million domestically. It didn’t do as well as Sony pretends it did. I’ve gone over that before. They let Disney use Spider-Man for a reason. If they made a Spider-Man movie right now not connected to the MCU and without Holland, it would Waterworld bomb. The Amazing Spiderman was a financial success. Same with the sequel. Nothing bombed, because it was Spiderman. Both were top 10 in the years they came out in terms of gross revenue. You can still make a boatload of money on brand recognition alone. Transformers got away with it for years. Venom was successful financially. Especially for the budget they were working with. No surprise a sequel is already on the way. MCU only fans aren't going to stop millions of casual people seeing the next big Spider Man movie. Especially since Holland is already riding the MCU high. Edited August 21, 2019 by PapaShogun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Outpost31 said: No. Lol. Sony’s stock took a hit immediately after this story broke. Exactly. This is going to hurt Sony a lot more than Disney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, seminoles1 said: Disney wanted a bump from 5% to 50%. No one would or should take that deal and just move on. Sony has leverage as well, and they are using it. I hate seeing so many people (not necessarily here) just blaming Sony for this. I don't blame them for walking, but they need to work out an agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, PapaShogun said: The Amazing Spiderman was a financial success.Same with the sequel. OMG, this is so wrong. MATH, IF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT: The Amazing Spider-Man 2 had a budget of 200 million dollars. HALF of a production budget is used in advertising. It spent another 100 million advertising overseas. It made 202 million at the domestic box office. It made 94 million in China. China box office gives a quarter return on a dollar. It made another 400 million overseas outside of China, which gives 40 cents return per dollar. Budget + Advertising = 400 million dollars. 202 million domestic return (not even factoring in theater takes here) 23 million from China 160 million return from other foreign markets. 202 + 23 + 160 = 385 IT LOST MONEY. IT WAS A BOMB. WHY IN THE HELL DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD LEND SPIDER-MAN TO DISNEY IF IT WAS A SUCCESS? Quote Venom was successful. Who gives a **** if it didn't do as great domestically. Studios care. That's who cares. At everybody saying we need to stop this, we cannot stop this until people understand it. I've already crunched the numbers on Venom and I'm not doing it again. It was not a success. If you can't understand that studios with annual budgets of a billion dollars consider 100 million dollars in profit a failure, you don't understand and will never understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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