NYRaider Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Just now, Bolts223 said: I stand corrected in that Nate Hobbs had a (slightly) better grade than Hayward last year, but that doesn't really change my point. Your secondary got weaker. As I said - Our secondary has been almost entirely revamped this offseason. The guys that made our secondary godawful last year (Chris Harris Jr, Trey Marshall, Tevaughn Campbell, Michael Davis, etc.) are either off the team and replaced or have been moved way down on the depth chart. We'll see, I think it's fair to assume that our young players should continue to develop. We were without Trayvon Mullen for most of the year plus Moehirg/Hobbs were both rookie starters, we also added Rock Ya-Shin. We're also still in the running to potentially sign James Bradberry. And will have over $20M in cap space to work with after June 1st, so we can still make roster additions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydFan Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 (edited) 42 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Carr literally loves to throw to guys that he trusts which is why we've seen Waller/Renfrow have over 100 catches the past few years. Be that as it may he also spreads the ball around. Has for years. And if you think Adams is going to have the same volume with the receivers we have I will make that bet with you right now. Edited May 16, 2022 by FloydFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, FloydFan said: Be that as it may he also spreads the ball around. Has for years. And if you think Adams is going to have the same volume with the receivers we have I will make that bet with you right now. Look at the years that Carr has had some talent, he clearly favors guys and gives them a heavy volume of targets. 2015: Crabtree (146 targets), Cooper (130 targets), next was Roberts with 55 2016: Crabtree (145 targets), Cooper (132 targets), next was Roberts with 77 2019: Waller (117 targets) next was rookie Renfrow with 71 2020: Waller (145 targets), Nelly (82 targets), Renfrow (77 targets), next was Jacobs with 45 2021: Renfrow (128 targets), Waller (93 targets) So in the years that he has had a talented #1 option that he trusted they've averaged 136 targets. Adams over the last 4 years has averaged 153 targets per season, I think 140-150 targets for him this year is realistic to expect. Outside of Adams, Waller, Renfrow the Raiders have basically no one that will command consistent looks. Edited May 16, 2022 by NYRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydFan Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: Look at the years that Carr has had some talent, he clearly favors guys and gives them a heavy volume of targets. 2015: Crabtree (146 targets), Cooper (130 targets), next was Roberts with 55 2016: Crabtree (145 targets), Cooper (132 targets), next was Roberts with 77 2019: Waller (117 targets) next was rookie Renfrow with 71 2020: Waller (145 targets), Nelly (82 targets), Renfrow (77 targets), next was Jacobs with 45 2021: Renfrow (128 targets), Waller (93 targets) So in the years that he has had a talented #1 option that he trusted they've averaged 136 targets. Yes I did not say he doesn’t hit his heavy targets with high attempts. Literally every QB does. I said he spreads it out, which he also does. There will be games Waller is the guy, games Renfrow is the guy. Other than 2020 where the WR core was trash those numbers prove my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 8 minutes ago, FloydFan said: Yes I did not say he doesn’t hit his heavy targets with high attempts. Literally every QB does. I said he spreads it out, which he also does. There will be games Waller is the guy, games Renfrow is the guy. Other than 2020 where the WR core was trash those numbers prove my point. I think it proves that Adams is still going to have a crazy amount of targets, so will Renfrow/Waller, everyone else will be used minimally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydFan Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I think it proves that Adams is still going to have a crazy amount of targets, so will Renfrow/Waller, everyone else will be used minimally. I just don’t think there are going to be enough to go around to be honest. Especially considering I’d imagine McDaniels will put some focus on the running game as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, FloydFan said: I just don’t think there are going to be enough to go around to be honest. Especially considering I’d imagine McDaniels will put some focus on the running game as well. We've seen McDaniels go pass heavy when he has the pieces to do it. Guys like Moss, Welker, and Gronk all had crazy productive seasons under him. I don't think you trade your first two picks and pay Adams that contract unless the plan is for him to be the focal point of the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydFan Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: We've seen McDaniels go pass heavy when he has the pieces to do it. Guys like Moss, Welker, and Gronk all had crazy productive seasons under him. I don't think you trade your first two picks and pay Adams that contract unless the plan is for him to be the focal point of the offense. You do if you think he cannot only be a focal point of the passing game, but also make defenses have to sit back and not just hone in on the run. No one is saying Adams isn’t going to get a decent amount of targets but I just think you’re sorely mistaken if you think he will match the past few on that offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 1 minute ago, FloydFan said: You do if you think he cannot only be a focal point of the passing game, but also make defenses have to sit back and not just hone in on the run. No one is saying Adams isn’t going to get a decent amount of targets but I just think you’re sorely mistaken if you think he will match the past few on that offense. FWIW the two top fantasy media outlets have Adams projected stats at 99 receptions/1,200 yards/9 TD and 110 receptions/1,350 yards/7 TD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydFan Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: FWIW the two top fantasy media outlets have Adams projected stats at 99 receptions/1,200 yards/9 TD and 110 receptions/1,350 yards/7 TD. Not worth much tbh. A hard projection to make considering we don’t even know how long it will take to rekindle chemistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, FloydFan said: Not worth much tbh. A hard projection to make considering we don’t even know how long it will take to rekindle chemistry. Adams is the best WR in the NFL that we just traded a 1st/2nd for and paid $145M. The last time that McDaniels had the best WR in the NFL he went for 1,500 yards and 23 TD. Carr to Adams is going to basically be like Carr throwing to Crabtree on steroids, McDaniels loves to throw the ball. The only years his offenses haven't been pass happy are when Brady got hurt in 2016 and over the last two seasons with Cam Newton/Mac Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydFan Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Adams is the best WR in the NFL that we just traded a 1st/2nd for and paid $145M. The last time that McDaniels had the best WR in the NFL he went for 1,500 yards and 23 TD. Carr to Adams is going to basically be like Carr throwing to Crabtree on steroids, McDaniels loves to throw the ball. The only years his offenses haven't been pass happy are when Brady got hurt in 2016 and over the last two seasons with Cam Newton/Mac Jones. Could be or it could also be a colossal disappointment like almost everything Raiders the past two decades. You honestly have no way of knowing so I don’t know why you’re acting like it’s factual and are butt hurt over a difference of opinion. I hope they do go all out and break records but I’m being cautiously optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Just now, FloydFan said: Could be or it could also be a colossal disappointment like almost everything Raiders the past two decades. You honestly have no way of knowing so I don’t know why you’re acting like it’s factual and are butt hurt over a difference of opinion. I hope they do go all out and break records but I’m being cautiously optimistic. When have the Raiders acquired an All-Pro player in his prime in the last two decades? If Adams suddenly falls off of a cliff after being the most productive WR in the league for half a decade that means the team is probably screwed for the next half a decade at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydFan Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: When have the Raiders acquired an All-Pro player in his prime in the last two decades? If Adams suddenly falls off of a cliff after being the most productive WR in the league for half a decade that means the team is probably screwed for the next half a decade at least. Randy Moss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Just now, FloydFan said: Randy Moss? Moss had 1,000 yards on a 4-12 team with Kerry Collins at QB. But hey, I agree with you, Adams probably won't produce and we won't be very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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