2023 CFB Talk/Draft Prospects

[DreamKid]

This is a good way to highlight the issues with the consensus Top 5 of this WR class(JSN, Addison, Flowers, Johnston, Hyatt)-

The only WRs who don't have questions about their hands: JSN, Hyatt

The only WR who doesn't have questions about their deep speed: Hyatt, Johnston

The only WRs who don't have questions about their route running: JSN, Addison, Flowers

The only WRs who don't have questions about their size: JSN, Johnston

The only WRs who don't have questions about their ability to produce/play on the boundary: Johnston, Hyatt

The only WRs who don't have questions about their twitch/explosiveness: Flowers, Johnston 

 

Essentially any category you can think up besides tracking and character will only have 1 or 2 names in it. It's just not a strong crop of prospects. 

[DreamKid]

Some draft questions for the forum:

1. Would anyone be against us picking Jalen Carter if he fell to our pick?

2. Would you trade up for a CB in Round 1 or up into the 2nd from the 3rd for a WR?

3. Would you draft a starting talent at Tackle/Guard first or another EDGE piece?

4. With both Madubuike and Washington on the last year of their Rookie deal, how high would you be willing to take a DI?

5. Is a BPA selection of Brian Branch acceptable with the redundancies between he and Kyle Hamilton's game?

6. If it was assured to you that Dobbins would not be with the team next year, could you tolerate a BPA selection of Bijan Robinson?

7. Would you be happy with a potential Patrick Queen trade if it meant that 2nd or 3rd Round pick would be spent on an immediate replacement at WILB?

8. Despite the Todd Monken connection, do Stetson Bennett's off field issues force the club to avoid him(even as a UDFA)?

9. With so few picks in the draft, would you be comfortable with the club pretty clearly 'losing' in a trade down scenario if it meant acquiring more selections?

10. Who is your most desired player at 22?

 

[DreamKid]

 

[diamondbull424]

19 hours ago, DreamKid said:

The only WRs who don't have questions about their hands: JSN, Hyatt

Not sure if this is just based off of advanced stats or not, but Hyatt has questionable hands IMO. Went through the gauntlet overly slow, looking every ball in to the max, and still dropped a ball. So along with playing in such a protected offense, where he never sees contested catches, I’ve got legitimate questions.

Whereas conversely the hand issues with Addison and Flowers were more in the sense that they either saw so many targets that many balls were off target and they couldn’t fully get them, that they were catching in heavy traffic consistently as the teams legitimately only threat, or that they were in playmaking mold and didn’t completely concentrated on securing the catch as they went to make moves upfield.

I certainly see your point though about concerns persisting everywhere… and my admission about Hyatt certainly doesn’t help the point.

19 hours ago, DreamKid said:

The only WR who doesn't have questions about their deep speed: Hyatt, Johnston

I’d remove Johnston from this list after he ran a 4.5 at his pro day. There were already some, I believe Steve Smith being one, questioning how he could look fast on one play and then slow on another. His pro day sort of introduced some additional concerns on that front IMO.

19 hours ago, DreamKid said:

The only WRs who don't have questions about their route running: JSN, Addison, Flowers

Agreed. Addison could stand to improve a few things within his routes, but overall he’s highly advanced. Same with Flowers.

19 hours ago, DreamKid said:

The only WRs who don't have questions about their ability to produce/play on the boundary: Johnston, Hyatt

This is actually one of Hyatt’s biggest question marks. That gimmicky Vols offense rarely had him as the boundary option and thus he rarely ever saw press coverage in his career to show how he can handle that at the next level. That along with his slight frame makes it a legit concern considering his position ranking.

19 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Essentially any category you can think up besides tracking and character will only have 1 or 2 names in it. It's just not a strong crop of prospects. 

Agreed this class has tons of landmines. That said, I think that’s true of this class overall. I’m looking at some of the other draft talents and there’s a lot of inconsistencies overall.

For example, the corners IMO aren’t quite as great as propped up to be. Some really good corners and from CB1-CB10, I’m not seeing huge bust material, but I’m also not seeing anyone that’s an obvious All Pro outside of maybe Christian Gonzalez.

[DreamKid]

2 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Not sure if this is just based off of advanced stats or not, but Hyatt has questionable hands IMO. Went through the gauntlet overly slow, looking every ball in to the max, and still dropped a ball. So along with playing in such a protected offense, where he never sees contested catches, I’ve got legitimate questions.

I can't knock a player for a flaw he didn't show on tape, wouldn't be fair. Hyatt extends away from his body naturally, tracks well, and had no issues with drops.

Hyatt caught 3/5 of his contested opportunities, and Addison caught 2/9. Hyatt was also going against early round SEC CBs like Cam Smith, Brian Branch, etc.

I didn't just base the categories/rankings off my own thoughts either, went with the consensus evaluations of the players to paint a more general picture of the landscape for forum dwellers who aren't crazy into the draft or prospects this year. 

3 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

I’d remove Johnston from this list after he ran a 4.5 at his pro day. There were already some, I believe Steve Smith being one, questioning how he could look fast on one play and then slow on another. His pro day sort of introduced some additional concerns on that front IMO.

I considered just putting Hyatt, but a majority of pundits see QJ as a viable deep threat and I think you can see it on tape. He's hit 21 MPH+ on GPS tracking, doesn't really get caught from behind, and frequently shakes loose off extra gear in 3rd level. 

Agree that a sub 4.5 would make everyone feel more comfortable, and I'm not a big QJ guy myself, but that's kind of what this WR class is all about- making everyone uncomfortable.

3 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

This is actually one of Hyatt’s biggest question marks. That gimmicky Vols offense rarely had him as the boundary option and thus he rarely ever saw press coverage in his career to show how he can handle that at the next level. That along with his slight frame makes it a legit concern considering his position ranking.

Yea, I factored that in. Certainly considered leaving him off and wouldn't knock anyone who did. Came down to me seeing more questions about him vs press and not him projecting to the boundary in general. Some of the other guys won't even get a shot at playing outside, Hyatt will. Teams want his speed pulling defenders to one side of the field. 

The problem I have with the Tenn offense conversation is too many people act like other top WRs aren't benefiting from free releases as well. The Vols carried the concepts to the extreme but outside of guys like Jamarr Chase you won't find a recent 1st Round WR who didn't operate out of the slot a significant % of the time to benefit from free releases- it's just what OCs are doing now. 

This play from Jameson Williams(12th overall pick from last year's class) perfectly illustrates my point-

Free release out of the slot vs SEC competition, receives pass from future NFL QB, untouched, splits the Safeties for a TD.....  Things Hyatt did better than anyone.

Does anyone think Hyatt couldn't make the same exact play in that non 'gimmick' offense that Bama runs?.....  

Hyatt probably started out getting too much hype(5TDs vs Bama will do that) but now the conversation surrounding him has just grown silly and he's officially underrated imo. 

[DreamKid]

 

 

[coordinator0]

https://walterfootball.com/prospectMeetings/byteam

Private (30) visits reported thus far:

Jordan Addison, Wide Receiver, USC (PRI)
Julius Brents^, Cornerback, Kansas State (COM, PRI)
Ji'Ayir Brown, Safety, Penn State (PRI)
Ronnie Brown, Running Back, Shepherd (PRI)
Amari Burney, Inside Linebacker, Florida (PRI)
Sean Clifford, Quarterback, Penn State (PRI)
Gervon Dexter, Defensive Tackle, Florida (PRI)
Jaelyn Duncan, Offensive Tackle, Maryland (PRI)
David Durden^, Wide Receiver, Western Carolina (PRI, LOC)
Zay Flowers, Wide Receiver, Boston College (PRI)
Emmanuel Forbes, Cornerback, Mississippi State (PRI)
Quentin Johnston^, Wide Receiver, TCU (COM, PRI)
DeWayne McBride, Running Back, UAB (PRI)
Jonathan Mingo^, Wide Receiver, Ole Miss (COM, PRI)
Myles Murphy, Defensive End, Clemson (PRI)
Joey Porter Jr., Cornerback, Penn State (PRI)
Anthony Richardson^, Quarterback, Florida (COM, PRI)
Cam Smith, Cornerback, South Carolina (PRI)
Nolan Smith, Outside Linebacker, Georgia (PRI)
Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Wide Receiver, Ohio State (PRI)
Tyrique Stevenson, Cornerback, Miami (PRI)
Cory Trice, Cornerback, Purdue (PRI)
Keion White, Defensive End, Georgia Tech (PRI)
Owen Wright, Running Back, Monmouth (NJ) (PRI)
Chandler Zavala, Offensive Guard, N.C. State (PRI)

 

Cam Smith would make 25. Seems like a lot more names than we usually hear about for the Ravens visits. Looks like they've had in most of the top WR prospects as well. Hyatt being the main one missing (or unreported). 

[DreamKid]

@diamondbull424 

 

[DreamKid]

If we make a pick in the 1st Round, there's a 99% chance it will be one of these players-

HB: Bijan Robinson

WR: Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Jordan Addison, Zay Flowers, Quentin Johnston, Jalin Hyatt

T: Paris Johnson Jr., Anton Harrison

T/G: Peter Skoronski, Broderick Jones, Darnell Wright

G: O'Cyrus Torrence

DI: Jalen Carter, Bryan Bresee, Calijah Kancey, Mazi Smith

EDGE: Nolan Smith, Lukas Van Ness, Myles Murphy

CB: Joey Porter Jr, Deonte Banks, Cam Smith, Emmanuel Forbes

CB/S: Brian Branch

 

Of all these names I think a pick of Myles Murphy would suck the most, even over a Bijan Robinson selection. The other two guys at EDGE at least have some special utility in that Nolan Smith can play SAM and LVN can kick inside. Murphy to this point is just a sub par CFB pass rusher who profiles as the next Clelin Ferrell more than anything else.

I wouldn't be thrilled with a DI pick either, in terms of talent or value. Carter I'd be cool with out of sheer BPA, but I don't see him getting out of the Top 10 even with the character concerns. Bresee was an awesome HS prospect, probably my favorite tape + personality combo that I've seen from a top recruit, but his projection to the NFL is a little boom/bust. Kancey is too much of an outlier, he's not and will never be Aaron Donald- he's just a severely undersized interior player. All in all I guess I just don't see the point in selecting a 1st Round DI when we've assembled a stellar unit made up of 3rd Round or later picks and Vets. I trust the FO to identify capable talent along the interior later on in the draft.

OL still feels slept on by the fanbase. Right side of the line is getting old, no incumbent at LG, Stanley is likely one serious injury away from wanting to retire, and we have a young upside piece in Linderbaum to build around. Also, with the Lamar extension looming the FO will prioritize his protection/health even more.

[Ray Reed]

This is maybe the least i’ve known about a draft since 2004ish. I have some work to do this next week

[coordinator0]

1 hour ago, DreamKid said:

OL still feels slept on by the fanbase. Right side of the line is getting old, no incumbent at LG, Stanley is likely one serious injury away from wanting to retire, and we have a young upside piece in Linderbaum to build around. Also, with the Lamar extension looming the FO will prioritize his protection/health even more.

Agreed. I think the main thing here is at 22 there probably won't be a real obvious option at OL that would be a better pick and/or value than cornerback or one of the other more talked about options. But if the Ravens move back a ways from 22 then that opens up a lot of options for offensive line picks.

Another thing to consider with the offensive line is what direction Monken wants to take it. I would imagine he's going to change at least some things schematically. What happens at left guard will be interesting. I'm always of the opinion that the best player should play and right now that would be Mekari. In this situation I don't care about his versatility. Get the best blockers out there playing the whole game. That would be the play to get a mobile and athletic left side of the line going.

But if Monken wants to get more size and power next to Linderbaum then all bets are off. I don't think Cleveland has any real chance unless he takes a huge step forward this summer and Faalele most likely isn't going to ever play guard. That would be a pretty big hole on offense that isn't getting as much attention as it should. 

[DreamKid]

41 minutes ago, coordinator0 said:

But if Monken wants to get more size and power next to Linderbaum then all bets are off. I don't think Cleveland has any real chance unless he takes a huge step forward this summer and Faalele most likely isn't going to ever play guard. That would be a pretty big hole on offense that isn't getting as much attention as it should. 

I think Ben Cleveland has work ethic issues, similar to Orlando Brown Jr., his inability to finish the Ravens conditioning test last year was embarrassing. He did however show improved play when given the opportunity last season, particularly while he was at RG. 

Ben probably has a good amount more natural talent/ability than Powers did, but if he doesn't apply himself to reaching his ceiling... what does it matter? I don't trust him and he hasn't earned the right to just step into that LG spot. It seems like we're gearing up for another strong run and at key spots like OL we can't fall into the trap of 'settling' for ultimately unproven options already on the roster. Luckily, Todd Monken had Ben Cleveland during his first year at Georgia and should be familiar with his game. That connection might also make Ben work a little harder, if seeing the payday Ben Powers got wasn't enough motivation for him.

Faalele playing guard is definitely not something I see being on the table. He's already new-ish to football and throwing a possible conversion at him isn't worth it. Let him continue to grow at RT and see what he turns into.

1 hour ago, coordinator0 said:

I think the main thing here is at 22 there probably won't be a real obvious option at OL that would be a better pick and/or value than cornerback or one of the other more talked about options. But if the Ravens move back a ways from 22 then that opens up a lot of options for offensive line picks.

If they go OL in the early 20s it's probably going to be for a Tackle they had really high on their board that can play LG Day 1 and then take over for Moses at RT the following season. If they trade down, then I think that opens up the chances of them picking a pure guard like O'Cyrus Torrence at the end of the 1st or Steve Avila in the 2nd- two options that typically fit what the Ravens look for in an IOL.

[DreamKid]

I am worried the Ravens might not be able to trade down this year. By all accounts it seems like this class is short on 1st Round graded talent, so at 22 it's a little iffy that some team picking reasonably close to us would have some player they'd want enough to toss a valuable pick or two our way.

Our best bet would be someone wanting to jump the Vikings at 23 for Hendon Hooker, if the rumor about them liking him is true. We might get a nice little desperation haul in that scenario.

I'm also concerned that with our needs being so transparent we'll have teams jumping us with trades once again. Last year we had idiotic leapfrog trades for guys other clubs thought we wanted like Jordan Davis, John Metchie, and Christian Harris. Each time it just helped us come away with a better player though. I don't see us being as lucky this year. So I hope that doesn't happen.

[Ray Reed]

8 hours ago, DreamKid said:

I am worried the Ravens might not be able to trade down this year. By all accounts it seems like this class is short on 1st Round graded talent, so at 22 it's a little iffy that some team picking reasonably close to us would have some player they'd want enough to toss a valuable pick or two our way.

Our best bet would be someone wanting to jump the Vikings at 23 for Hendon Hooker, if the rumor about them liking him is true. We might get a nice little desperation haul in that scenario.

I'm also concerned that with our needs being so transparent we'll have teams jumping us with trades once again. Last year we had idiotic leapfrog trades for guys other clubs thought we wanted like Jordan Davis, John Metchie, and Christian Harris. Each time it just helped us come away with a better player though. I don't see us being as lucky this year. So I hope that doesn't happen.

I've been hearing talk that the supply of teams wanting to trade down is so much more than the demand of teams wanting to trade up and that it legit may only cost a team a 4th or so to move up 5-7ish spots in the first round once we get to about picks ~18-28ish. Definitely going to be hard to find a partner to tango with if we want to trade down and get any sort of reasonable capital

[DreamKid]