2023 CFB Talk/Draft Prospects

[DreamKid]

3 hours ago, RavensTillIDie said:

Well, when you put it that away, maybe I am not longer interested in Quentin Johnston in the 1st....

I'm not a big QJ guy, not playing to his size and refusing to make catches outside his frame are legitimate criticisms of his game, but here's some context on those numbers-

 

[DreamKid]

How awesome would this be?-

22: Deonte Banks

86: Marvin Mims/Tyler Scott

 

Won't happen, but god would that be sick. 

[DreamKid]

 

[diamondbull424]

5 hours ago, DreamKid said:

How awesome would this be?-

22: Deonte Banks

86: Marvin Mims/Tyler Scott

 

Won't happen, but god would that be sick. 

Maybe not at 86, but with the 2nd round pick we get from trading Patrick Queen, they’re going to get my boy Marvin Mims Jr.

I’m speaking it into existence. That said, I’m not sure about Deonte Banks, I’ve got to watch his tape still. Still confused as to how he went from like the 3rd best UMD corner to 1st round pick.

If he’s traits guy then I’m not sure I want to go that route considering we’ve got JAD already plus Brandon Stephens as our two traits guys in need of development. If we go corner I’d rather go for someone that is developed. Not saying that isn’t Banks, just speaking towards the kind of prospect I’d most prefer.

[DreamKid]

5 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Maybe not at 86, but with the 2nd round pick we get from trading Patrick Queen, they’re going to get my boy Marvin Mims Jr.

Yea, it's essentially impossible any WR prospect we like will be available at 86- including Mims or Scott. Having no 2nd, as always, sucks.

8 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

That said, I’m not sure about Deonte Banks, I’ve got to watch his tape still. Still confused as to how he went from like the 3rd best UMD corner to 1st round pick.

If he’s traits guy then I’m not sure I want to go that route considering we’ve got JAD already plus Brandon Stephens as our two traits guys in need of development. If we go corner I’d rather go for someone that is developed. Not saying that isn’t Banks, just speaking towards the kind of prospect I’d most prefer.

Banks is a traits guy, but he also has plus tape. The film community was pushing him before he hit the combine. He also started as a true freshman, so he's not a guy that just popped up. Seems like injuries slowed his hype a bit.

A to Z Sports does a good job breaking him down(other prospects as well), and he put out this video pre combine so you have any possible testing bias removed-

 

[diamondbull424]

This is the weirdest, least exciting draft I can truly recall. So weird the draft is so close and yet I’m just like meh.

Also when it comes to MD prospects, I’d much rather go with Addison than Banks… I just feel Addison has the mentality we’re looking for, the production, and the profile. He’s a double at a position that we struggle to get on base with.

If both JSN or Addison are gone, I’m trading out- even if it’s for peanuts.

[DreamKid]

On 4/6/2023 at 11:47 AM, diamondbull424 said:

I just feel Addison has the mentality we’re looking for, the production, and the profile. He’s a double at a position that we struggle to get on base with.

Two plays where I can't help but think of Derrick Mason when watching Addison(There's a third as well, but I couldn't find it)-

The concentration, tracking, and hands are obviously +, but it's that weird and slippery contact balance for a smaller receiver that just reminds me of ol' Mason magic. We got Derrick on the tail end of his career and still we saw him create against guys who were bigger and faster than him because of his natural feel for the game, toughness, and after the catch magic.

 

Mason-

 

[ravens5520]

Zay Flowers getting the hype train this weekend. I really think Flowers & JSN will be off the board mid teens. Leaving us with Addison or other position

It’s either Addison or trade back for me

[DreamKid]

14 minutes ago, ravens5520 said:

Zay Flowers getting the hype train this weekend. I really think Flowers & JSN will be off the board mid teens. Leaving us with Addison or other position

It’s either Addison or trade back for me

I'm Addison, Banks, or trade back. 

If we do trade back, I'd be fine getting out of the 1st Round entirely for the right compensation too. 

[wackywabbit]

I'm in on Zay Flowers. I see the path to him panning out as a top receiver on a team. However this team doesn't usually do things I agree with at receiver (drafting Hollywood Brown being an exception) so I think I'd "predict" that they be more likely to favor Quentin Johnston.

[goldfishwars]

Hi guys - be great to have your votes with Baltimore OTC

 

[coordinator0]

It's tough to pinpoint one prospect in that situation. I think trading down (if an offer comes through) would be by far the most likely option, but for the purposes of this exercise... Quentin Johnston. Swing for the fences in a spot without a clear BPA near a position of need. It was close between him and Cam Smith though. I think the latter is a CB prospect that the Ravens would be pretty high on. 

[diamondbull424]

Tier One = 1+ All Pro Expected
- N/A

Tier Two = 4+ Pro Bowls Expected
1) Jaxon Smith Njigba
6’0 1/2”, 196 lbs, 30 1/2” arms, 9” hands
4.52s, 6.57 cone, 3.93 shuttle
35” VJ
- While acknowledged as an elite slot, JSN has separation skills, the ability to defeat press, and the requisite speed to also be used on the boundary. 

JSN is a matchup nightmare due to his innate football instincts, IQ, and oily hips that allows him to consistently find the soft spots in zone, to sell routes that get defenders off balance, and create separation at the top of his routes. His game is incredibly nuanced and while he’s not an explosive athlete, he knows how to vary his speed to make guessing his routes incredibly challenging for defenders. With an elite QB, I could see fringe HOF potential with him.
Pro Scale: Reggie Wayne, 6’0”, 198 lbs
Van Jefferson -> Reggie Wayne
On a scale between Jefferson as his floor and Wayne as his ceiling, I anticipate JSN falls much closer to Wayne. I’m incredibly confident in his playmaking skill set translating into a very strong, consistent, and relied upon WR option.
 

Tier Three = 1-4 Pro Bowls Expected
2) Jordan Addison
5’11”, 173 lbs, 30 7/8” arms, 8 3/4” hands
4.49s-1.56 ten, 7.05 cone, 4.19 shuttle
34” VJ
Age, production, and clutchness is enough for me to rank Addison at the top of this tier. Whenever both USC and Pitt needed big plays, Addison made those plays. Addison is a great but not elite route runner, he can still afford to improve using his upper body to sell his routes more firmly and attack defender leverage to get them even more off balance, but he’s high level, and pro ready nonetheless.

In addition to route ability, Addison shows tremendous passion for the game; from being a committed blocker in the run game, to his penchant to attack balls to make his QB right, regardless of the ball placement. Addison’s ball skills, propped up by his elite reaction time, mitigates any major concern regarding his size and average explosive numbers that would normally foreshadow a subpar catch radius.

That said size concerns with Addison aren’t easy to shake, he’s got a svelte frame and that does increase the durability concerns.
Pro Scale: Diontae Johnson, 5’10”, 183 lbs
Dionte Johnson <- Isaac Bruce
Addison had a higher drop% at Pitt similar to Johnson with the Steelers, however he improved upon that weakness at USC. Similar to both Bruce and Johnson, Addison is svelte in frame, but brings to the table great route running and playmaking ability. While the floor as Johnson seems most probable, Addison’s passion and chip on his shoulder wouldn’t completely surprise me if it led to something more special as a finished career product.

3) Zay Flowers
5’9”, 182 lbs, 29 1/4” arms, 9 1/4” hands
4.42s-1.53 ten, DNP cone, DNP shuttle
35.5” VJ
- Watching the tape, Flowers has impressed me slightly more than the others in this tier as he’s the best combination between explosiveness, strong route running, speed, and playmaking. After further review, the hands with Zay aren’t a problem, poorly placed balls and concentration drops are his issue. Like many great WRs in the past, he was able to elevate past horrific QB play and turn that into great production.
Pro Scale: Randall Cobb, 5’10”, 191 lbs
Randall Cobb <- Antonio Brown
It’s very much a statistical improbability for Flowers to become the next AB, especially when we consider that AB is both taller and longer. Flowers is further along in his development than a young AB to his credit. That said, I think more realistically he settles somewhere closer to a Randall Cobb from a career and production standpoint.

4) Marvin Mims
5’11, 183 lbs, 31 5/8” arms, 9” hands
4.38s-1.53 ten, 6.9 cone, DNP shuttle
39.5” VJ
- Air Raid offense experience. Very reliable draft profile from athleticism to breakout age to collegiate production to his YPC numbers. Route running nuance isn’t quite the level of the two above him, however he’s the fastest and youngest of the bunch.
Pro Scale: Emmanuel Sanders, 5’11, 186 lbs
Darnell Mooney -> Emmanuel Sanders
Mims has similar size, explosiveness, versatility within the intermediate and deep routes that reminds me of Sanders some. I also compared him to the 4.3 version of Jaylen Waddle very early in the process due to the way he similarly attacks the ball at its highest point.

5a) Quentin Johnston
6’2 1/2”, 208 lbs, 33 5/8” arms, 9 5/8” hands
4.49s, DNP cone, DNP shuttle, 40.5” VJ
- Johnston at his size does a great job with dropping his hips to stop on a dime, however his releases, and his route nuance still leaves a lot to be desired.

In addition his hands are body catch and sometimes double catch central. As he’s a tall, explosive, deep threat and not a catch in traffic guy, that’s not quite as problematic. Between his quality size, freaks list worthy athleticism, and tackle breaking ability that lends him to being someone that if he can develop could be a serious force.
Pro Scale: Torrey Smith, 6’0” 205 lbs
Denzel Mims <-> Demaryius Thomas
An early career Torrey Smith is probably the most realistic idea of what to expect from Johnston, however he’s got more leg power to break tackles and create YAC while Torrey wasn’t quite as strong to be as much a force as a broken tackle warrior. Though Torrey had the more elite hamstrings.

5b) Jalin Hyatt
6’0”, 176 lbs, 32 1/2” arms, 9” hands
4.4s-1.5s ten, 7.06 cone, 4.33 shuttle, 40” VJ
- Hyatt looks faster on tape than in shorts and players with elite speed and tracking ability will always have a place in the NFL and can create tremendous impact. Hyatt still has much he needs to develop and improve upon, however his one trick is a good one to have. I don’t think his hips will ever be oily enough to allow him to be a true route running savant, however his speed is dangerous enough that he can perhaps use that strength to his advantage when disguising his routes.

Hyatt’s slight frame does leave durability concerns. However as a deep threat, one has to hope that Hyatt shouldn’t see quite as many big hits.
Pro Scale: Will Fuller, 6’0” 186 lbs
Dyami Brown <-> DeSean Jackson
Fuller’s career was cut short due to durability concerns, however when he was actually on the field he delivered with high impact pretty consistently. Hyatt hasn’t timed quite the same, but his speed in game looks low to mid 4.3 and he’s got tremendous length that could see him add an extra element. Yet also similar to Will Fuller, durability could be a career deterrent.
 

Tier Four = PB Potential
7) Michael Wilson
6’2”, 213 lbs, 31” arms, 9 3/4” hands
4.58s- 1.53s ten, 6.81s cone, 4.17s shuttle
37.5” VJ, 23 reps
- Newcomer to the list is Wilson, his body type and play style would be the PERFECT compliment to Lamar’s game and he’d be a perfect fit as a Raven. Wilson has awesome quickness that allows him to escape within a phone booth, yet is built like a Roman gladiator. He plays with strong hands, nuanced route running, physicality at the catch point, tackle breaking ability, etc.

Yet he’s not in the above tier and perhaps near the top of the above tier strictly because a) he’s an older prospect (he does have a good breakout age) and because he’s shown tremendous durability issues. Yet the same was true for DK Metcalf coming out, so if he ever can stay healthy, he could potentially be a steal.
Pro Scale: Bryan Edwards <-> Anquan Boldin
Physical, smart, impact WR option that makes soft corners pay with his strength/physicality and large corners have issues with his quickness- these were all traits Anquan Boldin brought to the table.

8) Josh Downs
5’9”, 171 lbs, 30 3/8” arms, 9 1/4” hands
4.48 forty, 1.49 ten, 6.75s cone, 4.15s shuttle
38.5” VJ
- Hands, route running, excellent feel for zones, all of those boxes are checked off. Not quite as fast on tape or in shorts as you’d want. Doesn’t manipulate defender leverage as good as a similarly small Flowers above.

Yet he’s got tons of production, agility, and spring that makes you think there’s potential to become a PB option moving forward. However historical 
Pro Scale: Tylan Wallace <-> Tyler Lockett
Similar to Lockett, Downs is an undersized explosive mover. He’s going to present top shelf movement skills and that makes him a threat, however his lack of deep speed and physicality makes him a question mark. He’s going to be a very good player, however I have too many questions to place him on the above tier.

9) Rakim Jarrett
6’0” 192 lbs, 31 3/8” arms, 
4.44 forty, 1.51 ten, 35.5” vert, 13 reps
- You still have to like Jarrett’s potential as he’s explosive, athletic, versatile in how he can be utilized. However he’s an older prospect than his junior status would suggest. His breakout age wasn’t quite the same as expected along that front as well. He’s the same age as Zay Flowers, only while Flowers uplifted bad QB play and continued to improve in his collegiate career, Jarrett stagnated in his craft and would be reliant upon strong coaching to unlock his potential.
Pro Scale: Steve Smith(NYG) <-> Terry McLaurin
Good program player, less than productive collegiately, yet has the athletic traits that make you believe he can succeed at the next level with the right opportunity and/or coaching.

10) Kayshon Boutte
6’0” 192 lbs, 31 3/8” arms, 
4.5s-1.58s ten, 7.08 cone, 4.25 shuttle, 29” VJ
The epitome of a boom or bust player. Had an ankle injury the previous season and perhaps that prevented him from truly being able to train to reach peak performance, however the fact that his offseason went the way it did and he was foolish enough to not compete in certain events that would put him in a less favorable light, along with his combine interview, has me doubt his intelligence. Now I say that, fully being on board with competing at the combine, however to test the way he did simply tells me he was not ready.
Pro Scale:  UDFA <-> Golden Tate
Has some similarities in his game to Golden Tate coming out. Both players had the ability to get YAC and create big plays, while also being athletic enough, physical enough, and quality enough in routes to be versatile.

Tier Four = Solid Starter, Unlikely PB Output

10) Nathaniel Dell 
- Productive, great routes at senior bowl, solid athleticism, very small.

11) AT Perry 
- Long smooth athlete that produces. But he’s old, will be roughly 24 when the season starts. He is likely to be what he is at this point.

12) Dontayvion Wicks
- Taller, quality size WR that based off his 2021 tape may have been a day two selection. He’s got the size and potential to make a quality impact on a team.

13) Parker Washington
- Tackle breaking ability, physical, nice hands, great breakout age, durability issues, routes need work, still young with potential. Durability is an issue however.

14) Cedric Tillman
- Powerful strong, big, WO option that I think is intriguing, but find to be a little overrated due to SEC production.

15) Jonathan Mingo
- Possesses the athleticism, potential, and quality route running at the senior bowl that has me intrigued by him. Yet he never produced collegiately to the level requisite believing in those physical traits. Would rather go with many other options before going with him.

16) Rashee Rice
- Started higher on him, senior bowl showed weakness separating. Rice has produced, but was a late bloomer. Athleticism is just average.

[diamondbull424]

Whelp… scouting all those WRs now feels like a giant waste of time.😅

Granted OBJ is only on a one year deal, but unless the team is truly looking to overwhelm the position, you have to think all the tier three players will be gone by the third round.

That said, it’s only a one year deal, so a player like Michael Wilson IMO would be a great compliment to our WR room and could be had at a time in the draft, day 3, where the value would make the most sense.

Looks like now I need to devote more time to analyzing the CB and edge class. I truly believe though that if Nolan Smith is there, there’s a strong chance he could be the selection.

[diamondbull424]

6 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Tier Four = PB Potential
7) Michael Wilson
6’2”, 213 lbs, 31” arms, 9 3/4” hands
4.58s- 1.53s ten, 6.81s cone, 4.17s shuttle
37.5” VJ, 23 reps
- Newcomer to the list is Wilson, his body type and play style would be the PERFECT compliment to Lamar’s game and he’d be a perfect fit as a Raven. Wilson has awesome quickness that allows him to escape within a phone booth, yet is built like a Roman gladiator. He plays with strong hands, nuanced route running, physicality at the catch point, tackle breaking ability, etc.

Yet he’s not in the above tier and perhaps near the top of the above tier strictly because a) he’s an older prospect (he does have a good breakout age) and because he’s shown tremendous durability issues. Yet the same was true for DK Metcalf coming out, so if he ever can stay healthy, he could potentially be a steal.
Pro Scale: Bryan Edwards <-> Anquan Boldin
Physical, smart, impact WR option that makes soft corners pay with his strength/physicality and large corners have issues with his quickness- these were all traits Anquan Boldin brought to the table.

TJ Housh trains him, that’s interesting. Also Keenan Allen is interesting as well. That could be a similar comp, but his physicality added to his precision for sure reminds me of guys like Boldin and Eric Decker. He definitely plays like a Raven, he’s who I think we need to target in the 3rd round for sure.