ET80 Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 Just now, MWil23 said: Plus the NFLPA absolutely has a point and precedents with Kraft and Snyder. Snyder is arguably a predator even above Watson, Kraft had criminal charges, not civil. Don’t get me wrong I loathe Watson but the hypocrisy here is clear as day. While I understand it - what's a similar recoursing option here? How would you "suspend" an owner? What, they can't sit in the box for a season? Can't sign checks? Does their team revenue go back to the rest of the owners, or TV networks, or charity? Punishment to players is straightforward because it's directly tied to getting on the field. The only way to punish an owner is a nuclear option - completely banished from the NFL. Not opposed to it, and we've seen it happen with Jerry Richardson. Is that the precedence that the NFLPA and Watson want to lean on? That punishment should be banishment? Because there's an example of it in plain sight, one of the interested teams in Watson just went through with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Just now, ET80 said: While I understand it - what's a similar recoursing option here? How would you "suspend" an owner? What, they can't sit in the box for a season? Can't sign checks? Does their team revenue go back to the rest of the owners, or TV networks, or charity? Punishment to players is straightforward because it's directly tied to getting on the field. The only way to punish an owner is a nuclear option - completely banished from the NFL. Not opposed to it, and we've seen it happen with Jerry Richardson. Is that the precedence that the NFLPA and Watson want to lean on? That punishment should be banishment? Because there's an example of it in plain sight, one of the interested teams in Watson just went through with it. And a $10 million fine isn’t proportional at all, especially if it’s a “future suspension” that could be over $40 million for Watson. Where was the “future” for Snyder? Where was Kraft’s punishment? He was caught criminally getting what Watson has been accused of and wasn’t found guilty under the personal conduct policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 I bet on a year and them considering last year as paid administrative leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 12 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Plus the NFLPA absolutely has a point and precedents with Kraft and Snyder. Snyder is arguably a predator even above Watson, Kraft had criminal charges, not civil. Don’t get me wrong I loathe Watson but the hypocrisy here is clear as day. I agree in principle. Not sure what language is in the CBA for conduct by the players ( NFLPA) and the NFL (owners). The CBA is the foundation that provides the league to levy disciplinary action against players. If no language exists regarding conduct by the owners ( NFL), not sure what " legal" foundation the NFLPA has to push an argument against Snyder/Kraft/Jones, etc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, squire12 said: I agree in principle. Not sure what language is in the CBA for conduct by the players ( NFLPA) and the NFL (owners). The CBA is the foundation that provides the league to levy disciplinary action against players. If no language exists regarding conduct by the owners ( NFL), not sure what " legal" foundation the NFLPA has to push an argument against Snyder/Kraft/Jones, etc https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-confirms-robert-kraft-suspension-fine-could-be-coming-based-on-outcome-of-legal-process/amp/ This stands out: ”Our Personal Conduct Policy applies equally to everyone in the NFL. We will handle this allegation in the same way we would handle any issue under the Policy," the league said in a statement. "We are seeking a full understanding of the facts, while ensuring we do not interfere with an ongoing law enforcement investigation. We will take appropriate action as warranted based on the facts." The Policy was revamped in recent years with a focus on domestic violence and treatment of women, as well as creating an equality in terms of discipline between players, coaches, owners and any employee of the league, essentially across the board. "It is a privilege to be part of the National Football League. Everyone who is part of the league must refrain from 'conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in' the NFL," the policy now states. "This includes owners, coaches, players, other team employees, game officials, and employees of the league office, NFL Films, NFL Network, or any other NFL business." Another note in the NFL's policy points out that owners and management-level figures are "held to a higher standard" and can face "more significant discipline" when violating the Personal Conduct Policy. Edited June 17, 2022 by MWil23 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 @ET80 I forgot to tag you above per my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 35 minutes ago, MWil23 said: @ET80 I forgot to tag you above per my point While I understand that - what is an appropriate punishment? If it's sale of the team, wouldn't that mean Watson looking at a year suspension is actually under the bar? Is it strictly money? How do you effectively punish an owner? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 1 hour ago, ET80 said: While I understand it - what's a similar recoursing option here? How would you "suspend" an owner? What, they can't sit in the box for a season? Can't sign checks? Does their team revenue go back to the rest of the owners, or TV networks, or charity? Punishment to players is straightforward because it's directly tied to getting on the field. The only way to punish an owner is a nuclear option - completely banished from the NFL. Not opposed to it, and we've seen it happen with Jerry Richardson. Is that the precedence that the NFLPA and Watson want to lean on? That punishment should be banishment? Because there's an example of it in plain sight, one of the interested teams in Watson just went through with it. Concerning what Bauer got Anything short of 2 years is a travesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, ET80 said: The NFLPA has a legal obligation to defend Watson to the best of its ability... Oh I know. There's also a fine line between zealous defense and flat out rhetorical nonsense that the NFLPA (and the owners, league, and virtually everyone else) gets very close to more often than folks should be comfortable with. Just as you can't go to court and just make ish up as you go just because it sounds good, the PA shouldn't engage in a lot of the....I don't want to say cover-ups, but with their penchant for throwing a hissy over virtually every fine and punishment, it's questionable downplaying at best. Edited June 17, 2022 by ronjon1990 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 46 minutes ago, ET80 said: While I understand that - what is an appropriate punishment? If it's sale of the team, wouldn't that mean Watson looking at a year suspension is actually under the bar? Is it strictly money? How do you effectively punish an owner? I’d say you punish him at least via fine as opposed to releasing a message that there’s none whatsoever which is what they did. Snyder got $10 million at least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted June 18, 2022 Author Share Posted June 18, 2022 1 minute ago, MWil23 said: I’d say you punish him at least via fine as opposed to releasing a message that there’s none whatsoever which is what they did. Snyder got $10 million at least. I can buy that and - in the particular case of Dan Snyder - I'd say judgement day is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 2 hours ago, MWil23 said: Plus the NFLPA absolutely has a point and precedents with Kraft and Snyder. Snyder is arguably a predator even above Watson, Kraft had criminal charges, not civil. Don’t get me wrong I loathe Watson but the hypocrisy here is clear as day. The owners are......the owners. If you own a business you tell your employees to do things all the time that you don't do. Or in other words, you hold them to a standard that nobody is holding you to. It doesn't make sense to think anything would happen to the owners. The closest equivalent you could get is penalizing an owner a years worth of revenue (i.e. a season long suspension). But.....they own the team.... He's one of 32 people deciding what the rules are, effectively. Snyder is also a bad person, but he's not an employee. Watson is. So he can, will and honestly should be held to a different standard. He's also incredibly popular compared to Daniel Snyder. How many people even know his name? Versus how many that have Watsons jersey? By that alone it's more detrimental to the league for Watson (or any player) to be in a situation like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 9 hours ago, FrantikRam said: The owners are......the owners. If you own a business you tell your employees to do things all the time that you don't do. Or in other words, you hold them to a standard that nobody is holding you to. It doesn't make sense to think anything would happen to the owners. The closest equivalent you could get is penalizing an owner a years worth of revenue (i.e. a season long suspension). But.....they own the team.... He's one of 32 people deciding what the rules are, effectively. Snyder is also a bad person, but he's not an employee. Watson is. So he can, will and honestly should be held to a different standard. He's also incredibly popular compared to Daniel Snyder. How many people even know his name? Versus how many that have Watsons jersey? By that alone it's more detrimental to the league for Watson (or any player) to be in a situation like this. Then don’t release that statement or have legal language in the CBA like I posted above. That’s pretty black and white. 12 hours ago, MWil23 said: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-confirms-robert-kraft-suspension-fine-could-be-coming-based-on-outcome-of-legal-process/amp/ This stands out: ”Our Personal Conduct Policy applies equally to everyone in the NFL. We will handle this allegation in the same way we would handle any issue under the Policy," the league said in a statement. "We are seeking a full understanding of the facts, while ensuring we do not interfere with an ongoing law enforcement investigation. We will take appropriate action as warranted based on the facts." The Policy was revamped in recent years with a focus on domestic violence and treatment of women, as well as creating an equality in terms of discipline between players, coaches, owners and any employee of the league, essentially across the board. "It is a privilege to be part of the National Football League. Everyone who is part of the league must refrain from 'conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in' the NFL," the policy now states. "This includes owners, coaches, players, other team employees, game officials, and employees of the league office, NFL Films, NFL Network, or any other NFL business." Another note in the NFL's policy points out that owners and management-level figures are "held to a higher standard" and can face "more significant discipline" when violating the Personal Conduct Policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 17 hours ago, MWil23 said: Where was Kraft’s punishment? He was caught criminally getting what Watson has been accused of and wasn’t found guilty under the personal conduct policy. Well Kraft's was a misdemeanor prostitution charge (that was dropped because of a snafu). While still a crime (in Florida) it isn't the same as sexual assault or even misconduct. I don't know what ended up with the sex trafficking investigation of that "massage parlor" but I'd guess that it wasn't going on just because I haven't heard more about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said: Well Kraft's was a misdemeanor prostitution charge (that was dropped because of a snafu). While still a crime (in Florida) it isn't the same as sexual assault or even misconduct. I don't know what ended up with the sex trafficking investigation of that "massage parlor" but I'd guess that it wasn't going on just because I haven't heard more about it. But those were criminal and these are civil, and he was seen going in multiple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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