THE DUKE Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 I've percolated on it for a week now, and even past my immediate post watch optimism, I really think this movie holds up and is the best of this phase so far. Pros Angela Bassett was fantastic, juggling a role as the leader of the most powerful country on the planet and an extremely grief-stricken mother. I don't know how you can be a parent and not relate to her wild over reaction to Okoye and get where she is coming from. She lost her husband (protected by the Dora), her son (didn't lose him because of the Dora, but that siding with Killmonger was always in the back of her mind during the events of BP1), and now seemingly lost her daughter because of the Dora (the last living member of her family). Home run performance by Bassett. I also loved loved loved that they killed her off and brought some real stakes to the movie. I went into this as a mega doubter of Shuri being able to carry the mantle, but i'll take a big old plate of crow on that. Great storyline development and reasoning on why it had to be her. I kind of thought they'd go to Nakia, but her arc makes a ton of sense too once we get through the whole narrative. Namor's backstory, visuals, development, motivations, handled much better than the feeling I got from the trailer. Even in the end after being defeated, you still see him playing the long game, which I very much appreciated. For a guy who is several hundred years old, he should be well versed in the long game. M'Baku had a great supporting character arc in this, and I loved that he is the one who claimed the throne at the end of the movie while Shuri goes to get her **** together after everything that happened. Shuri as the Black Panther and protector of Wakanda with M'Baku coming out of it as King is not a route I expected, but makes perfect sense given the narrative. Big fan of how they showed the rest of the world desperate to get their hands on vibranium, because that is 100% exactly what would happen in any real world scenario. The MCU just kills it when they explore the topics of grief, resentment, mourning, and catharsis. This and WandaVision especially. Starting to throw around the M word more and more Cons I really like Martin Freeman as Ross and I think JLD was a great choice to play Val, but they feel very tacked onto this movie. I get the connections and why they were inserted into the movie and logically it all makes sense, but it was very much a tone shift away from the rest of the movie. I think a cameo scene or two would have made more sense than as much screen time as they got. The Dora's arc and them essentially getting their own iron man suits didn't really land for me either. So to fight water people you take a big boat out to sea and challenge them, but you use virtually no weapons from said boat made by the most technologically advanced country in the world? Kind of willy nilly sacrificing your people to fight on top of it rather that use it as the huge advantage it could have been. Was off enough to get my attention even as I was immersed in the movie. That Wakanda had no real defenses for their waterways just seems downright silly. Neutral Riri MacGuffin was a solid character and I think as far as intro go, it was fine, but I'm definitely going to need a little more detail into her backstory in the MCU. If she's brilliant enough to make a vibranium finder, an iron man suit (including building her own arc reactor), and work with Wakandan tech with virtually zero introduction to it, she wouldn't be slumming it doing class projects for hire. I call her Riri Macguffin because she seems more of a plot device to introduce Talokan than a fully fleshed character. We'll see if Iron Heart can build on that better than her introduction here. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't a real positive for me either. Those water bombs seemed awfully inconsistent. They always seem to be just as much powerful as they needed to be for the scene. MCU Rankings Captain America: The Winter Soldier Avengers: Infinity War The Avengers Avengers: Endgame Doctor Strange Captain America: Civil War Thor: Ragnarok Iron Man Guardians of the Galaxy WandaVision Black Panther: Wakanda Forever Captain America: The First Avenger Loki Spider-Man: No Way Home Avengers: Age of Ultron Spider-Man: Homecoming Guardians of the Galaxy: Vol 2 Thor Ant-Man Thor: Love and Thunder Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness Spider-Man: Far From Home Iron Man 2 Moon Knight Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings Hawkeye Ant-Man and the Wasp Black Widow Black Panther She Hulk: Attorney at Law What If...? The Eternals The Falcon and the Winter Soldier Ms Marvel Iron Man 3 Captain Marvel The Incredible Hulk Thor: The Dark World 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Definitely earned. Even if she doesn’t win it’s another step in legitimizing MCU movies as true works of art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 58 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Definitely earned. Even if she doesn’t win it’s another step in legitimizing MCU movies as true works of art. She definitely has a shot in supporting actress. She would have had no shot in best actress. I haven't seen the Whale, so can't comment on that nomination, but I don't think that JLC is winning for "Everything...". I do think that Stephanie Hsu should have a good shot at it though. I've only watched a bit of Banshees, so can't say on that nomination either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Forge said: She definitely has a shot in supporting actress. She would have had no shot in best actress. I haven't seen the Whale, so can't comment on that nomination, but I don't think that JLC is winning for "Everything...". I do think that Stephanie Hsu should have a good shot at it though. I've only watched a bit of Banshees, so can't say on that nomination either. Having 2 nominees in Everything also works against the nominees there. Agree there’s not enough to be Best Actress but Bassett certainly had enough to argue she qualified there more than Supporting. She absolutely dominated every scene she was in from start to finish. Edited January 24, 2023 by Broncofan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Lol, Marvel movies aren’t true works of art and they never will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingseanjohn Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 Finally giving this a watch since it's on D+. I've avoided all spoilers afaik. My live thoughts: So what killed T'Challa? I feel like they jumped too far into the end of it. It could have started with a "your brother collapsed" or something and Shuri immediately goes to the lab where it picked up. I don't know. I get why you wouldn't put too much time into it, but it was just abrupt and rushed. I love that every frame in the Marvel intro was Chadwick. "What's making that sound?" but doesn't fall under the effect. So only some of the not-Atlanteans are bulletproof? Namor is Superman+Aquaman? Did the shield need opening in Infinity War when Cap/Sam/etc flew in or did they just decide to require drums to lower the shields now? Not sure why Shuri would think of Everett Ross as a colonizer, but I admit I laughed. This Riri is more believable than a young child so far, minus the expensive lab that doesn't make sense. MIT ain't cheap. I still HATE that a kid has the knowledge and apparently resources to build an arc reactor and Iron Man suit when every single nation with every single scientist and resource available has failed. This chase scene is way too cheesy. Like, fast and the furious bad. 28,000 ft. Yeah, she should be dead. But movie, I know. Not-Atlanteans aren't killed by being impaled with Vibranium spears? Stripping Okoye status of General makes little to no sense here. The Kilmonger aspect doesn't fit with me. Just an angry mother I guess? Interesting not-Atlantean origins. It'd be kinda cool to get a longer Apocaltypto type origin movie. When did Wakanda develop tractor beams? This is one long *** movie. So the new general, who saw the previous long time general get fired, just let's Shuri ignore what her queen says? Doubt. The siren aspect of the not-Atlanteans is kinda cool but it isn't consistent and makes no sense. Interesting that absolutely none of the crashed Wakandan ships caught fire. Weak death for Angela Bassett. Weak. Story wise, it makes sense why Shuri took up the Black Panther. She's undeserving though imo. Plus she isn't really combat trained. Should've been Nakia or Okoye, especially since Okoye was no longer general. HATE Shuri as BP. Hate it. Hate it. Yooooooo Kilmonger!!! Best part of the movie so far. I really hope he comes back in the multiverse. I feel like M'Baku has been written completely different in a worse way. lol @ Shuri giving M'Baku commands and threats. Shuri's "Yibambe" just doesn't hit nearly as well as T'Challa's. I do like that Wakanda has a ship that appears to be modeled after Thano's monsters. Would be nice if they showed them stealing that tech, as well as the tractor beam. Riri's suit looks like CGI garbage. I hate that it has the similar sound too. Crazy how it works perfectly and she's good with it considering she's had no time to learn how to use it. If there's evaporation happening in that small area, shouldn't Shuri be having major issues as well; since you know, humans are up to 60% water? So everyone is Iron Man now? The spear made the entire ship separate, not explode, into a thousand pieces? This movie is just a high end DC movie with better lighting. lol at Namora repeatedly stabbing her vibranium spear into Riri's neck and nothing happening. lol at Shuri, a teen or 20-something (I think), out fighting someone with literally 300+ years of fighting experience... until that spear. Abs of steel jumping and flipping despite being impaled in the stomach. That injury went away sooooo quick... Shuri's ship was blown to pieces. Where did this one come from? If anyone, literally anyone, were to challenge Shuri to fight at the waterfall she'd lose. She doesn't have the training... And as I type this M'Baku is the man. "Colonizer in chains"... Not funny at all this time around. What did this man colonize and how is Wakanda colonized? I know the joke, but come on. So there's a little T'Challa now. Ok. Overall, I rate this bottom half of MCU, maybe the top of the bottom third. Like I said before, it felt like a high end and better lit DC movie. Now to read up on the comments... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingseanjohn Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 On 11/10/2022 at 10:22 PM, Deadpulse said: Its not a perfect movie but it is easily the best thing since Endgame. It is better than the original BP. Highly disagree on both counts. Since Endgame, these are all better than this: Loki, WandaVision, Shang-Chi, Multiverse of Madness, Moon Knight, She-Hulk, Love and Thunder, and maybe Werewolf by Night and Ms Marvel. The last two are close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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