StLunatic88 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 10 minutes ago, THE DUKE said: Say what? His stated plan was for Wakanda to essentially take over the world. Noooo, and this is maybe why you think he is overrated He wants to take back what is their's, and liberate all of their people. And in order to do that he has fought his way back to Wakanda to take the throne which he believes is rightfully his. 12 minutes ago, THE DUKE said: It's not like Shuri was some savage before, she just moved past her rage over her family's death and showed the traits taught her by her mother and brother. She was fully out for blood as the Black Panther when they were trapping Namor, it certainly wasn't sudden. She literally said if she thinks about the death of her brother too long, it makes her want to burn everything down. She manifests Killmonger because she wants revenge that she is masquerading as vengeance, and she is set on that even up till her and Namor Crash on that beach. She admits to Killmonger, even though she hates him, that she wants what he wanted, thats why she took the Herb. But just a few flashbacks and a vision of her mother suddenly changes everything? In an instant? Thats what Im talking about has to be earned. It should have been laid out that she was more conflicted, so that phrase of "show him who we are" actually meant more, and was just the final push, not the magic bullet to change absolutely everything about who she had been this entire movie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: Yeah, seriously. His motivation might have been more understandable, but he wanted to take over the world just like most bad guys. Again, no. He wanted the world to pay for what they had done. It is not at all about ruling the world. He wanted to rule Wakanda, so he would have the resources to liberate his people, take back what was theirs, and make people pay for the atrocities they have committed. He does not want to solely rule the world, he wants Wakanda, as an Empire to be the leaders of the new world, where their people are no longer oppressed. Edited November 16, 2022 by StLunatic88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 3 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: Again, no. He wanted the world to pay for what they had done. It is not at all about ruling the world. He wanted to rule Wakanda, so he would have the resources to liberate his people, take back what was theirs, and make people pay for the atrocities they have committed. He does not want to solely rule the world, he wants Wakanda, as an Empire to be the leaders of the new world, where their people are no longer oppressed. But only under him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: But only under him Thats an assumption. He only says that who is currently in charge doesnt have what it takes to do this. He does say he would be able to, but he is also a Warrior, and would be the one to take his mission to those people who need to be freed. He has supporters, W'Kabi backs him, and not all of the elders are against what he is saying. I guess this comes down to what you want to project upon Killmonmger. To me he is a soldier, he is there to get done what needs to in order to start the revolution, he never specifically claims that HE needs to be ruling the top global power of Wakanda in this New World that his mission creates. But if you want to think of it that narrowly, then I guess he is just another singular guy who needs to rule the world? But I never once thought of him as that. Thanos wants that, Ultron wants that, Red Skull, Loki, Obadiah Stain, Ego, Hella, they all want it for themselves. Ive never seen Killmonger along that same line of thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: Thats an assumption. He only says that who is currently in charge doesnt have what it takes to do this. He does say he would be able to, but he is also a Warrior, and would be the one to take his mission to those people who need to be freed. He has supporters, W'Kabi backs him, and not all of the elders are against what he is saying. I guess this comes down to what you want to project upon Killmonmger. To me he is a soldier, he is there to get done what needs to in order to start the revolution, he never specifically claims that HE needs to be ruling the top global power of Wakanda in this New World that his mission creates. But if you want to think of it that narrowly, then I guess he is just another singular guy who needs to rule the world? But I never once thought of him as that. Thanos wants that, Ultron wants that, Red Skull, Loki, Obadiah Stain, Ego, Hella, they all want it for themselves. Ive never seen Killmonger along that same line of thinking I do not understand at all how you can take this stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: I do not understand at all how you can take this stance. I was including him more broadly, that the universe(worlds) need to run in accordance to his beliefs/vision. Which is why he is culling half the population Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 8 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: I was including him more broadly, that the universe(worlds) need to run in accordance to his beliefs/vision. Which is why he is culling half the population Yeah, I literally couldn't disagree more. One character is consumed by revenge and wants to take that out on the rest of the world by becoming the King of a nation he wants to make the most powerful in the world, surrounded by only his people. It's literally a selfish man trying to gain power to enact his selfish vision. The other character believes that for life to continue there has to be massive reduction of the population, and he has an extremist solution for solving that problem. He doesn't want to do it but believes it's necessary for life to continue, and if he's perceived as the bad guy for it, so be it. It's not about forcing worlds to run in accordance to his beliefs, it's about them continuing to exist. When he succeeds, he shows how little he cares about ruling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingseanjohn Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 *Checks date* I guess we're getting into spoilers a day early eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 19 minutes ago, kingseanjohn said: *Checks date* I guess we're getting into spoilers a day early eh? work was hell for me today, couldn't mod, feel like its too late 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 6 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: Again, no. He wanted the world to pay for what they had done. It is not at all about ruling the world. He wanted to rule Wakanda, so he would have the resources to liberate his people, take back what was theirs, and make people pay for the atrocities they have committed. He does not want to solely rule the world, he wants Wakanda, as an Empire to be the leaders of the new world, where their people are no longer oppressed. He literally spells out his plan. This is basically word for word dialogue: 1. Arm war dogs 2. hand out weapons to oppressed people 3. kill every world leader 4. and their children So to recap, he wants Wakandan War Dogs to supplant every world leader. How is that not taking over the world? You can try and pretty it up by saying he is "taking back what is theirs" but thats literally the delusion Kilmonger suffers from pushing him to become the villain he is. If that is your stance, you just drink the Kimonger koolaid, which is a littler terrifying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gnat Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Deadpulse said: He literally spells out his plan. This is basically word for word dialogue: 1. Arm war dogs 2. hand out weapons to oppressed people 3. kill every world leader 4. and their children So to recap, he wants Wakandan War Dogs to supplant every world leader. How is that not taking over the world? You can try and pretty it up by saying he is "taking back what is theirs" but thats literally the delusion Kilmonger suffers from pushing him to become the villain he is. If that is your stance, you just drink the Kimonger koolaid, which is a littler terrifying. I think, though, that's as far as his plan goes. His plan is to rule everything, but it's a short sighted plan. And he really doesn't want to rule everything, his plan is to make everyone else pay. To do that, Kilmonger thinks that he needs to make everyone else pay, but he "claims" to have a long term goal, but his long term goal comes off as a short term goal really. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 10 hours ago, The Gnat said: I think, though, that's as far as his plan goes. His plan is to rule everything, but it's a short sighted plan. And he really doesn't want to rule everything, his plan is to make everyone else pay. To do that, Kilmonger thinks that he needs to make everyone else pay, but he "claims" to have a long term goal, but his long term goal comes off as a short term goal really. This was a big part of my point. He is a Soldier, he doesnt know what to do beyond the revolution. All of the "he would be King of Wakanda, Wakanda would be in charge of the world, there for he wants to rule the world" is all projecting the same paint by numbers villainy that we usually see in these movies. He has not gotten that far. Killmonger is not your cackling supervillain who is looking to collect the source of power to make the world/universe submit to his will/beliefs. He is an angry, forgotten son of the rulers, who he believes turned his back on their people outside the immediate walls of the nation. He wants revenge on theose royals just as much as he does the rest of the world. Its a very different situation than what we normally see in the MCU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 16 hours ago, Bullet Club said: The other character believes that for life to continue there has to be massive reduction of the population, and he has an extremist solution for solving that problem. He doesn't want to do it but believes it's necessary for life to continue, and if he's perceived as the bad guy for it, so be it. It's not about forcing worlds to run in accordance to his beliefs, it's about them continuing to exist. When he succeeds, he shows how little he cares about ruling. So he is forcing the Universe in this situation, to submit to his belief on how life should continue? And does so by any means necessary Thats why I altered what Im saying about Thanos; sure he doesnt want to rule, but he is also on the hunt for the most powerful sources in the universe in order to shape (thats being nice about it) all of life in the universe how he believes it needs to be in order to continue to survive. That part seems like every conqueror in all of history that weve ever known, until he doesnt want to to deal with the aftermath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) 43 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: So he is forcing the Universe in this situation, to submit to his belief on how life should continue? And does so by any means necessary Thats why I altered what Im saying about Thanos; sure he doesnt want to rule, but he is also on the hunt for the most powerful sources in the universe in order to shape (thats being nice about it) all of life in the universe how he believes it needs to be in order to continue to survive. That part seems like every conqueror in all of history that weve ever known, until he doesnt want to to deal with the aftermath. You know this take is a major stretch, and that the two are not comparable. Enough of the charade. Just own your bad take. Edited November 17, 2022 by Bullet Club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 43 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: So he is forcing the Universe in this situation, to submit to his belief on how life should continue? And does so by any means necessary Thats why I altered what Im saying about Thanos; sure he doesnt want to rule, but he is also on the hunt for the most powerful sources in the universe in order to shape (thats being nice about it) all of life in the universe how he believes it needs to be in order to continue to survive. That part seems like every conqueror in all of history that weve ever known, until he doesnt want to to deal with the aftermath. Okay, and how is that different than Killmonger forcing his ideals on Earth from the most powerful position in the world? What you posted is exactly like Killmonger, yet you're saying they're different. Maybe I missed something in another post and this is your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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