The Last Of Us - HBO ***No Game Spoilers***

[BobbyPhil1781]

2 hours ago, Xenos said:

HBO and the WB also doesn’t have the money to take risks compared to Apple or Amazon. WOT, for example, is already greenlit for S3, while ROP is getting all 5 seasons. 

Maybe I'm not aware of their financials but I would think they have plenty of money to take risks. 

[Ray Reed]

Prob in the minority on this, but it's merely solid for me so far. Seems very formulaic up to this point. Joel & Ellie are going to keep travelling to Wyoming, every episode or two they'll meet someone new on their journey, you'll get their backstory of what happened to them during the outbreak, and then they'll (probably) die at the end of the next ep or two, or at least go their separate way. They'll prob get to Wyoming and not find his brother, and it will be a "it wasn't the end destination, but the lessons learned along the way on the journey" type show. Which is fine. It's entertaining. But I just don't see anything groundbreaking or new that it adds to the road movie/zombie genre so far to get me like Game of Thrones level hyped about it.

[minutemancl]

So, if the infected were underground, but not in the tunnels, where the hell were they? The sewers? How did they form that cracking "bulge" under that building? Are the ones who did that the same ones that came out from the sinkhole under the house in the latest episode, or are there just so many underground that they expand throughout the entire city proper and nearby suburbs?

[Broncofan]

12 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

So, if the infected were underground, but not in the tunnels, where the hell were they? The sewers? How did they form that cracking "bulge" under that building? Are the ones who did that the same ones that came out from the sinkhole under the house in the latest episode, or are there just so many underground that they expand throughout the entire city proper and nearby suburbs?

This is all new from the series (as the VG took place elsewhere), but I took it from the ep as follows, from what we understood from the show:

1.   FEDRA drove the zombies underground.  They never eradicated the hordes.    They were constantly keeping the area safe, but it wasn't ever an eradication.    We also know FEDRA was overthrown 10 days prior, presumably with battles before, so this surveillance / maintenance ended likely well before with the immediate threat above.

2.  The tunnels were clear as of 3 years ago - but that still would have to mean the hordes went somewhere.   Sewer system would be 1 spot.

3.  With the series lore, the clickers and bloaters are more advanced infected (infected for longer - which really makes the child clicker even more chilling).    So they had to be further underground, and then as FEDRA maintenance lessened, rebuilt and started to migrate up.  The sheer number of clickers and the bloater that was in the horde, though, means it was around for a while.

4.  The big key part - last time it was checked & known to be completely clear was 3 years ago.     Kathleen had no one in the tunnels for some time, given their concern the tunnels might not be safe.   Remember this was happening before that fateful night.   

5.  Finally - the area that Joel/Henry & the kids went through was clean - but that doesn't mean the entire tunnel sections were clean.   That was just 1 very small area.    And once the battle got underway - the noise likely attracted the horde (just like how the noise from Joel's battle at the garage then attracted some of the horde to bulge into a nearby building, when Kathleen / Perry noticed it).   The difference being that there was a hole the horde could come up this time.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Broncofan

[4for4PhillyFan]

That was a brutal episode.  

[minutemancl]

Good article about episode 5:

I would have been bothered by this a few years ago, but I turn my brain off when I consume media now. There is very rarely a good show that actually has good and sensible politics.

[Broncofan]

22 hours ago, minutemancl said:

Good article about episode 5:

 

I would have been bothered by this a few years ago, but I turn my brain off when I consume media now. There is very rarely a good show that actually has good and sensible politics.

It's an overly simplistic analysis, and I would guess the author hasn't played the VG.  This isn't meant as a portrayal of FEDRA as sympathetic - it's showing how terrible things are often done in terrible times, and it shows the complexity of real-life decision impacts.     Joel & Tess have already admitted as much to their terrible past.    It's covered extensively in-game as well.   The main message is that this isn't a black-and-white, black-hat vs. white hat story.   There are tons of grey.   And in the case of KC FEDRA, their overthrow by the rebels,  while ignoring the threat below, it has consequences.

As for the criticism of the portrayal of actual acts by rebels vs. FEDRA bad acts being told and not shown - it seems unavoidable.   It's being told in a post-rebellion setting, over a 2-day period for Joel & Ellie, and an 11-day period for Henry & Sam, from the moment the rebellion succeeds.     

More importantly, the author in the article also seems to forget that Ep3 showed FEDRA rounding up ppl for mass execution if they didn't have QZ space - and of course, Ep1 with Joel losing Sarah as a result of a FEDRA soldier's orders.   Just because the show decides to have FEDRA's deeds simply told in this ep, when it's been shown in brutal, gut-wrenching detail in 2 other eps, really rings hollow.  This criticism of making FEDRA be sympathetic seems incredibly selective and arbitrary, when you look at FEDRA's portrayal in the entire series.  

To be absolutely fair - if a TV series has to rely on everyone having seen the VG, it's not doing a great job in storytelling.   But even Joel knew of the KC FEDRA reputation.   And we've seen FEDRA bad deeds in 2 other eps, in stark brutal form. The horror Joel has at Henry's 2 revelations, and Henry's own words, they reflect the understanding of what FEDRA is that has been very effectively established in Ep1 & Ep3. 

  

Spoiler

In the 1st VG, from characters stories and the notes, and then in the 2nd VG itself, we know FEDRA does awful things.  We also read from notes & see in the 2nd game that Fireflies had their own dark deeds, but also ppl who were just afraid, and out to protect their comrades / avenge their deaths - but with the overarching cause to try and save humanity (terrible deeds done in the name of a greater purpose).   And by the 2nd game, the Fireflies become one of the main opponents, so it's just a means of showing the complexity between sides.

Nowhere is FEDRA portrayed in Boston, or in the other cities, to be anything but a fascist regime.   But they also show notes from FEDRA soldiers who end up as rebel collaborators, and rebel notes (and those stuck in between both sides, or outright loners) that just show human fear, misery and despair (with the odd moments of hope - not many though lol).     Having FEDRA shown to have committed terrible acts in Ep1 & Ep3, and in the VG's, they're never portrayed as positive - although there are clearly some ppl within FEDRA who are shown to be more human.   That's just better storytelling IMO overall.   

 

As far as Henry being a POC being shown as a collaborator - there literally is no other main character post-Bill (who was never going to be shown as anything but a survivalist) they meet up until that section.  Plus, the jail cell full of collaborators wasn't all, or even mostly POC's.  And to be clear - in the VG there is no KC story.     It didn't even register on any level on 1st/2nd viewing.   This is a massive, massive reach IMO.   

The fact the rebels did terrible deeds and some FEDRA collaborators in KC had reasons ppl can identify with, simply shows what LOU has always reinforced - good guys aren't all good, and bad guys aren't all bad.    That's always been LOU's message from the get go.   But somehow saying the series is making fascists look sympathetic, well it conveniently ignores Ep1 & Ep3, and the entire background work done to that point.   

[BobbyPhil1781]

22 hours ago, minutemancl said:

Good article about episode 5:

 

I would have been bothered by this a few years ago, but I turn my brain off when I consume media now. There is very rarely a good show that actually has good and sensible politics.

I think they needed to use the word "fascist" more....... having a vocabulary is important when writing is your profession. Unless that was written by a 14 year old b/c that would make sense

I just read it again and it's objectively terrible. I really hope that person doesn't get paid by the website. It reads like some low-budget "resister" who was trying to make his friends at r/politics think he was cool. So bad

[Deadpulse]

Took that link out @minutemancl, felt like it was about to lead us down a road....

Quick reminder, while we can talk about the shows commentary on reality, politic talk is not allowed. Thanks.

[minutemancl]

16 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

Took that link out @minutemancl, felt like it was about to lead us down a road....

Quick reminder, while we can talk about the shows commentary on reality, politic talk is not allowed. Thanks.

Yeah, I thought we might have been able to have an interesting conversation about the choices the writers made in this episode, but that pretty much went out the window immediately.

[BobbyPhil1781]

Broncofan poked holes in that trash article right from the get-go. Very glad it was removed b/c no one needs to subject themselves to that garbage any further. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by BobbyPhil1781

[minutemancl]

11 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Broncofan poked holes in that trash article right from the get-go. Very glad it was removed b/c no one needs to subject themselves to that garbage any further. 

You ok?

[BobbyPhil1781]

16 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

You ok?

I'm great. If you think that article was good though, I'd be more concerned about yourself and not other people. I'm dead serious about that as well. Take a step back and reevaluate things from a different perspective. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by BobbyPhil1781

[Deadpulse]

Let's not get personal either guys

[minutemancl]

14 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

I'm great. If you think that article was good though, I'd be more concerned about yourself and not other people. I'm dead serious about that as well. Take a step back and reevaluate things from a different perspective. 

Just checking. Glad you're doing well.