2023 draft prospects and college football talk.

[turtle28]

35 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Zero percent chance he would stay on your PS long. 

Understood, then he's just an inactive player every week as our drafted & currently developing guys Bates, Turner & Rogers are active or 2 of them with Logan. I don't understand the developmental draft pick TE for us, we have 4 of those.
 

If we draft a TE IMO they need to have the ability day 1 to beat Logan as our starter. So Mayer, Kincaid, Musgrave, Washington or maybe LaPorta.

[MikeT14]

6 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Understood, then he's just an inactive player every week as our drafted & currently developing guys Bates, Turner & Rogers are active or 2 of them with Logan. I don't understand the developmental draft pick TE for us, we have 4 of those.
 

If we draft a TE IMO they need to have the ability day 1 to beat Logan as our starter. So Mayer, Kincaid, Musgrave, Washington or maybe LaPorta.

That's just one website's opinion. He honestly might not be inactive. 

[turtle28]

14 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

That's just one website's opinion. He honestly might not be inactive. 

If we take him I sure hope he's able to start. I'm going to be pretty upset if we take a TE in this draft that needs years of development, like I've said for months & just now, we have those guys in-house already.

[turtle28]

8 hours ago, e16bball said:

I think NFL.con is going to be a little surprised with where he ends up going, then.

I think it’s a little wild that folks think Luke Musgrave might go in the 1st, but Kuntz is a stretch in the 3rd-4th. Why? Not more productive. Not more durable. Not more athletic. Not a more coveted recruit. Better blocker, but it’s not like he’s great either. It’s a huge gamble on either one — but what makes Musgrave such a better bet?

It’s not that Kuntz is just a good athlete. Or even a really good athlete. He’s the single best TE athlete by RAS in the history of that metric. He’s rated “elite” in all 3 aspects of the testing: explosion,  speed, and agility. And it’s a position where being an elite athlete matters. Almost all of the best TEs in recent memory are 9+ RAS guys. 

I’d much rather see him with the 4th rounder. But if a guy like Bieniemy sees him as a potential star in his system, I’m not going to be the least bit mad if they pull the trigger on him earlier. 

All that said, I still think I consider LaPorta at 47 to he probably the best value pick at TE available to us. 

Lance Zierlein at NFL.com said his hands were an issue and he needed to improve route running; that’s why he sees him a day 3 picks & a practice squad player early on. He didn't have a knock on his athleticism. The guy sounds like a tremendous athlete, but is a a good to great football player? That's the question.

I’d hate to see us draft another Troy Apke.

Personally, I’d rather see us still not draft a TE at all in the draft & focus on what I consider other positions which are more in need and greater holes than TE is for us but, if we’re going to take a TE I’d rather it be Mayer, Kincaid, Musgrave, La Porta or Washington rather than what seems like a developmental athlete like Kuntz.

[daskins]

Yes - I wasnt that clear, I wouldnt want to take Kuntz in the 1st, just that he has enough upside to be great.  Also that Tight End is the only non special teams position where none of the "best in the game" players are first rounders.  Kelce, Kittle, Andrews are all 3rd-5th rounders.  And that the prospects that are deemed to be worth a first round pick, very rarely are when it comes to making it to the NFL.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, daskins said:

Yes - I wasnt that clear, I wouldnt want to take Kuntz in the 1st, just that he has enough upside to be great.  Also that Tight End is the only non special teams position where none of the "best in the game" players are first rounders.  Kelce, Kittle, Andrews are all 3rd-5th rounders.  And that the prospects that are deemed to be worth a first round pick, very rarely are when it comes to making it to the NFL.

I would say Kuntz would probably be a great special teams player so, there’s that I guess & he'd do that as a rookie mostly while developing more but, if we drafted Kuntz my feeling is that Logan is still out starting TE while Bates is the back up/blocking TE & Turner will be developing too. If we drafted Kuntz it's probably likely that Armani Rogers is a practice squad player.

[e16bball]

4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Lance Zierlein at NFL.com said his hands were an issue and he needed to improve route running; that’s why he sees him a day 3 picks & a practice squad player early on. He didn't have a knock on his athleticism. The guy sounds like a tremendous athlete, but is a a good to great football player? That's the question.

I’d hate to see us draft another Troy Apke.

Personally, I’d rather see us still not draft a TE at all in the draft & focus on what I consider other positions which are more in need and greater holes than TE is for us but, if we’re going to take a TE I’d rather it be Mayer, Kincaid, Musgrave, La Porta or Washington rather than what seems like a developmental athlete like Kuntz.

I’d hate to see us draft another Apke, too. But you have to take bigger swings to get bigger hits. And even Apke, despite being a bad football player, was a valuable contributor on special teams because of his athleticism.

When we look back at our recent history, the pick I’m most trying to avoid making again isn’t Apke — it’s Ryan Anderson. A guy who never had a chance to be more than depth at the pro level because he was overmatched athletically by every single player he came up against.

As to the specific evaluation of Kuntz, I’m sure Lance has access to more of his film than I do, so maybe he’s seeing things I haven’t. But I don’t think he has any significant issues with hands or route-running. He’s not a technician, but he’s so sudden that he leaves guys behind anyway. It’s like the difference between Terry and Tyreek Hill — Tyreek doesn’t have nearly the level of nuance in his route-running, but it doesn’t matter because he has an otherworldly combination of short-area burst, change of direction, and long speed. Kuntz is kind of like that, except as a TE. It’s also a little like watching Dawand Jones pass protect, in the sense that the technique is pretty spotty, but the end result is usually a win anyway. 

That said, I do think there’s a chance Kuntz doesn’t see the field early, but it has nothing to do with him not cutting it in the pass game. He’s a really bad blocker, and I can absolutely see the coaches feeling as though they can’t put him out there right away. Long-term, if they could turn Logan Thomas into a passable blocker, I think they could easily do the same with Kuntz. He’s huge and extremely athletic, which is a lot of the battle, and they’ll still have Bates to handle the heavier lifting.

[e16bball]

@turtle28, overall, I’m still with you. I’d much rather see them land a higher-end TE prospect that projects as a very likely starter. 

But with the limited picks, and a strong desire to address OL with one of the first two, it’s going to be tough to feel confident that they’ll land one of that top tier (Mayer, Kincaid, Washington, LaPorta, Musgrave). Even if one of those guys does make it to 47, there are so many other options there — great CB class, great EDGE class, desperate need for a LB, etc. 

So if TE is still on the list when it gets to 97 or 118, I won’t be mad if they take an upside shot on a guy with that kind of freakish physical ability. Remember, we’re talking about a former high 4-star recruit who originally went to PSU, so it’s not like he’s just some try-hard who only emerged because he was better than a lot of mid-major dudes. He’s always been a major talent.

[4209]

On 4/18/2023 at 9:02 PM, turtle28 said:

He played LB at Arkansas didn't he? It's hard to imagine him switching positions in the pros.

Yes he played LB at Arkansas 1 yr and 2 yrs he played on the LOS at Alabama. Sanders even played MLB at Arkansas. So he does have some versatility.  Just like any other 3 yr Junior with upside he should only get better. I think his strenght is on the edge as a pass rusher.

[MikeT14]

8 hours ago, 4209 said:

Yes he played LB at Arkansas 1 yr and 2 yrs he played on the LOS at Alabama. Sanders even played MLB at Arkansas. So he does have some versatility.  Just like any other 3 yr Junior with upside he should only get better. I think his strenght is on the edge as a pass rusher.

I agree. Could be wrong, but I agree. 

[ARTMONK HOF]

Don’t know if Bijan Robinson is in play at 16 for us but it will sting if the Eagles or Cowgirls get him. Stinging like when they got Lamb. 

[MikeT14]

33 minutes ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

Don’t know if Bijan Robinson is in play at 16 for us but it will sting if the Eagles or Cowgirls get him. Stinging like when they got Lamb. 

I know right? I don't want him, but I sure as hell don't want them to get him either lol 

[e16bball]

34 minutes ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

Don’t know if Bijan Robinson is in play at 16 for us but it will sting if the Eagles or Cowgirls get him. Stinging like when they got Lamb. 

I think it’s almost inevitable that the Cowboys will get Bijan or Mayer. It’s classically them, at least in the last couple years. They’ll get a guy who was a bona fide stud for years in college, but who everybody else is overthinking about.

It’s one of the benefits of not being good at thinking. You just stumble into these no-brainers time and again, like Parsons and Lamb and Diggs. 

[turtle28]

12 hours ago, 4209 said:

Yes he played LB at Arkansas 1 yr and 2 yrs he played on the LOS at Alabama. Sanders even played MLB at Arkansas. So he does have some versatility.  Just like any other 3 yr Junior with upside he should only get better. I think his strenght is on the edge as a pass rusher.

So, maybe he's a better candidate to be a 3-4 OLB rather than a MLB?

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

Don’t know if Bijan Robinson is in play at 16 for us but it will sting if the Eagles or Cowgirls get him. Stinging like when they got Lamb. 

I agree it will sting but that doesn't want to make me take a RB in round 1 when we have two good young RBs in house already. Drafting Bijan to me is basically having the drafting of Brian Robinson & especially Antonio Gibson become wastes. Gibson will go to becoming just a Special Teams player mostly.