Wide Receiver Outlook

[palmy50]

11 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Oh, so you're using hypotheticals in your replaceable assessment?  How many NFL punt have those two returned?  

Also, dumb mistakes.  Can you guarantee our coaches didn't tell Davis to take more risks last year? We had Hundley.  Might be nice to give our offense a nice boost.  You sure Davis wasn't doing exactly what he was told to do?

Those are two wildly important players to our defense you mentioned.  What happens to our offense if Davis gets hurt on a punt return?  Nothing.  What happens to our defense if Alexander or Jacksonville get hurt?  Lots.

Lots of questions there.

Fair points. All of them. 

[AlexGreen#20]

5 minutes ago, Cheech said:

In the fourth quarter, Davis made the mistake of not fielding a punt that landed around the Green Bay 15-yard line. The ball bounced, hopped and rolled its way to the 3-yard line, costing the Packers valuable field position when they trailed by a touchdown.

Davis looked dejected as the ball was finally downed, and Browns punter Britton Colquitt pumped his fists while staring at the sky.

“We give him a distance and then we talk during the week also about where the guy’s trying to place the punts and so forth,” special teams coordinator Ron Zook said.

He added: “Those are all things that you learn from, and we were fortunate enough to get out of there. That’s something (where you say), ‘OK look, it happened, let’s learn from it.’ It didn’t hurt us in that situation, now let’s go.”

 

Perfect, so we've established that there isn't a set 10 yard rule. So you can stop talking about. 

[OneTwoSixFive]

28 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I'm not gonna lie, pretty disappointed with that news. I think there's a ton of cheaters in this league and if we're not doing what we can to stay on an even playing field, I feel like we're falling behind. 

Interesting. I have the exact opposite opinion on this. I feel my team (the Packers) are superior to cheating teams like the Pats (Deflategate and videoing other teams practices), and to teams that play too fast and loose with 'return from injury times', like the Redskins with RG3, or teams that covet players like Merriweather (Skins again) who try to injure players.

It's like the lament of the guy who made a deal with the devil. At the end of his life, when his soul is due, he cries, "But I could have managed all this, without selling my soul." Yes you could, if you had put the work in," says the devil, "but it's too late now".

I'm not expecting saints, but I don't want the Packers deep on the far side of that line.

Peccadillo's = ok,  cheating = no.

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, OneTwoSixFive said:

Interesting. I have the exact opposite opinion on this. I feel my team (the Packers) are superior to cheating teams like the Pats (Deflategate and videoing other teams practices), and to teams that play too fast and loose with 'return from injury times', like the Redskins with RG3, or teams that covet players like Merriweather (Skins again) who try to injure players.

It's like the lament of the guy who made a deal with the devil. At the end of his life, when his soul is due, he cries, "But I could have managed all this, without selling my soul." Yes you could, if you had put the work in," says the devil, "but it's too late now".

I'm not expecting saints, but I don't want the Packers deep on the far side of that line.

Peccadillo's = ok,  cheating = no.

You can cheat and work hard. We don't get more hours in the day to work just because we're not cheating. 

[{Family Ghost}]

I hope I never have to watch Trevor Davis fair catch a punt at his own 5 yard line again.  

[{Family Ghost}]

52 minutes ago, pollino14 said:

Silverstein said on his pod that he wouldn’t be shocked if Moore didn’t make the team ? 

Nah .. he'll make the team. 

[Cheech]

1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Perfect, so we've established that there isn't a set 10 yard rule. So you can stop talking about. 

Right, because it would make Trevor Davis look a hell of a lot better for pinning the offense inside the 10 yard line if we stop talking about it.  We should stop talking about muffed punts in the preseason because the video is shady at best, too.  If we ignore that, then we can get back to claiming that Davis has sure hands.  Same with the bobble vs. Tennessee.  Ignore it.  

The Cleveland excerpt was just another example of his decision making as a returner.  Ball bounces at the 15 and he clearly should have caught it.  Instead the offense had to start at the 3.  One of the many examples that you would rather ignore because it doesn't fit your agenda.  It certainly won't show up in the stat sheet so I guess you don't have to worry about it. 

Maybe it's all a moot point.  If he can't get his *** back on the practice field he's toast.  If he can, and actually outplays someone at the WR position, maybe he sticks.  

 

I think this is the most unbiased thing I've read all day about Davis.  While I've conceded that he's absolutely an explosive returner, you've failed to concede that he has multiple weaknesses, too.  I think that is fairly telling.  https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/miscues-and-mastery-the-trevor-davis-dilemma-704 

 

[pollino14]

43 minutes ago, palmy50 said:

He sure as hell needs to start catching football's at some point. I'm not shocked by anything so far though and I give him plenty of rope to hang himself with. That was a very raw prospect. They are asking him to do many things he hasn't done since high school. Pretty unreasonable to think he'd shine this early. 

Reminds me of a young Davante Adams in a way. Really think he’s going to make some big plays for us, this year.

[Cheech]

4 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I hope I never have to watch Trevor Davis fair catch a punt at his own 5 yard line again.  

Did you know that Trevor Davis has never actually made a mistake in his life?  (1/200)

[OneTwoSixFive]

6 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

You can cheat and work hard. We don't get more hours in the day to work just because we're not cheating. 

You missed the point entirely, which was that you can get where you want to go without cheating. 

There are unseen penalties to cheating. Your team is held in higher regard by it's players, because they are known as a team that 'does things right', with the reverse applying if they don't.

I could even quote Tennyson: "My strength is as the strength of ten, because my heart is pure". Ok players hearts are often far from pure, but if they have just a bit more pride in their team, just a bit more strength of will because their team 'does it right' and still wins, those little incremental extras help counterbalance any advantage gained by cheating. Just because you deflate balls below their minimum pressure for a game, doesn't mean you will win.

[palmy50]

2 minutes ago, pollino14 said:

Reminds me of a young Davante Adams in a way. Really think he’s going to make some big plays for us, this year.

I had a pretty damn high grade on him. I felt he wasn't gonna bring much to the party year one but that year two jump is likely bigger than most. Big upside kid but unfortunately a low floor prospect as well. I just believed in the kid and our staffs ability to groom him. Easy kid to love though. 

[AlexGreen#20]

11 minutes ago, Cheech said:

Right, because it would make Trevor Davis look a hell of a lot better for pinning the offense inside the 10 yard line if we stop talking about it.  We should stop talking about muffed punts in the preseason because the video is shady at best, too.  If we ignore that, then we can get back to claiming that Davis has sure hands.  Same with the bobble vs. Tennessee.  Ignore it.  

The Cleveland excerpt was just another example of his decision making as a returner.  Ball bounces at the 15 and he clearly should have caught it.  Instead the offense had to start at the 3.  One of the many examples that you would rather ignore because it doesn't fit your agenda.  It certainly won't show up in the stat sheet so I guess you don't have to worry about it. 

Maybe it's all a moot point.  If he can't get his *** back on the practice field he's toast.  If he can, and actually outplays someone at the WR position, maybe he sticks.  

 

I think this is the most unbiased thing I've read all day about Davis.  While I've conceded that he's absolutely an explosive returner, you've failed to concede that he has multiple weaknesses, too.  I think that is fairly telling.  https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/miscues-and-mastery-the-trevor-davis-dilemma-704 

 

I've never said Trevor Davis is an all pro. I've never said he was an elite return man. I've said he's a steady and smart return man. 

The Browns play is a bad play. Of course it is. But you don't call a guy garbage for one play. You also tell your punt returner if he can't catch it clean to not go for it and risk a fumble. It's a decision a guy has to make.

Colquitt kicked from the right hash to the left numbers, from his 30 to the Packers 15. There was also a Packer blocker and a gunner in the area. You would obviously like Davis to return it, but I also don't want my punt returner risking a fumble. That's a kick you need a good read on immediately and if you don't have it, you get the hell away from it. It's a bad play, but it wasn't a turnover, it was an overly conservative decision. 

If that's the worst play your Punt Returner makes all year, you need to happy as can be. 

As far as the Cheesehead TV article. They have 4 fair catches inside the 10 that they consider to be unnecessary. I don't know when they are or what game they are. I can't evaluate them. And even if I could, I don't know what the coaching staff says. 

Just looking at the research, your fair catch marker stretches anywhere from the 3 to the 8 based on how far the punt has to be. If it needs to be a 35 yard punt, you fair catch at the 3. If it needs to be a 60 yard punt, you fair catch at the 8. All of this with the caveat that you need to know where the gunners are. Without that information, I can't look at the 4 plays that have so many people up in arms. 

[AlexGreen#20]

11 minutes ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

You missed the point entirely, which was that you can get where you want to go without cheating. 

There are unseen penalties to cheating. Your team is held in higher regard by it's players, because they are known as a team that 'does things right', with the reverse applying if they don't.

I could even quote Tennyson: "My strength is as the strength of ten, because my heart is pure". Ok players hearts are often far from pure, but if they have just a bit more pride in their team, just a bit more strength of will because their team 'does it right' and still wins, those little incremental extras help counterbalance any advantage gained by cheating. Just because you deflate balls below their minimum pressure for a game, doesn't mean you will win.

So Randall Cobb is supposed to take pride in his team to the extent that he plays better, because the Packers chose to not guarantee a guy a steady paycheck by not putting him on IR and instead letting an injured borderline roster guy try and find a home on his own?

[OneTwoSixFive]

3 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

So Randall Cobb is supposed to take pride in his team to the extent that he plays better, because the Packers chose to not guarantee a guy a steady paycheck by not putting him on IR and instead letting an injured borderline roster guy try and find a home on his own?

No idea what that means.

[Cheech]

17 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I've never said Trevor Davis is an all pro. I've never said he was an elite return man. I've said he's a steady and smart return man. 

The Browns play is a bad play. Of course it is. But you don't call a guy garbage for one play. You also tell your punt returner if he can't catch it clean to not go for it and risk a fumble. It's a decision a guy has to make.

Colquitt kicked from the right hash to the left numbers, from his 30 to the Packers 15. There was also a Packer blocker and a gunner in the area. You would obviously like Davis to return it, but I also don't want my punt returner risking a fumble. That's a kick you need a good read on immediately and if you don't have it, you get the hell away from it. It's a bad play, but it wasn't a turnover, it was an overly conservative decision. 

If that's the worst play your Punt Returner makes all year, you need to happy as can be. 

This is the problem.  On an obvious mistake, you're still providing excuses.  This isn't about just one play.