Wide Receiver Outlook

[HighCalebR]

14 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

98/1450/9

Those TD numbers are rookie numbers, gotta pump those numbers up.

[{Family Ghost}]

10 hours ago, incognito_man said:

98/1450/9

Not too shabby ... if he stays healthy he should have really good numbers .. I've got 90/1300/12

[TheBitzMan]

11 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

If we trade Cobb, our outlook is ****ed.

LOL. Is this a serious take? From the guy who wants to trade Rodgers?

[Arthur Penske]

15 hours ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Moore's drop problems go back to at least his junior year in college. This is nothing new caused by the stress of having to learn a new offensive system. I will get on the J'Mon bus when I see him start to catch some passes. Until then, I remain skeptical. Kumerow is getting open and making plays in practice against our top DBs. AND he's doing well in the pre-season games. He's earned his spot. 

Sure he had some drop issues in college, but he did catch for over 1,000 yards the past and nearly double digit TDs his last two seasons. Leading the SEC one of those years. So he must have been catching a few balls, right?? So I'm not skeptical that he has the ability to catch the rock.

I think it's fair that he has had some drop issues ( along with a lot of success) in college and that some of those drop issues could be being highlighted by learning a more complex offensive system as a pro.

[Arthur Penske]

18 hours ago, cannondale said:

It doesn't mean it's a good group either. I've already said it hinges on Cobb. His YPC dropped below 10 last year, a 3 year downward trend. And I like Allison, just not as a #2.

Time will tell, but let's be real, there is some concern there

Actually it hinges on Adams, Cobb, Allison and whoever else makes the roster. If Allison or longshots Kumerow, MVS, EQ, and Moore come in and play well does it not count because they weren't #2 going into the season?

Also, the TE position has the potential to be better than it's been in a decade. They catch balls too.

[Arthur Penske]

On 8/22/2018 at 12:40 AM, Gopackgonerd said:

It's like Kumerow is 7th guy or bust. I have a feeling QB1 will beg Gute and McCarthy for him to stay on the roster. I just don't see a way for any of the rooks to not be snatched up if they go on the practice squad. Perhaps we need to keep applying butter to Moore's hands so he drops every single pass for the rest of preseason so every team is turned away and we can stash him on the PS. Or the ol' Fake IR a guy so we can keep him trick.

I have a feeling they don't let QB1 say much in who stays or goes. If that were the case, I think QB1 would much rather have Jordy around than Kumerow.

[hoekd0250]

I'm pretty certain we should keep all our receivers and just go the Bill parcells, New York Jets route of Tom Tupa, and make our punter the back-up Qb.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

23 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Sure he had some drop issues in college, but he did catch for over 1,000 yards the past and nearly double digit TDs his last two seasons. Leading the SEC one of those years. So he must have been catching a few balls, right?? So I'm not skeptical that he has the ability to catch the rock.

I think it's fair that he has had some drop issues ( along with a lot of success) in college and that some of those drop issues could be being highlighted by learning a more complex offensive system as a pro.

Don't get me wrong. I would be ecstatic if Moore started catching everything coming to him and went on to lead the Packers' receiving corps and earn NFL rookie of the year. Just got to start catching some balls. IMHO cutting Kumerow to keep Moore (before Moore proves he can catch the damn ball) would further degrade an already mediocre WR group. 

IMHO the Packers knew when they drafted Moore that he might not work out...my evidence for this is the fact that they followed up that draft choice with two more WRs (MVS and EQ). If they were convinced that Moore was going to overcome his drop problems, they would have used those picks to address other areas of need. 

[MacReady]

Just now, TheBitzMan said:

LOL. Is this a serious take? From the guy who wants to trade Rodgers?

There's a difference between trading Aaron Rodgers at the beginning of the offseason to start over and having Aaron Rodgers and trading his second best receiver at the beginning of the season. 

[TheBitzMan]

5 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

There's a difference between trading Aaron Rodgers at the beginning of the offseason to start over and having Aaron Rodgers and trading his second best receiver at the beginning of the season. 

Here are the facts - They have been messing around with Davante in the slot during the preseason and they clearly value versatility in their WRs. Cobb is only a slot guy, the least athletic WR they have and is injury prone. I am guessing Gute isn't fond of a $9M cap hit for that player especially when he just drafted 3 of the most athletic WRs in the draft. He clearly has a type. 

You trade him if it allows you to open up cap space for another move. If not keep him for this year and move on next year. Either way losing Cobb doesn't amount to our outlook being ****ed.

[MacReady]

Just now, TheBitzMan said:

Either way losing Cobb doesn't amount to our outlook being ****ed.

What's the name of this thread?  Is it Season Outlook or Wide Receiver Outlook?

Davante Adams, Geronimo Allison, Jake Kumerow and Trevor Davis as your only NFL-experienced players?

I forget our 4th-6th round rookie receivers are going to transcend NFL history and each surpass the 13% odds of having over 20 receptions in their rookie season, but still... 

...It's a pretty bad outlook at the wide receiver position regardless of what your dislike and underrating of Cobb tells you. 

Cobb is important to this offense.  Rodgers knows it, McCarthy knows it, everybody knows it except for people like you who are angry at him for not having 110 catches every single season. 

[Leader]

30 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

IMHO the Packers knew when they drafted Moore that he might not work out...my evidence for this is the fact that they followed up that draft choice with two more WRs (MVS and EQ). If they were convinced that Moore was going to overcome his drop problems, they would have used those picks to address other areas of need. 

In theory you could say the GBPs "know" that any forth round draft pick might not work out - but I dont think they are down on Moore this quickly - or that "reservations" about him was their reasoning for drafting EQ and MVS. Rather - the position needed an influx of talent.

Jordy was slowing down. To what degree is debatable - but clearly the GBPs thought he was and moved on.
In your own words, Cobb isnt all that much and this should be his last year with the team.
Allison never set anybody's world on fire with his speed - it was his other receiving skills that give him a leg up.
The team approached multiple middle of the road WR FAs - but didnt (or couldnt) conclude a deal with any of them.

The position needed bodies - and the GBPs selected tall, fast and athletic talents to fill that void - Jmo being one of them.
 

 

[ThatJerkDave]

1 hour ago, Arthur Penske said:

Sure he had some drop issues in college, but he did catch for over 1,000 yards the past and nearly double digit TDs his last two seasons. Leading the SEC one of those years. So he must have been catching a few balls, right?? So I'm not skeptical that he has the ability to catch the rock.

I think it's fair that he has had some drop issues ( along with a lot of success) in college and that some of those drop issues could be being highlighted by learning a more complex offensive system as a pro.

He also had a better QB in college than Hundley or Kizer.  But you are going to have to deal with the ups and downs with J'Mon.  He can be dynamic, but he will have concentration lapses.

[TheBitzMan]

Just now, Outpost31 said:

What's the name of this thread?  Is it Season Outlook or Wide Receiver Outlook?

Davante Adams, Geronimo Allison, Jake Kumerow and Trevor Davis as your only NFL-experienced players?

I forget our 4th-6th round rookie receivers are going to transcend NFL history and each surpass the 13% odds of having over 20 receptions in their rookie season, but still... 

...It's a pretty bad outlook at the wide receiver position regardless of what your dislike and underrating of Cobb tells you. 

Cobb is important to this offense.  Rodgers knows it, McCarthy knows it, everybody knows it except for people like you who are angry at him for not having 110 catches every single season. 

Did I say season outlook? Did I say Cobb wasn't important? Did I say I am angry at Cobb for not having 110 catches? No

What I did say is that Gute likes athletic WRs with versatility. He clearly values explosive athletes - Cobb is not one of those. Just look at the athletic scores of the WRs. He is not in Gute's mold. 

RAS of current WRs. 

1. EQ - 9.92
2. MVS - 9.2
3. T. Davis - 9.12
4. Yancey - 8.89
5. Moore - 8.27
6. Adams - 7.65
7. Kumerow - 5.7
8. Cobb - 3.0
9. Allison - 2.8

I am not underrating Cobb - He is an average football player who has more value here because Rodgers likes him. He is also an old 28, coming off ankle surgery with declining production and a big cap hit. 

There are reasons to moving on from Cobb and reasons to keep him. Either way our WR OUTLOOK isn't ****ed. I think out of three rookies and Kumerow we can get 66 receptions and 600 yards (those are Cobb's last two seasons of production). 

Your whole point about 4th-6th round rookies completely disregards opportunity. I am guessing the 87% that didn't get 20 catches weren't the 3rd receiver in an offense led by Aaron Rodgers with Davante Adams and Jimmy Graham in it. Just a guess though. 

[MacReady]

Just now, TheBitzMan said:

What I did say is that Gute likes athletic WRs with versatility. He clearly values explosive athletes - Cobb is not one of those. Just look at the athletic scores of the WRs. He is not in Gute's mold.

How many of Gute's guys are 7 year veterans?

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not underrating Cobb - He is an average football player who has more value here because Rodgers likes him. He is also an old 28, coming off ankle surgery with declining production and a big cap hit. 

You know we'd still be paying that money to Cobb if he was traded, right? 

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There are reasons to moving on from Cobb and reasons to keep him. Either way our WR OUTLOOK isn't ****ed. I think out of three rookies and Kumerow we can get 66 receptions and 600 yards (those are Cobb's last two seasons of production). 

So you think having four players achieve what one player can achieve is the same?  Are Kumerow and all three rookies going to blend together and be one person on the field?  Some kind of Blob situation?  Because Cobb can do that as one person.  Can those three players achieve those numbers with Brett Hundley throwing them the ball and/or being healthy in 10/16 games?  Can any one of them do it on their own? 

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Your whole point about 4th-6th round rookies completely disregards opportunity.

Does it, or are you just assuming that? 

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I am guessing the 87% that didn't get 20 catches weren't the 3rd receiver in an offense led by Aaron Rodgers with Davante Adams and Jimmy Graham in it. Just a guess though. 

Just a guess.  Right.  What if I told you that, since 2000, only 62 receivers lasted 5 years in the NFL?  To break that down for you, 277 receivers have been drafted in the 4th-7th round of the draft since the start of this century.  That means that 78% of receivers don't last to their fifth year in the league under ANY circumstance.  49% don't make it to the third year.  66% don't make it to their fourth year. 

I'm just downright absolutely bat**** insane to not have high expectations for our receivers. 

After all, Davante Adams was a second round pick in an offense led by Aaron Rodgers with Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb in it and he had 38 catches, 446 yards and 3 touchdowns and he's turned into an elite receiver talent, so I should just assume that one of three receivers selected in the 4th-6th round of the draft will be capable of matching Cobb's production.  How dare I?