Trevor Lawrence has arrived

[KhanYouDigIt]

25 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

I like that I'm the one being called obtuse in a thread where I'm arguing with someone who is isolating one blow-out defeat to try to prove some point. But no, I typically wouldn't say that a QB who was on the other end of a beatdown played well. The entire Jaguars team was overwhelmed. 

It's like none of you can even for a moment stop and consider that maybe you guys are judging players by different standards, and in one instance you look for any reason to be optimistic and in the other you looked for any reason to trash a guy.

You said he put up better numbers. So you’re saying stats do lie?

[Daniel]

Why is it assumed to be unreasonable to have different standards for different players?

Seventh rounders and Number 1 overall picks come in already with fundamentally different histories, skillsets, and athletic profiles.  It would be absolutely ridiculous not to start from a different perspective on them.

[CKSteeler]

4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Why is it assumed to be unreasonable to have different standards for different players?

Seventh rounders and Number 1 overall picks come in already with fundamentally different histories, skillsets, and athletic profiles.  It would be absolutely ridiculous not to start from a different perspective on them.

They are clearly held to different standards. Antonio Brown was almost cut as a rookie because he was a 6th rounder and a head case even though he clearly showed talent and work ethic.

But the question is how long do you wait before you start asking questions about a guy? Specifically, I asked how Lawrence is using his superior skillset to Minshew, and no one provided an answer or even addressed it as if it were a legitimate question. The guy has mobility and a pretty good arm. I have witnessed young QB's without great vertical threats use those tools to create big plays that weren't really there based on play design. 

Lawrence is playing the game like a mediocre game manager, and some people just can't wait to heap praise on him. It's great that he's reduced his number of boneheaded plays, but at some point he needs to actually start making use of his physical tools or they are just kind of useless accessories. 

The actual play on the field you are seeing from Lawrence isn't really better than what we saw out of Gardner Minshew who was just as young and didn't have the physical ability Lawrence does. That's a statement made on their bodies of work after 1.5 seasons. 

[KhanYouDigIt]

2 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Lawrence is playing the game like a mediocre game manager,

Josh Allen- 7.8 IAY/PA

Trevor Lawrence- 7.5 IAY/PA

Patrick Mahomes- 7.0 IAY/PA

Joe Burrow- 6.9 IAY/PA

 

Sign me up for the mediocre game manager.

[CKSteeler]

17 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said:

Josh Allen- 7.8 IAY/PA

Trevor Lawrence- 7.5 IAY/PA

Patrick Mahomes- 7.0 IAY/PA

Joe Burrow- 6.9 IAY/PA

 

Sign me up for the mediocre game manager.

30th in deep pass completions

20th in yards gained per completion

24th in deep attempts per game

19th in YPA

But he doesn't have a guy outside on par with legendary DJ Chark, so clearly there's no real problem here on his part as a player. And something about Mac Jones looking good on one passing statistic that the other guy keeps harping on while he calls me his squire.

And I'm the obtuse one around here.

Edited October 25, 2022 by CKSteeler

[Ray Reed]

On 10/23/2022 at 8:34 PM, KhanYouDigIt said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401220149
 

would you say Gardner played good this game

go ravens

[Daniel]

4 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

They are clearly held to different standards.

And?

4 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

But the question is how long do you wait before you start asking questions about a guy? Specifically, I asked how Lawrence is using his superior skillset to Minshew, and no one provided an answer or even addressed it as if it were a legitimate question. The guy has mobility and a pretty good arm. I have witnessed young QB's without great vertical threats use those tools to create big plays that weren't really there based on play design. 

Lawrence is playing the game like a mediocre game manager, and some people just can't wait to heap praise on him. It's great that he's reduced his number of boneheaded plays, but at some point he needs to actually start making use of his physical tools or they are just kind of useless accessories. 

The actual play on the field you are seeing from Lawrence isn't really better than what we saw out of Gardner Minshew who was just as young and didn't have the physical ability Lawrence does. That's a statement made on their bodies of work after 1.5 seasons. 

Yeah, most of this is disingenuous at best; I'll go point by point.

For the first bold: It varies based on prospect, but definitely longer than a year.  There are infinite examples of QBs being crowned or labeled busts in their first year or two of play only to turn it around later in their career.

For the second: Flat out wrong, and it makes me wonder if you've actually physically watched any Jags games.  I'd love to hear you say, in detail, just how he's playing as a game manager.  Because he's not letting a great defense carry him (Jags are 20th in yds, 14th in points, and 18th in takeaways), or doing a lot of checkdowns, or just not throwing a lot (7th in passes attempted, 8th in yards, 10th in TDs).  So explain.  How is he a game manager?

For the third: This has been brought up many, many times already, but I don't think that's really the case.  From my recollection, Minshew was pretty mediocre.  Sure, it was better than you expected to get out of a seventh rounder, but he didn't set the league on fire.  He was given a season at the helm, and that magic from his rookie year kind of faded, he turned the ball over a lot, and he lost his job to Mike Glennon by the end of the year.

Lawrence, on the other hand, is a mediocre QB as a sophomore.  That would be a red flag if he was good as a rookie, but he wasn't.  He was on a terrible, dysfunctional team, with the worst HC in NFL history.  Now, he's shown improvement, and with his pedigree, and his history, there's no reason to not expect him to continue to improve.

So what are you even talking about?

[KhanYouDigIt]

3 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

30th in deep pass completions

20th in yards gained per completion

24th in deep attempts per game

19th in YPA

But he doesn't have a guy outside on par with DJ Chark, so clearly there's no real problem here on his part as a player. And something about Mac Jones looking good on one passing statistic that the other guy keeps harping on while he calls me his squire.

And I'm the obtuse one around here.

*IAY/PA -- Intended air yards per pass attempt - Average depth of target, whether completed or not*

The Jags rarely take shots deep, what’s your point?

That makes him a game manager? Lmao

You’re acting like he’s on Ben’s level from last season.

[CKSteeler]

3 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Because he's not letting a great defense carry him (Jags are 20th in yds, 14th in points, and 18th in takeaways),

I'd actually question where you are getting your stats, because the Jaguars are 10th in points allowed per game. They are averaging under 20 points per game. It isn't a unit lighting the world on fire, but they are playing better than anything the Jaguars have fielded the last few seasons.

6 minutes ago, Daniel said:

So explain.  How is he a game manager?

I've posted the stats on their deep passing game. His passing charts have been posted, and even the guys defending him admit there's like a brickwall when it comes to completing plays over 20 yards. He isn't even attempting the deep passes at a high rate. He is, in fact, checking it down quite frequently. He's lowered the interceptions, though.

9 minutes ago, Daniel said:

This has been brought up many, many times already, but I don't think that's really the case.  From my recollection, Minshew was pretty mediocre.  Sure, it was better than you expected to get out of a seventh rounder, but he didn't set the league on fire.  He was given a season at the helm, and that magic from his rookie year kind of faded, he turned the ball over a lot, and he lost his job to Mike Glennon by the end of the year.

Minshew had a lower INT% in 2020 than Lawrence has right now, even if only slightly. Minshew fumbled 5 times that year in 8 games. Lawrence has fumbled 4 times in 7. So, one guy is a turnover machine where as the other guy isn't? The 2020 Jaguars weren't quite as dysfunctional as the 2021 team given the coaching situation, but they were helmed by a lame duck coach who had jettisoned much of the talent that had been their core a few years earlier.

But we are getting to the crux of the issue which is that Lawrence hasn't really outplayed a guy with far less pedigree who was run out of town. In a topic where someone is crowing about how Lawrence has "arrived" because he looked OK in two games.

[CKSteeler]

9 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said:

You’re acting like he’s on Ben’s level from last season.

The corpse of Ben Roethlisberger in 2021 would have this Jaguars team sitting better than 2-5. Just as he would the current Steelers team. 

[KhanYouDigIt]

15 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

30th in deep pass completions

20th in yards gained per completion

24th in deep attempts per game

19th in YPA

But he doesn't have a guy outside on par with legendary DJ Chark, so clearly there's no real problem here on his part as a player. And something about Mac Jones looking good on one passing statistic that the other guy keeps harping on while he calls me his squire.

And I'm the obtuse one around here.

Mahomes is 4th in YPA yet 24th in IAY/PA. YPA inflated due to YAC.

[KhanYouDigIt]

11 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

I'd actually question where you are getting your stats, because the Jaguars are 10th in points allowed per game. They are averaging under 20 points per game. It isn't a unit lighting the world on fire, but they are playing better than anything the Jaguars have fielded the last few seasons.

I've posted the stats on their deep passing game. His passing charts have been posted, and even the guys defending him admit there's like a brickwall when it comes to completing plays over 20 yards. He isn't even attempting the deep passes at a high rate. He is, in fact, checking it down quite frequently. He's lowered the interceptions, though.

Minshew had a lower INT% in 2020 than Lawrence has right now, even if only slightly. Minshew fumbled 5 times that year in 8 games. Lawrence has fumbled 4 times in 7. So, one guy is a turnover machine where as the other guy isn't? The 2020 Jaguars weren't quite as dysfunctional as the 2021 team given the coaching situation, but they were helmed by a lame duck coach who had jettisoned much of the talent that had been their core a few years earlier.

But we are getting to the crux of the issue which is that Lawrence hasn't really outplayed a guy with far less pedigree who was run out of town. In a topic where someone is crowing about how Lawrence has "arrived" because he looked OK in two games.

You are acting like he doesn’t throw the ball beyond 5 yards. He is coming off a game where he completed 11 passes beyond 10 yards and had 370 IYA. You immediately called him captain checkdown after the game 😂 just because he doesn’t throw it deep as much as you’d like due to the fact the Jags don’t have a deep threat, doesn’t make him a game manager. I’m literally showing you his intended air yards per attempt are on par with Allen, Mahomes and Burrow. 
 

Trevor’s 4 fumbles this year came in a monsoon in Philly. Hasn’t fumbled in any other game this year.

Should I bring up the duck heave in Washington that resulted in an INT? Or the duck Hail Mary INT against the Texans at the end of the game? Or the 4 dropped TD passes? Does the box score not tell you that?

Edited October 25, 2022 by KhanYouDigIt

[KhanYouDigIt]

WHY DOESNT TREVOR LAWRENCE THROW DEEP

 

[KhanYouDigIt]

Once again why isn’t he throwing deep 

 

[.Buzz]