Trevor Lawrence has arrived

[seminoles1]

2 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

I can only laugh at the number of people looking to crown the QB of a 4-7 football team because he had one big quarter against a team that has blown leads just like that all year to such illustrious QB's as Daniel Jones and Jacoby Brissett. Oh, and he looked solid against the Raiders...

Yeah, screw optimism.

[CKSteeler]

It's not optimism. Optimism would be cautiously offering praise when he plays well and looking for signs of progress. 

Most of the people championing Lawrence in this thread insist he's already arrived with multiple attempts to paint him as if he's an actual top 10 QB.

[Mox]

6 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

It's not optimism. Optimism would be cautiously offering praise when he plays well and looking for signs of progress. 

Most of the people championing Lawrence in this thread insist he's already arrived with multiple attempts to paint him as if he's an actual top 10 QB.

It's probably safe to say he's top 15ish considering all metrics have him around there, and it's not like he has a great cast around him. Not bad for a second-year guy.

[seminoles1]

54 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

It's not optimism. Optimism would be cautiously offering praise when he plays well and looking for signs of progress. 

Most of the people championing Lawrence in this thread insist he's already arrived with multiple attempts to paint him as if he's an actual top 10 QB.

I feel like you're making this up. I went through the last like 15 pages of the thread (all of November) and there was 1 post that mentioned he was playing like a top 10 QB in early November, and that same poster has admitted Lawrence has been up and down and awful in the red zone.

[CKSteeler]

1 minute ago, seminoles1 said:

I feel like you're making this up. I went through the last like 15 pages of the thread (all of November) and there was 1 post that mentioned he was playing like a top 10 QB in early November, and that same poster has admitted Lawrence has been up and down and awful in the red zone.

There were two Jags fans who posted numbers on him being a top 10 guy in this thread arguing back and forth with me while a moderator who shall remain nameless put me on ignore because I dared to question the narrative that Lawrence had arrived as an NFL QB.

[.Buzz]

1 hour ago, CKSteeler said:

It's not optimism. Optimism would be cautiously offering praise when he plays well and looking for signs of progress. 

Most of the people championing Lawrence in this thread insist he's already arrived with multiple attempts to paint him as if he's an actual top 10 QB.

Not sure how anyone is “crowning him”. He’s making clear progress after a statistically rough rookie year in a tough situation. Lawrence ranks through 11 games (thanks @pwny😞

14th in ANY/A
11th in passer rating
17th in QBR
13th in YPG
11th in INT%
17th in TD%
11th in comp%
10th in sack%
15th in NY/A

Fair to say he’s a middle of the road QB right now and over the month of November:

Think it’s ok to be pretty stoked about his trajectory.

[.Buzz]

4 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

There were two Jags fans who posted numbers on him being a top 10 guy in this thread arguing back and forth with me while a moderator who shall remain nameless put me on ignore because I dared to question the narrative that Lawrence had arrived as an NFL QB.

Didn’t know posting advanced metrics that were glowing on his play means we said he was a top 10 QB. I certainly haven’t viewed him in that light. Can’t speak for others.

If he continues how he’s played in November? He’s knocking on that door.

[Daniel]

4 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

There were two Jags fans who posted numbers on him being a top 10 guy in this thread arguing back and forth with me while a moderator who shall remain nameless put me on ignore because I dared to question the narrative that Lawrence had arrived as an NFL QB.

They were posting stats showing he was top 10 in certain categories.  That is a wholly different thing than arguing that he, as he is, is a top 10 QB.  I don't remember seeing anyone making that argument in the last 10 or more pages.

[CKSteeler]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

They were posting stats showing he was top 10 in certain categories.  That is a wholly different thing than arguing that he, as he is, is a top 10 QB.  I don't remember seeing anyone making that argument in the last 10 or more pages.

So it's only one guy stating it directly while others just posted meaningless statistics with no correlation to anything that matters. And when that one guy did say it directly, the the other half dozen Lawrence ball washers didn't disagree or even blink or feel an ounce of embarrassment while attacking the two people in the thread at the time who dared to be critical of him? How could I possibly mischaracterize their argument like that. How dishonest of me...

Of course, I think most honest people would fail to see much distinction in someone posting advance stats ranking Lawrence as a top 10 QB while defending his play post after post while offering no clarification on just where they rank him with someone who just outright says that guy is in the top 10.

5 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Didn’t know posting advanced metrics that were glowing on his play means we said he was a top 10 QB. I certainly haven’t viewed him in that light. Can’t speak for others.

If he continues how he’s played in November? He’s knocking on that door.

You posted the stats, and when I pointed out that he was only ranked so high in DVOA because the level of play throughout the league was just so poor in general, you disagreed with that. His actual numbers wouldn't put him up that high in any recent season.

[.Buzz]

3 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

You posted the stats, and when I pointed out that he was only ranked so high in DVOA because the level of play throughout the league was just so poor in general, you disagreed with that. His actual numbers wouldn't put him up that high in any recent season.

So you’re saying we should be grading Lawrence on a scale of a different year than he’s currently playing in?

Makes sense.

[seminoles1]

21 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

There were two Jags fans who posted numbers on him being a top 10 guy in this thread arguing back and forth with me while a moderator who shall remain nameless put me on ignore because I dared to question the narrative that Lawrence had arrived as an NFL QB.

I guess I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since this post was so vague.

1 hour ago, CKSteeler said:

Most of the people championing Lawrence in this thread insist he's already arrived with multiple attempts to paint him as if he's an actual top 10 QB.

"Most of the people championing Lawrence." Since you later said that was only 2 people, I guess the post makes sense. But I'll be honest, your tone and the way you worded it made it seem like this thread was just overrun with people calling him a top 10 QB.

I wouldn't say 2 Jaguars fans posting some stats to track his progression means the people are championing Lawrence, but you do you.

[CKSteeler]

9 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

So you’re saying we should be grading Lawrence on a scale of a different year than he’s currently playing in?

Makes sense.

I'm saying that QB's should be evaluated on an objective scale. There are a handful of guys throwing the ball at a high level this year. Far fewer than normal years. And as I stated in response to this line of questioning weeks ago, your argument that we should take his DVOA ranking as significant would only really matter if you believed the decline in QB play seen league wide this year was the result of some larger league trend beyond a general decline in QB play.

Football Outsiders compares DVOA across seasons for teams and individual players. Lawrence's DVOA numbers are pedestrian.

[Daniel]

The statistics that I like are the objective ones.  Yours that disagree with me are nitpicky and biased.  I win.

[.Buzz]

51 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

I'm saying that QB's should be evaluated on an objective scale. There are a handful of guys throwing the ball at a high level this year. Far fewer than normal years. And as I stated in response to this line of questioning weeks ago, your argument that we should take his DVOA ranking as significant would only really matter if you believed the decline in QB play seen league wide this year was the result of some larger league trend beyond a general decline in QB play.

Football Outsiders compares DVOA across seasons for teams and individual players. Lawrence's DVOA numbers are pedestrian.

None of what I said while sharing those stats made it out as if I was “championing Lawrence” though even if that’s the route you want to take this (comparing what he’s doing against his peers this year versus other years). Nor am I only using DVOA when assessing Lawrence.

Also, figured I’d share that over his last 3 starts (month of November) he has been in that realm you speak of:

Wasn’t just “a 4th quarter against the Ravens.”

[CKSteeler]

I'm not championing Lawrence! Now here are a whole bunch of posts where I post stats that attempt to make Lawrence look good!

I never said Lawrence's recent upswing was one good quarter against the Ravens. Though he basically put up one particularly good quarter of play in that game. He also played well against Oakland, for whatever that is worth. He was mediocre against the Chiefs at best, but yea, the final statline didn't look bad. Entered the 4th quarter down 27-10.