Joe Barry'd again

[Mdpackfan22]

Whoever we hire I want to run a 4-3 or a variation of it. We have the personnel and size for it

Run downs

DE: Gary 276 LBs

3T: Clark 314 LBs

1T: Slaton 330 LBs

DE: LVN 272 LBs

 

On obvious passing downs, substitute Wyatt for Slaton

 

4 guys hands in the dirt every down. 

 

[Leader]

5 minutes ago, Mdpackfan22 said:

Whoever we hire I want to run a 4-3 or a variation of it. We have the personnel and size for it

For context....can you list some top defenses that (predominately) now run a 4-3?

[Mdpackfan22]

1 minute ago, Leader said:

For context....can you list some top defenses that (predominately) now run a 4-3?

Off the top of my head:

49ers, Eagles, Lions, Browns, Saints and Commanders

 

I believe Jets and Bills run a hybrid 4-3 

[Leader]

1 minute ago, Mdpackfan22 said:

Off the top of my head:

49ers, Eagles, Lions, Browns, Saints and Commanders

 

I believe Jets and Bills run a hybrid 4-3 

Hmmm...some good Ds.

[MacReady]

3 minutes ago, Leader said:

Hmmm...some good Ds.

Because the dang advantage has shifted and teams didn’t seem to get the memo.

In the NFL, you do what’s not the norm. It’s why primarily running teams are doing so well right now when the pass happy offenses are struggling to win.

If you want to stand out in the NFL, stand out; don’t follow the trends.

[packfanfb]

Reemphasizing a point made in another thread about whether we are "soft" or whatever people want to call it. The fact that we suck at stopping the run "is" a Joe Barry problem; however, it is "not solely" a Joe Barry problem. There is a much deeper, philosophical issue here that runs as deep as looking at the types of players we add to the defense and the identity of the team as a whole (which implicates our GM and coach as well). This is one reason why it's not a given that our defense suddenly takes off regardless of whether it's Joe Barry or Bill Belichick running it as the DC. 

[MacReady]

15 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Reemphasizing a point made in another thread about whether we are "soft" or whatever people want to call it. The fact that we suck at stopping the run "is" a Joe Barry problem; however, it is "not solely" a Joe Barry problem. There is a much deeper, philosophical issue here that runs as deep as looking at the types of players we add to the defense and the identity of the team as a whole (which implicates our GM and coach as well). This is one reason why it's not a given that our defense suddenly takes off regardless of whether it's Joe Barry or Bill Belichick running it as the DC. 

To say it’s not scheme/coaching when we’re 32nd.

If anybody honestly believes that’s a player problem they are among the dumbest people on the planet.

If anybody legitimately thinks a team with Kenny Clark has the 32nd best players on the DL, they literally cannot be any dumber.

[skibrett15]

5 minutes ago, MacReady said:

To say it’s not scheme/coaching when we’re 32nd.

If anybody honestly believes that’s a player problem they are among the dumbest people on the planet.

If anybody legitimately thinks a team with Kenny Clark has the 32nd best players on the DL, they literally cannot be any dumber.

It's well over half coaching

There's a portion, similar to how they ignored special teams value building the roster, where there was no emphasis on acquiring the balanced skillset.  Priority was given to defending the pass.

Edited October 2, 2023 by skibrett15

[Bumski]

5 minutes ago, MacReady said:

To say it’s not scheme/coaching when we’re 32nd.

If anybody honestly believes that’s a player problem they are among the dumbest people on the planet.

If anybody legitimately thinks a team with Kenny Clark has the 32nd best players on the DL, they literally cannot be any dumber.

Consider me one of the dumb ones. Clark hasn't been great for like three years now

[packfanfb]

3 minutes ago, MacReady said:

To say it’s not scheme/coaching when we’re 32nd.

If anybody honestly believes that’s a player problem they are among the dumbest people on the planet.

If anybody legitimately thinks a team with Kenny Clark has the 32nd best players on the DL, they literally cannot be any dumber.

I don't think we are necessarily saying anything different. My point is that it's not simply a DC problem. I think it's more of an organizational problem from the top down -- scouting, player acquisition and player development. 

[HighCalebR]

11 minutes ago, Bumski said:

Consider me one of the dumb ones. Clark hasn't been great for like three years now

I don't know how the **** anybody watches these games and thinks Kenny isn't playing fantastic ball. 

Who is playing great ball if Kenny's performances are considered sub optimal?

[SpeightTheVillain]

Here is the EPA per play for runs vs passes across the league in 2021.

Passing: League average +0.173 EPA per play with 29 of 32 teams averaging a positive EPA on passing attempts

Rushing: League average -0.039 EPA per play with only 8 teams having a positive EPA for rushing attempts.

I am curious as to how this plays into Joe's defensive approach. We are basically incentivizing teams to take the lower EPA choice (running the ball) by visibly playing small.

Is this the basis for it? I know not matching personnel probably alters the EPA per play on run plays but I have no way to measure how big a difference it is - but the team probably does. He can't just be stupid can he? There has to be philosophical basis that he sold LaFleur on. I agree with the universal opinion that Barry needs to go but I am just trying to understand the thought process.

Anecdotally it does seem like we only lose to the same 8 teams.

[skibrett15]

22 minutes ago, SpeightTheVillain said:

Here is the EPA per play for runs vs passes across the league in 2021.

Passing: League average +0.173 EPA per play with 29 of 32 teams averaging a positive EPA on passing attempts

Rushing: League average -0.039 EPA per play with only 8 teams having a positive EPA for rushing attempts.

I am curious as to how this plays into Joe's defensive approach. We are basically incentivizing teams to take the lower EPA choice (running the ball) by visibly playing small.

Is this the basis for it? I know not matching personnel probably alters the EPA per play on run plays but I have no way to measure how big a difference it is - but the team probably does. He can't just be stupid can he? There has to be philosophical basis that he sold LaFleur on. I agree with the universal opinion that Barry needs to go but I am just trying to understand the thought process.

Anecdotally it does seem like we only lose to the same 8 teams.

The issue is not being adaptable enough to stop the run when you know the other team is trying to run.  When they have a lead and are looking to control the game rather than rack up points.  In short yardage.  And in other ball control situations.

 

Passing EPA is higher but with higher variance, but running EPA variance is lower with lower average EPA.  Meaning if you don't need more expected points... it's fine to run the ball because you aren't risking as big of a downside.  

[incognito_man]

1 hour ago, Bumski said:

Consider me one of the dumb ones. Clark hasn't been great for like three years now

The second sentence makes the first redundant

(KC is absolutely ballin)

[incognito_man]

17 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

The issue is not being adaptable enough to stop the run when you know the other team is trying to run.  When they have a lead and are looking to control the game rather than rack up points.  In short yardage.  And in other ball control situations.

 

Passing EPA is higher but with higher variance, but running EPA variance is lower with lower average EPA.  Meaning if you don't need more expected points... it's fine to run the ball because you aren't risking as big of a downside.  

Buy your age in bonds

Run your expected win % in neutral downs