The Good, the Bad, the Raiders finally showed up vs. Houston (Post-game Chat)

[BackinBlack]

Its a pretty simple concept, how do you beat teams with good Os? 
You keep them off the field with long drives right? Does everyone agree with that? 

- 
Now the flip side - how do you cover up your bad D? 
With long drives. We average the longest time per drive. We keep our D off the field. 
The opponent rarely scores when not on O.
-
We are not dead last in points allowed, because our O is sustaining long drives and making the game shorter. 

-

The D is holding its own based of the new system and talent level, but to act like they are anything but a bottom 7 D is being generous here. 

[BackinBlack]

2 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Reality is Carr is not a 30 point a game QB so now we have to rely on a defense we knew lacked talent.

Ah simple simple thought that if a qb cant get 30, we need to rely on the D

Did you miss last week? There is more to an O than QB, This guy named JJ got us to 30!

Blows my mind, you think we relied on the D over Jacobs last week lmao. 

[ronjon1990]

9 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Okay so if we are not suppose to be a 30 point team per game then why were we a 27 point per game team in 2020 and 26 point per game team in 2021 before Gruden was canned and Ruggs car incident.  Is Adams not an upgrade over Ruggs?  Is McDaniels not an upgrade over Gruden.  McDaniels the red zone coach just needs to turn 1 red zone FG a game into a TD and we are there.  We went all in on offense and gave ourselves a 3 year window.  This is what so many have said to me but we did so by keeping the same production from the Gruden years on offense and the defense getting worse.  I thought some have been saying the O turned the corner and is improving. Did they not just average 33 points per game in the last 3 games.  .  Is this offense the savior of this team or did we just waste picks and cap on the offense?  I will attempt to answer.  If the Offense could close out games the way they are suppose to that is a TD against the Chargers (just one good throw on a Carr int), a FG against the Cardinals (Renfrow not fumbling), a FG against the Titans (1 incomplete pass to Waller instead of an Int leads to an easy FG), and a FG against the Chiefs (Adams with a clean catch getting two feet down or even not running into Renfrow).  That is 16 extra point putting us at 29.9 points per game and a 6-0 record maybe.  This team has done what was expected except it has not executed when needed at the beginning of the year.  Our defense is not going to win us many games because McDaniels did not want to commit to it this year.  Maybe we can turn this around next year if we put some effort into it but this year we just have to hope the defense is good enough and not good.  As for the points per game I will not even count the 2 defensive scores but the fumble return for a TD was not the defense giving up points so our defense has given up 24 points per game.  The defense has given up under 24 points 3 times, gave up 24 points twice, and gave up over 24 once.

And Mcdaniels and Ziegler decided that is how this team is going to be this year.  Not entirely their fault.  They have to wait for the Gruden bad contracts and draft picks to be gone.

Let's break this down bit by bit. 

1. 2020 and 2021 are not 2022. But thanks for reminding us all that the offense hasn't been the big problem for the Raiders. 

2. Adams is one player. We don't if McDaniels is a better coach. Some of us were highly skeptical of him before he even walked out into the field. If you had high expectations for the guy and feel let down, that's on you. But nothing about Josh McDaniels past should have stoked anything but skepticism to begin with, given his past and the coaching tree from which he fell. 

3. Fire whoever made that dumb decision. That's not a strategy, that's a gamble. 

4. You're aware how averages work, yeah? This is like saying KC should be a 40+ ppg team because after week 1 they were averaging 44 points per game. 

5. Good teams don't have savior units, so again, if that was a formal plan, that should lead to even less confidence. 

6. If the defense wasn't near league bottom, it wouldn't all come down to one drive we absolutely have to have. Why didn't the defense do it's job and stop Arizona at any of the historic points on their last couple of drives? I won't even address the defense breaking further than that because it's beyond painfully obvious. 

7. Nobody has ever advocated that our defense, particularly as long as it's called by Patrick Graham, will win us games. But they lost us plenty thus far letting big leads disappear and not getting off the field in any sort of positive manner. 

8. Strong disagree. They both made the decision to give a failure of a DC yet another scholarship opportunity. Of true note from last year, we lost Yannick and Hayward. We have objectively better players across the defense from last year (Yannick > Jones, fair enough). We have better LBs and depth, better S depth with Harmon instead of Leavitt when things go wonky, better overall CBs, and yet.....the defense is worse by virtually every single metric? That IS their fault. We didn't make changes in players that would lead to such big drop offs. The D wasn't particularly good last year, but it was better than this. So I have to disagree, they screwed up in allowing that charity case of a DC to come along and keep his job so far, and have chosen to keep him, so they need to own it And should be expected to own it.

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

This I don’t understand how so much improvement was added on offense but the expectations stay the same. Before the season people were claiming we’d be putting up 30 burgers on everyone. What happened?

Because some people put outsized expectations out there and others bit. 

 

Davante Adams having like 1500 yards and double digit TDs while Carr tops 40 TDs and 5000 yards sort of nonsense. 

Some of us pointed out that McDaniels offense wasn't an Air Raid that churned out HOF type numbers each and every year and that the expectations being thrown about here were a very real exception to every Josh McDaniels rule.

[raidr4life]

40 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Ah simple simple thought that if a qb cant get 30, we need to rely on the D

Did you miss last week? There is more to an O than QB, This guy named JJ got us to 30!

Blows my mind, you think we relied on the D over Jacobs last week lmao. 

That's my point for too long we waited for Carr to ascend to top 5 QB status the reality is he won't, the offense runs thru Jacobs. We just haven't seen that guy since 2015 and 2016 seasons. It blows my mind that you think I said we relied on the D over Jacobs last week lmao. What i do know is Jacobs can't have monster games every week, we need Carr to have a few when will he. I literally just said the defense lacks talent and can't be relied upon, but they did however surround Carr with offensive talent to be the identity of this team until the defense can add talent.

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, raidr4life said:

Reality is Carr is not a 30 point a game QB so now we have to rely on a defense we knew lacked talent.

We’re built to out score people

[BackinBlack]

36 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

It blows my mind that you think I said we relied on the D over Jacobs last week lmao. 

 

1 hour ago, raidr4life said:

Reality is Carr is not a 30 point a game QB so now we have to rely on a defense we knew lacked talent.

I think that because you said, SO NOW WE NEED TO RELY ON A D
not, a strong run game, or strong wrs, just straight to relying on the D lol.

weve never relied on our D lmao. 

[BackinBlack]

18 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

We’re built to out score people

And we are  scoring more than 93.5% of the NFL

Edited October 29, 2022 by BackinBlack

[NCOUGHMAN]

30 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

And we are  scoring more than 93.5% of the NFL

Ironically so is the defense (*)

which actually counts as offense scoring (*)

19, 23, 22, 26, 29, 32 doesn’t seem like top 3-5 offense 

[NCOUGHMAN]

48 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

 

I think that because you said, SO NOW WE NEED TO RELY ON A D
not, a strong run game, or strong wrs, just straight to relying on the D lol.

weve never relied on our D lmao. 

Meh check the game day threads when our offense gets stuck in the mud like they often do. Many are relying on the defense to keep us afloat. Which we’re not built for. 

[BackinBlack]

Just now, NCOUGHMAN said:

Ironically so is the defense (*)

which actually counts as offense scoring (*)

19, 23, 22, 26, 29, 32 doesn’t seem like top 3-5 offense 

Doesn’t seem like it to you, ok fine, but it is. lol really tough to respond to you because you’ve already said you think a top O should score every possession lmao.

the other top two teams have also had D / ST scores. I think half the league has. But yes it helps. 
 

Unfortunately, just because it doesn’t seem like a top 3-5 offense to you, doesn’t change what the fact that we are 3rd in points scored. 
 

carlson Is a big reason for us being top 3 in points scored. Maybe with a top 5 qb we are number 1. 

I don’t know how else to respond lol.

looks at points scored, sees we are number 3, claims but it doesn’t seem like a #3 so let’s just say they aren’t.

[BackinBlack]

4 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Meh check the game day threads when our offense gets stuck in the mud like they often do. Many are relying on the defense to keep us afloat. Which we’re not built for. 

Our O that has the longest drive average in the league? 
we relied on the d to not give up 16 points in ari last two possessions

ww relied up d to not start the ten game with 3 long td drives.. which impacts our O. 
 

chargers kc they were great.

Hou den are pathetic on o which we made look decent, but played well enough.

[Jeremy408]

2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Let's break this down bit by bit. 

1. 2020 and 2021 are not 2022. But thanks for reminding us all that the offense hasn't been the big problem for the Raiders. 

2. Adams is one player. We don't if McDaniels is a better coach. Some of us were highly skeptical of him before he even walked out into the field. If you had high expectations for the guy and feel let down, that's on you. But nothing about Josh McDaniels past should have stoked anything but skepticism to begin with, given his past and the coaching tree from which he fell. 

3. Fire whoever made that dumb decision. That's not a strategy, that's a gamble. 

4. You're aware how averages work, yeah? This is like saying KC should be a 40+ ppg team because after week 1 they were averaging 44 points per game. 

5. Good teams don't have savior units, so again, if that was a formal plan, that should lead to even less confidence. 

6. If the defense wasn't near league bottom, it wouldn't all come down to one drive we absolutely have to have. Why didn't the defense do it's job and stop Arizona at any of the historic points on their last couple of drives? I won't even address the defense breaking further than that because it's beyond painfully obvious. 

7. Nobody has ever advocated that our defense, particularly as long as it's called by Patrick Graham, will win us games. But they lost us plenty thus far letting big leads disappear and not getting off the field in any sort of positive manner. 

8. Strong disagree. They both made the decision to give a failure of a DC yet another scholarship opportunity. Of true note from last year, we lost Yannick and Hayward. We have objectively better players across the defense from last year (Yannick > Jones, fair enough). We have better LBs and depth, better S depth with Harmon instead of Leavitt when things go wonky, better overall CBs, and yet.....the defense is worse by virtually every single metric? That IS their fault. We didn't make changes in players that would lead to such big drop offs. The D wasn't particularly good last year, but it was better than this. So I have to disagree, they screwed up in allowing that charity case of a DC to come along and keep his job so far, and have chosen to keep him, so they need to own it And should be expected to own it.

2 & 8 are the biggest deals here

Now don't get me wrong I'm a lot higher on Ziegler than I am on McDaniels but it appears that he did screw up by getting Chandler Jones and letting yannick go. I also believe Casey Hayward was let go prematurely. In theory we could have Casey Hayward and Nate Hobbs and just of drafted a guy like Woolen(who on our team would've probably needed a year before playing but would've worked out because by the time Casey Hayward was gone he could replace him. I so yeah Zieglers not beyond contestation either

[NCOUGHMAN]

20 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Doesn’t seem like it to you, ok fine, but it is. lol really tough to respond to you because you’ve already said you think a top O should score every possession lmao.

the other top two teams have also had D / ST scores. I think half the league has. But yes it helps. 
 

Unfortunately, just because it doesn’t seem like a top 3-5 offense to you, doesn’t change what the fact that we are 3rd in points scored. 
 

carlson Is a big reason for us being top 3 in points scored. Maybe with a top 5 qb we are number 1. 

I don’t know how else to respond lol.

looks at points scored, sees we are number 3, claims but it doesn’t seem like a #3 so let’s just say they aren’t.

25.1 points per game is top 5?

[BackinBlack]

1 minute ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

25.1 points per game is top 5?

No you’re doing that thing again where you only take points away from us, instead of every other team. 
but you’ve said you like to use unfair/ biased stats, so it makes sense.

that said, it would be 7th. Still should be winning games with top 7 O imo. 
 

not yours, we can agree to disagree, the only way to win is with a top 2 O, right?