QB Talk Once Again.... sigh

[WheatieMan]

The value of the deal absolutely must go down if they are doing a post-June 1st. Packers would be saving draft space in lieu accepting lesser compensation.

I would do 24' first round pick (or very loose conditional, barring Wentz type of injuries), swap of 1sts in 23', and a third or fourth this year. That's fair value IMO, for a pre-June 1st, considering the 9 million dead money hit the Pack would absorb plus any additional base this year. They'd basically sacrifice being a playoff team this year. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by WheatieMan

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, WheatieMan said:

The value of the deal absolutely must go down if they are doing a post-June 1st. Packers would be saving draft space in lieu accepting lesser compensation.

Except the Packers aren't A) getting picks they can use to help Jordan Love in 2023 and B) Packers have to eat dead cap in 2024, which is probably what they're trying to avoid.

[xrade]

If I was the Jets GM, I'd look to sign Mariotta or Wentz.  Or trade for Brissett.  We need a better backup than Zach anyway.  But the real reason is to force GB's hand.  Sign a QB that play (even if poorly but not Zach poorly), make your last best offer, stop with the talks.  Lets see what happens then.

[Bobby816]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

IMO, if the deal isn't done by the end of next week it won't happen until the week of the draft.  There's no real pressure for either side to complete the deal in that dead period in between.

And again, there's no backup plan for the Jets.  They can't tell the Packers to adjust their trade demands or they're going to sign Carr or Jimmy G instead.  The Packers know the Jets need Aaron Rodgers.  And they don't have a backup option.  They'll apply pressure that way.  And again, the take it or leave it approach only works when there's an alternative in place.  You lower your package the longer the Packers hold out, the more the Packers are going to dig in.  The Packers could use that same leverage tactic as well.  Accept our deal or in a week it's going to cost you additional picks.

LIS, what comes first, the Jets' OTAs and TC or Week 1 of the regular season?  It's highly unlikely the Jets would wait until after TC and OTAs to acquire Rodgers.

Jets take that approach and they likely go with the approach that they're ok with rolling with Zach. Yes we know that's not true. But that is an option they can say. Is that really any different than you guys saying you're rolling with Love? What has Love done? You turning to Love is more needed for you guys (because you have to see what he has before he's a FA) than us being ok with going with Zach (we still have him for 2 years+)

 

The difference of either side playing hardball and digging in. Is we can easily stay firm and ride it out. We don't upgrade at QB. But there's no tarnish to the Jets in it all. The 90%+ of the fan base is behind not overpaying for AR really. Not for a likely 1 year rental of a 39 year old. When Ramsey who is 28 is going for a 3rd rounder.

Now from a fan perspective it's easy to just say GB can wait this out. Maybe this is bc GB isn't used to be generally in main stream media with players (besides AR a few years ago, when that was YOUR OWN DOING by drafting a 1st round QB). But the media will beat you up on how he's given you 18 years, a SB, consistently every year a winning team (pretty much), filled your seats pretty much on his own, etc. That you 100% are done with him and he's done with you. Yet you wont grant his trade wish bc of being stingy with price thinking that a guy that's 39 years old is worth a 1st plus. All while guys in their 20s aren't even going for that that are elite at their positions.

 

There's no way that a GB fan thinks that AR is worth a 1st, this is the most childish thing I've seen.

It's like seeing a kid that loves his average baseball players card but its his favorite baseball player asking a price for it 10 times more than it's value bc it's his favorite player. I get he gave you guys a ton. But he's 39 and is maybe only playing 1 season. Make a reasonable trade. The fact that we're even talking about 2nd rounder quite frankly is ridiculous.

 

[StatKing]

42 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

That's just not happening I don't think.

And you think they're ok looking like villain to 31 other teams, players of their own and future players, etc?

All over a price they know is ridiculous.

 

One of the best CBs in Ramsey that is still only 28 years old... went for a 3rd rounder and a backup TE.

In what world would that make GB think well if Ramsey went for that.... AR is worth a 1st?

 

Makes no sense. When GB wants to be real.... then the talks can continue.

 

I think it's in the Jets best interest to make it crystal clear what there offer is right now. Give a deadline in the next 24hrs that GB has until then to accept it. You don't accept it in that time frame... and the offer goes lower and you get a new timeframe. And the Jets can play that game all offseason all while GB looks awful. And eventually GB will then trade him to us. If they're smart knowing that's the jets approach... they accept ASAP. It would be the highest offer and not make them look awful in the media (any worse than they already are).

I don't think they care about perception. I agree with you that it makes them look awful and I wouldn't drag it out that long either but our front office is run by a guy with a massive ego.

 

[StatKing]

19 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Jets take that approach and they likely go with the approach that they're ok with rolling with Zach. Yes we know that's not true. But that is an option they can say. Is that really any different than you guys saying you're rolling with Love? What has Love done? You turning to Love is more needed for you guys (because you have to see what he has before he's a FA) than us being ok with going with Zach (we still have him for 2 years+)

 

The difference of either side playing hardball and digging in. Is we can easily stay firm and ride it out. We don't upgrade at QB. But there's no tarnish to the Jets in it all. The 90%+ of the fan base is behind not overpaying for AR really. Not for a likely 1 year rental of a 39 year old. When Ramsey who is 28 is going for a 3rd rounder.

Now from a fan perspective it's easy to just say GB can wait this out. Maybe this is bc GB isn't used to be generally in main stream media with players (besides AR a few years ago, when that was YOUR OWN DOING by drafting a 1st round QB). But the media will beat you up on how he's given you 18 years, a SB, consistently every year a winning team (pretty much), filled your seats pretty much on his own, etc. That you 100% are done with him and he's done with you. Yet you wont grant his trade wish bc of being stingy with price thinking that a guy that's 39 years old is worth a 1st plus. All while guys in their 20s aren't even going for that that are elite at their positions.

 

There's no way that a GB fan thinks that AR is worth a 1st, this is the most childish thing I've seen.

It's like seeing a kid that loves his average baseball players card but its his favorite baseball player asking a price for it 10 times more than it's value bc it's his favorite player. I get he gave you guys a ton. But he's 39 and is maybe only playing 1 season. Make a reasonable trade. The fact that we're even talking about 2nd rounder quite frankly is ridiculous.

 

You must not visit the Packers forum often. Some of them think it's possible we get multiple firsts.

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, StatKing said:

I don't think they care about perception. I agree with you that it makes them look awful and I wouldn't drag it out that long either but our front office is run by a guy with a massive ego.

 

And he very well might do that. But the long term harm done by that is HUGE.

You think if Love pans out he wants to stay for a long time after seeing how AR is being treated? You think any current player wants this lingering for 5-6 weeks? No way. The PR and long term harm it does. Isn't worth it. I'd get digging my heals in if AR was 35. But that's not the case. 

[StatKing]

3 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

And he very well might do that. But the long term harm done by that is HUGE.

You think if Love pans out he wants to stay for a long time after seeing how AR is being treated? You think any current player wants this lingering for 5-6 weeks? No way. The PR and long term harm it does. Isn't worth it. I'd get digging my heals in if AR was 35. But that's not the case. 

We've been through worse and they know it. Favre would literally cry at the podium announcing his retirement in February, saying how spent he is and how he could no longer do it, only to show up mid July and say he wants to keep playing. That happened like 3 years in a row. This is nothing compared to that.

[Bobby816]

7 minutes ago, StatKing said:

We've been through worse and they know it. Favre would literally cry at the podium announcing his retirement in February, saying how spent he is and how he could no longer do it, only to show up mid July and say he wants to keep playing. That happened like 3 years in a row. This is nothing compared to that.

AR is a guy that is done with you guys though. Playing for you isn't an option. Its Jets or retirement. 

[doumeyer]

Now the big snag is the Packers want our 13 overall pick in the draft, Yea right after they killed our FA period. 

[KingOfNewYork]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

Not sure how long you've bene on this board... but I had to for years listen to people say that the good teams like GB are good all the time. Is bc they hit on those mid round and later draft pick guys.

I think I've been here longer than you lol but yes I remember those points. 

[Bobby816]

55 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

I think I've been here longer than you lol but yes I remember those points. 

I can’t remember who’s older in here or newer. Sorry.

 

Every team I think values their own more so than others. And that’s why in most cases the team trading away the player is more times than not, the disappointed ones. That’s why I was incredibly surprised by the package we got for Adams and even Darnold. I didn’t think we’d get that value. Yet we did. I certainly didn’t expect it. What that does show is that JD rarely loses in a trade. I think the only trade where it looked like we lost value wise was when we traded up for AVT. Yet since he’s panned out. Does it matter now? I don’t think so.

 

Something GB fans really don’t talk about is how we traded for a QB that was great with them years ago and what that trade looked like. I know it’s a different regime on either side. But that should be the starting point. And what they’re asking for is vastly more than what the trade was years ago.

This was the trade in 2008… Favre for a fourth-round draft pick. The pick turns into a third-round selection if Favre plays in 50 percent of the plays, a second-rounder if he plays in 70 percent of the plays and the Jets qualify for the playoffs, and a first-round pick if he plays in 80 percent of the plays and Jets make it to the Super Bowl.

 

Favre at that time was also 39. And was coming off a season nearly identical to what Rodgers is.

 

JD knows this. And I don’t expect us to give up much more than that Fabre package. As a Jets FAN… I’d be willing to give up more bc I’m starved for a QB. But JD is the business man. And likely wont move too much off that Favre type deal.

 

For me I say I’ll swap 1sts with you where we go to 15 and they get 13 (late 3rd round value) and then offer a nearly identical deal to what it was for Favre for the draft compensation in 2024.

 

Make that the final offer.

[KimuraGod]

I just want to clarify I’m all aboard the Rodgers train. I have wanted him for months ever since the first rumours started. 
 

However…..

 

Doesn't it make much more sense to go get Lamar if GB are demanding multiple firsts?? We could go get Lamar for that and have him here for the next 6-10 years dependant on health.
 

That makes more sense than Rodgers on a 1 year deal max maybe 2 years.
 

Fans around the league say they have us by the balls but I disagree. We all need each other to make this work. If GB play hard ball then you move to Lamar. The fan base would still be ecstatic. We’d still be a playoff team etc. 

 

I just can’t for the life of me understand why a deal wasn’t agreed before we met with Rodgers. It makes zero sense. 

 

 

[Bobby816]

11 minutes ago, KimuraGod said:

I just want to clarify I’m all aboard the Rodgers train. I have wanted him for months ever since the first rumours started. 
 

However…..

 

Doesn't it make much more sense to go get Lamar if GB are demanding multiple firsts?? We could go get Lamar for that and have him here for the next 6-10 years dependant on health.
 

That makes more sense than Rodgers on a 1 year deal max maybe 2 years.
 

Fans around the league say they have us by the balls but I disagree. We all need each other to make this work. If GB play hard ball then you move to Lamar. The fan base would still be ecstatic. We’d still be a playoff team etc. 

 

I just can’t for the life of me understand why a deal wasn’t agreed before we met with Rodgers. It makes zero sense. 

 

 

Difference being BAL can match. It’s not as simple as give Lamar a good deal and 2 1st and call it a day. BAL can match our offer. So it’s not an option to say we’ll turn to that if GB doesn’t lower their price.

 

Also realize no one has even tried to get Lamar yet and it’s been a day and a half nearly since teams could reach out to him.

[CWood21]

3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Jets take that approach and they likely go with the approach that they're ok with rolling with Zach. Yes we know that's not true. But that is an option they can say. Is that really any different than you guys saying you're rolling with Love? What has Love done? You turning to Love is more needed for you guys (because you have to see what he has before he's a FA) than us being ok with going with Zach (we still have him for 2 years+)

 

The difference of either side playing hardball and digging in. Is we can easily stay firm and ride it out. We don't upgrade at QB. But there's no tarnish to the Jets in it all. The 90%+ of the fan base is behind not overpaying for AR really. Not for a likely 1 year rental of a 39 year old. When Ramsey who is 28 is going for a 3rd rounder.

Now from a fan perspective it's easy to just say GB can wait this out. Maybe this is bc GB isn't used to be generally in main stream media with players (besides AR a few years ago, when that was YOUR OWN DOING by drafting a 1st round QB). But the media will beat you up on how he's given you 18 years, a SB, consistently every year a winning team (pretty much), filled your seats pretty much on his own, etc. That you 100% are done with him and he's done with you. Yet you wont grant his trade wish bc of being stingy with price thinking that a guy that's 39 years old is worth a 1st plus. All while guys in their 20s aren't even going for that that are elite at their positions.

 

There's no way that a GB fan thinks that AR is worth a 1st, this is the most childish thing I've seen.

It's like seeing a kid that loves his average baseball players card but its his favorite baseball player asking a price for it 10 times more than it's value bc it's his favorite player. I get he gave you guys a ton. But he's 39 and is maybe only playing 1 season. Make a reasonable trade. The fact that we're even talking about 2nd rounder quite frankly is ridiculous.

Do you really believe Woody Johnson is going to be happy if Douglas goes to him and says that the Packers are being unreasonable and they're going to roll with Zach Wilson instead?  Especially with how public the Jets have been about moving on from.  If Zach Wilson wasn't already an outcast in the locker room, he would be even worse if the Jets failed to land Aaron Rodgers.

And I think a ~FRP is actually very reasonable value for a player of Rodgers' caliber.  We've seen worse QBs go for what Jets' fans are willing to offer.  There's no QB available that makes the Jets a title contender outside of Rodgers.  And there probably won't be one for the foreseeable future.