GDT - Week 15 - The Patriots visit Vegas and Josh McDaniel's Raiders

[m haynes]

37 minutes ago, Crimmage said:

I'm not a fire BB guy,

Why not. He's run his course.  Answer one question will he make major change with the offense. Will he bring new people and ideas. Or will he keep the same guy and just move them around.  Also I don't see Obbie as the answer matter of fact it just another moving piece.

There are no answers ON THAT staff.  You know it and I know it. You also know he won't major change. So why would you keep him???? Reward for the past, some dumb  record. I could care less about.  The only thing  I care about is winning, 3 years nothing and going backward.

The only reason is that you still hold on to the genius !!!. Well, who the genius that hired Fat Matt with a 2nd year QB!!!!!!!

Ask yourself if your decision is based on your heart or what you see (brain) each week. This should be easy after watching this train wreck started by the man in charge.

 

 

[Deadpulse]

it could be worse, we could have Tom Brady and have an even worse record. 

[Crimmage]

It's difficult for me for a few reasons, my brains thinking the following: 

• BB is a defensive coach, who has helped coach a championship level defense imo. A defense which just ran out a bunch of slot corners and was able to shut down what should be a very good offense. 
• I really like Matt Groh, the Patriots had a 4-5 year stretch of awful drafts.. they seem to have corrected that the last 2-3 years.. so I feel a lot better about getting talent
• BB being a defensive coach, should have an OC which he just gives the offense to. Basically like has has with Josh for years.. he seems to have done that with Judge and Patricia.. but they are awful.. so I blame him 100% for that. 
• I like Cam Achord, but he kind of sucks.. Joe Judge should have just gone back to coaching special teams... but overall he's been better this year than last year. I'm trying to not think too far into todays punt block.. you can survive with Achord as your special teams coordinator. 
• Not having a QB coach, when you have a 2nd year QB is insane
• BB feels like he doesn't like Mac anymore, benching him in the Chicago game.. not trusting him to throw.. basically saying he has a noodle arm today.. this is the most confusing part of it all for me. 

 

Basically I believe you can win a championship with 2/3 of this team .. but the offense is so far from average that they wont even be a playoff team. If you fire BB you could lose the parts you've got solidified with this team... that's a risk. 

 

If you fire him, who are you going to hire? Beg Vrabel to come here? Bill O'Brien? Promote Mayo (he's going to leave for a HC job anyway) and try to keep the the defensive staff intact while looking for an OC? The trend is to hire a young hotshot OC as your HC, would they blow up the defensive staff? 

 

I think the smartest move is: 

- Promote Mayo to DC so he stays a couple more years hopefully. Steve isn't leaving with his dad here, BB needs to try and keep Mayo here until he retires to solidify the defense. Mayo could end up being a good replacement eventually.. I could see Kraft also pushing for Vrabel to come here too. 

- BB realizes he messed up and hires an OC who he gives free reign to hire / move around the offensive coaching staff

- Make Joe Judge and Cam Achord Co-Special Teams Coordinators as long as he's being paid by the Giants then figure it out from there

[Hunter2_1]

I wouldn’t take anything Bill says at the press box with any genuineness. Says what he needs to say to get them to stop, so he can go home. 
 

this was predictable. Not the way in which it happened, but the outcome. Ex Belichick disciple beating Bill who now has an OC who’s learning on the job. Who‘S actually surprised.

[m haynes]

12 hours ago, Crimmage said:

I really like Matt Groh, the Patriots had a 4-5 year stretch of awful drafts

Two thing Matt hides BB player valuation.

Who said he has to go. They could go for a young guy that agrees to Kraft's  terms.  EX Mahomes QB coach or some offensive guy just like Mayo. No I'm not saying Mayo.

12 hours ago, Crimmage said:

basically saying he has a noodle arm today.

This shows he desperate and is telling you its a mess. IMO this just to hold on and justify what he's put together. Basically it about him and time needs to get the record. He see it slipping away with the Pats. Mr Kraft its not me if I had a QB I wouldn't be in this mess. Look what i have done give me more time!!!!!!!!  BB later that night, wow that was close!!!!!

 

12 hours ago, Crimmage said:

should have an OC which he just gives the offense to. Basically like has has with Josh for years

One Josh offense is outdated. IMO he is the product of Tom Brady. Yesterday it was like watching two Pats teams. The Raiders are a mess they/Carr played better without Adams and Josh , think about that!!!!!   IMO Josh is only good working with QB's. His offensive game is old and not effective. 

12 hours ago, Crimmage said:

Beg Vrabel to come here? Bill O'Brien? Promote Mayo (he's going to leave for a HC job anyway) and try to keep the the defensive staff intact while looking for an OC? The trend is to hire a young hotshot OC as your HC, would they blow up the defensive staff? 

I want none of these thing to happen.  Mayo that's a joke created by Curran and his boys. Mayo is Currans ( free excess)  buddy they are the ones promoting Mayo, crap. What has he done. Curran has everyone thinking he's the next great thing. There's one reason why fans want him he's a EX Pats that learned everything from BB, and so did Fat Matt!!!!  Vrabel , thats the same thing, moving pieces around. Vrabel has his own Brady it's Henry!!!!! He has frigging (his guy) Ryan Tannehill. Take Henry away and they have today's Pats offense.

12 hours ago, Crimmage said:

 

I think the smartest move is: ( nothing here that I can agree with)

Sorry this is not going to change anything. It just a band aid on the problem.  All your moves are to keep what we had during the glory days or suggest something that  BB will not do,even if Kraft tells him to get OC, it will be Obbie or another Pats guy. Matter of fact in all your suggestions bring us right back to the problem, the  Pats way.  You are trying to keep the old Pats alive but you are forgetting one thing. There is no Tom Brady walking threw the door !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited December 19, 2022 by m haynes

[Crimmage]

4 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

I wouldn’t take anything Bill says at the press box with any genuineness. Says what he needs to say to get them to stop, so he can go home. 
 

this was predictable. Not the way in which it happened, but the outcome. Ex Belichick disciple beating Bill who now has an OC who’s learning on the job. Who‘S actually surprised.

I agree to an extent, it's just incredibly surprising to see Bill say comments that feel like he is throwing his QB under the bus. This morning he was a bit better, defending his completion %,etc. but it's a lot more deflecting last couple of years than we are used to. It feels like things are going to escalate the last three weeks of the year, primarily because I think they will only beat Miami or a Buffalo team who rest everyone. Kraft is going to ask him what the heck happened this year.. and his response is going to be to blame Mac for not buying into the program. 

 

One of the things that surprised me even when we drafted Mac was that I thought BB would actually want a running QB post Brady. 

1) He always struggles against them .. all of the teams who have a top QB under 35 can run (some more than others) .. that's the direction of the league

2) He wants to be a running team.. he has a bunch of RB's, wants to control time of possession, etc.

3) Having a Cam win a few games on the ground eased them into that.. now imagine if the guy could throw a bit too! 

4) If he is happy with the screen / quick pass offense which doesn't really require the most accurate QB in the world .. you can get the ball down the field much easier with a gameplan of: look for the easy pass and if it isn't there run for 3-5 yards .. instead of look for the easy pass or throw it away / take the sack so that you don't cause a turnover

 

Lamar Jackson could have done that.. Justin Fields could have been that ... Anthony Richardson could do that (he is EXTREMELY developmental) .. Mac and Zappe can't. You could have gotten away with the Patricia mess this year with a running QB.. but if they want to continue going with pocket passers you need an actual OC. 

[1ForTheThumb]

I'm usually not one to overract, but it would both not 1) surprise me, and 2) I wouldn't be opposed to Kraft and Belichick parting ways. The guy is 70 years old, and the staff choices this year were borderline malpractice. Unless he's willing to do a complete shake up of the coaching staff going into next year, there's no way he stays imo. This team has been really poorly coached, conversative, etc. the last couple years, and Kraft has already made comments. 

Kraft has never been scared to make a big move.

[1ForTheThumb]

Also, not to defend Belichick, but I think the Jones arm strength comment is being taken out of context. I would think (hope) he meant combined with how poor our OL is, that he wouldn't have the time to get off that type of hail mary. Otherwise, he's just lying and deflecting the blame.

[m haynes]

13 hours ago, Apparition said:

Thought of a pretty good name for that play, but I can't say it in public

I have one, Toilet flush!!!!!

[m haynes]

12 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

I don’t wanna go to the playoffs and get destroyed again tbh 

This says everything. 

Can you believe that a Pats fan would say this??

I with you 1000%. 

PS Shaking my head while I write this. Sad

[ChazStandard]

So what are we thinking for the nickname? Sin City Screw Up? Lateral Damage?

Also, the ending has kinda distracted from the fact it should never have come to that. That TD was obviously out of bounds, and the refs hosed us.

[Crimmage]

2 minutes ago, ChazStandard said:

So what are we thinking for the nickname? Sin City Screw Up? Lateral Damage?

Also, the ending has kinda distracted from the fact it should never have come to that. That TD was obviously out of bounds, and the refs hosed us.

TD was def out, but I blame them for putting themselves in that situation. 

1) They had an awful offensive series before that which could have ended the game... even rolling out Mac as if he was going to run for a 1st

2) They played prevent .. letting them have a chance at the TD.. the defense had been dominating, just keep playing your game

 

We are going to see a lot of videos of the refs screw ups today.. including them not letting Mac snap the ball on the Agholor catch which was overturned.. but at the end of the day.. the offense keeps going backwards. They didn't deserve to win that game given the massive number of mistakes they had. 

 

My biggest concern for this year was that not only would it be a lost year for Mac but that he would be ruined as a QB. Unfortunately we are trending in that direction now.. this was the first game where it felt like Patricia was in Mac's head during the plays. First half he was right to get angry with plays coming in too late,etc.. but he was also missing passes left and right. His anger showed in his arm and if that's a look at the next 3 games... boy does it feel like things are about to implode. 

[m haynes]

1 hour ago, Crimmage said:

surprised me even when we drafted Mac was that I thought BB would actually want a running QB post Brady.

BB didn't draft him, Groh did.  You can watch the video when they picked him. BB said Matt are you sure!!!!! BB wanted IMO Mills. He had to take Mac becasue Kraft laid down the law that he needed to listen to his draft people and if he went against them he would be defying Kraft with him in the room.

BB was caught in a corner. He knew he had to take him. The press and public would of had a field day, something he could not risk. 

1 hour ago, Crimmage said:

Lamar Jackson could have done that.. Justin Fields could have been that ... Anthony Richardson could do that (he is EXTREMELY developmental)

Two things, to put Fields and Richardson in the same sentence with Jackson is (sorry no disrespect ) laughable. They can only wish to be that good. Also Jackson with his incredible talent, what has he won, IMO he brings you only so far. That offense has no chance to win a SB. They have beat the elite teams that would pass them out of the building.  Forgot also Jackson might be o the back nine, he's been lucky so far but with age and his game injures start to happen. 

Why do you think they haven't signed him.... becasue they are concerned about his future risk.

Note, I will never be a fan of a run 1st QB. I can't see winning a SB with one.  

PS  I consider Jalen Hurst a (barely) pass 1st QB but I'm not sure if he has enough talent to win a SB. He might thou, if they have a great defense.

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by m haynes

[m haynes]

14 minutes ago, ChazStandard said:

Lateral Damage?

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA  

Perfect,

Edited December 19, 2022 by m haynes

[Crimmage]

Just now, m haynes said:

BB didn't draft him, Groh did.  You can watch the video when they picked him. BB said Matt are you sure!!!!! BB wanted IMO Mills. He had to take Mac becasue Kraft laid down the law that he needed to listen to his draft people and if he went against them he would be defying Kraft with him in the room.

BB was caught in a corner. He knew he had to take him. The press and public would of had a field day, something he could not risk. 

If that is the case, and it's totally possible he viewed them as the same player.. either way it is a failure. I think Mac is better but in the current situation both of those guys would be failures. 

Just now, m haynes said:

Two things, to put Fields and Richardson in the same sentence with Jackson is (sorry) laughable. They can only wish to be that good. Also Jackson with his incredable talent what has he won, IMO he bring only so far. RThat offense has no chance to win a SB. They have beat the elite team that would pass them out of the building.  Forgot also Jackson migh be o the back nine, he's been lucky so far but with age and his game injures start to happen. 

Why do you think they haven't signed him.... becasue they are concerned about his future risk.

Note, I will never be a fan of a run 1st QB. I can't see winning a SB with one.  

PS  I consider Jalen Hurst a pass 1st QB but I'm not sure if he has enough talent to win a SB. He might thou, if they have a great defense.

Oh yeah, Jalen Hurts was a 2nd round pick.. good point.. him too. 

That was the year Brady left, wasn't it? But we were all on the Stidham hype train and ignored QB in the draft? .. yeah.. missed opportunities