2018 QBs

[bruceb]

10 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

I really hope Hue isn't there to pick the QB and 'tutor' him. Which is weird because two years ago I thought he was a QB savant and one of the best you could hope for.

Whoever it ends up being, he needs a young, offensive minded coach to help him. Like McVay and Goff. Not Hue who will be too busy throwing him under the bus at the first sign of growing pains.

Hueball would start him game 1, too.

[Kathouse Sticks]

4 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

Yeah I thought that was a little over the top!  Could be though, I have a feeling scouts are higher on him than us amateurs. I still like him but he’s too incomplete for me to put him at 1. Also still too early for me to anoint anybody yet. Got a ways to go. 

I’m just now looking at this thread, but if there are any Josh Allen fans out here, there’s this:

The Josh Allen lovers can love but fact is no QB in last 12-14 years with completion % as low as Allen has had success in NFL. Most end up as very average backups or outright busts. Can’t argue w/facts- via Greg Gabriel tweet. 

[Kathouse Sticks]

Regarding other QBs in this class, he’s the only one able to hit small windows in and out of the pocket to all areas of the field. It’s not news, nor am I on an island. It’s the whole reason he’s being discussed.  But hey, he didn’t throw enough with a 20pt lead to impress you.

Josh Allen is the only QB in this class...that can hit small windows?

Whew. For the first time in my life I genuinely am speechless with incredulity.

Biggest knock on him is he is possibly the least accurate passer in this class...but whew.

I’m just following tweets and these are what are up on Allen...

 

[Kathouse Sticks]

5 minutes ago, Kathouse Sticks said:

Regarding other QBs in this class, he’s the only one able to hit small windows in and out of the pocket to all areas of the field. It’s not news, nor am I on an island. It’s the whole reason he’s being discussed.  But hey, he didn’t throw enough with a 20pt lead to impress you.

Josh Allen is the only QB in this class...that can hit small windows?

Whew. For the first time in my life I genuinely am speechless with incredulity.

Biggest knock on him is he is possibly the least accurate passer in this class...but whew.

I’m just following tweets and these are what are up on Allen...

 

Let me preface this by saying I do not watch college football at all. So, I have no idea about the top QB prospects. But what I will say, is that if Allen is that inaccurate, I wouldn’t touch him with a ten foot pole.  Period. 

If we are taking a QB with the #1 overall pick, not only do I want someone who will get better, but I want someone who can play the position. I’m not saying they have to play right away, but I want a quarterback, not an average back up or bust. 

Who is that?  I have no idea. That’s up to Dorsey et. al. to figure that out. 

[hornbybrown]

Josh Allen is not going to be a good NFL QB. If we draft him I will cry

[Dogbite]

1 hour ago, hornbybrown said:

Josh Allen is not going to be a good NFL QB. If we draft him I will cry

I see sooooo much Derek Anderson in him its scary. He's obviously far superior athletically but when it comes to a passer they are carbon copies.

[Reginaldm9]

Just tuned into like 4 game videos of Josh Allen on Youtube. He's got a great arm but never really looks past his first read. Can't see us taking him since Kizer is essentially the same player. 

[Aztec Hammer]

You can't justify taking a 56% passer that isn't ready to play for a while yet, if you're as bad as the Browns. Especially number one overall.

[pnies20]

He's got a better arm than Kizer. He's also more accurate than Kizer... which isn't saying much.

[Aztec Hammer]

1 minute ago, pnies20 said:

He's got a better arm than Kizer. He's also more accurate than Kizer... which isn't saying much.

He's got a much better arm than Kizer and is more athletic. But yep, that's not saying much when both of them have poor accuracy and are uncomfortable in the pocket processing the game at speed.

Allen looks a bit less clunky but he has this tendency to bail out of the pocket to his right.

I can't wait for the UCLA and USC Bowl games. Rosen should be nailed on to declare afterwards but that USC-Ohio State game is a wildcard. Either way, it's not long now until we know.

[FGK]

20 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

Sheesh dude, terrible take?  Yeah it was moreso hyperbole than anything. The cat I was replying to was advocating taking him #1. If you’ve read my posts I’ve defended Lamar as a throw first qb. 

But im not high on him at all as an nfl qb. I hate to say it to you but I will never ever ever again use completion percentage as a tool to measure a guys accuracy. EVER! I personally don’t see him being accurate at all. Especially when he’s pressured. I also see him throwing mostly to wide open guys. Just so you know I’m starting to hear chatter that teams are going to ask him to also work out at WR. Just in case he can’t transition to qb in the nfl. 

Now I do agree if he’s there in the 2nd round I would probably take a shot on him. Dude is an electric college qb. 

You literally said the guy isn't a QB. I don't track people's posts to pay attention to their positions on individual players, and it's not like it's a position that hasn't received some backing from certain draft people (Kiper).

Already acknowledged that CMPL% isn't a perfect, or even good, tool. Just noticing that people dump on Jackson SPECIFICALLY for his CMPL% when he's not much worse than the other top guys. I wouldn't bring it up if it wasn't a talking point for the "Lamar isn't a QB" crew.

If you only see him throwing to wide open guys, then you're not watching him very carefully. Just being honest. I watched (and posted above) a five minute highlight video and it have a bunch of them for goodness sakes, a highlight video! All college QBs throw to open guys more often than not, hell, most NFL QBs do too. You have to watch for the throws into tight windows when they happen and how well they do on those few. I mean seriously, is Darnold throwing into tight coverage every single play? How many TD's and 50+ yard passes did Mayfield hit where the defender was 2-3 yards away from the WR/TE? That's one of the main concerns about him (Mayfield) but it rarely gets brought up, whereas everytime I hear someone mention Jackson it's "oh, all his throws are to wide open guys". Which doesn't even make sense when his supporting cast isn't very good and he's playing in the same type of system as Mayfield and Rosen.

My basic point is that Jackson gets criticized for things that the other top prospects do as well that they don't get criticized for, and I think it's mainly because he has the "running QB" label.

And now people are going bananas over one freaking Josh Allen game. Come on. Dude was WAY, WAY more inconsistent and inaccurate all year than Jackson or any of the other top QBs. He literally has NOTHING to commend him as a prospect outside of physical tools. He's inaccurate, he leaves the pocket too soon a lot, he makes weird choices and chucks it up for grabs, I have no idea how he's continuing to get this much hype except for the Bortles factor (tall, athletic guy with strong arm and not much else).

It's freaking white knight syndrome or something. People look at this massively talented, and deeply flawed, QB prospect who showed some real promise early in his career and then regressed hard, and they say, "We can fix him." 

Aw hell. He's Christian Hackenberg isn't he?

[FGK]

11 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

He's got a much better arm than Kizer and is more athletic. But yep, that's not saying much when both of them have poor accuracy and are uncomfortable in the pocket processing the game at speed.

Allen looks a bit less clunky but he has this tendency to bail out of the pocket to his right.

I can't wait for the UCLA and USC Bowl games. Rosen should be nailed on to declare afterwards but that USC-Ohio State game is a wildcard. Either way, it's not long now until we know.

What? Come on people. Just because Kizer has stunk this year doesn't mean we need to exaggerate. Dude has a freaking cannon. I mean, half his good plays this year have been 45+ yard bombs. Allen MIGHT have a slight edge, but it's not huge. And we'll see his testing numbers, but I don't think he's much more athletic either.

If anything, I think Allen is the QB prospect in this draft that most resembles Kizer.

Big Arm
Athletic runner, but mainly stays in the pocket
Poor accuracy
Slow reads
The hope is that their surrounding cast/situation made them look worse than they are

They're twins. And like Kizer, I think Allen should go in the 2nd-3rd round as a lottery ticket rather than someone you are banking on as an immediate (2018 or 2019) starter.

[Bonanza23]

44 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

You literally said the guy isn't a QB. I don't track people's posts to pay attention to their positions on individual players, and it's not like it's a position that hasn't received some backing from certain draft people (Kiper).

Already acknowledged that CMPL% isn't a perfect, or even good, tool. Just noticing that people dump on Jackson SPECIFICALLY for his CMPL% when he's not much worse than the other top guys. I wouldn't bring it up if it wasn't a talking point for the "Lamar isn't a QB" crew.

If you only see him throwing to wide open guys, then you're not watching him very carefully. Just being honest. I watched (and posted above) a five minute highlight video and it have a bunch of them for goodness sakes, a highlight video! All college QBs throw to open guys more often than not, hell, most NFL QBs do too. You have to watch for the throws into tight windows when they happen and how well they do on those few. I mean seriously, is Darnold throwing into tight coverage every single play? How many TD's and 50+ yard passes did Mayfield hit where the defender was 2-3 yards away from the WR/TE? That's one of the main concerns about him (Mayfield) but it rarely gets brought up, whereas everytime I hear someone mention Jackson it's "oh, all his throws are to wide open guys". Which doesn't even make sense when his supporting cast isn't very good and he's playing in the same type of system as Mayfield and Rosen.

My basic point is that Jackson gets criticized for things that the other top prospects do as well that they don't get criticized for, and I think it's mainly because he has the "running QB" label.

And now people are going bananas over one freaking Josh Allen game. Come on. Dude was WAY, WAY more inconsistent and inaccurate all year than Jackson or any of the other top QBs. He literally has NOTHING to commend him as a prospect outside of physical tools. He's inaccurate, he leaves the pocket too soon a lot, he makes weird choices and chucks it up for grabs, I have no idea how he's continuing to get this much hype except for the Bortles factor (tall, athletic guy with strong arm and not much else).

It's freaking white knight syndrome or something. People look at this massively talented, and deeply flawed, QB prospect who showed some real promise early in his career and then regressed hard, and they say, "We can fix him." 

Aw hell. He's Christian Hackenberg isn't he?

You must of missed where I said that post was hyperbole. Ok you don’t track my posts, that’s fine but I find it odd you find the most negative one concerning Jackson. I’ve actually said many times I don’t think he’s a run first qb. I have noticed the past couple years he has worked on being a pass first qb. You and I are just not going to agree about his accuracy. It’s just not good. Sorry I don’t use highlight videos to watch for any consistency of a trait in a qb. Only way you can note consistency is inside a full game. Short video of every throw in a game is ok. But the actual whole game is best. That way you can get a feel for what’s actually going on.  He’s a great college qb, I just don’t see him being a great nfl qb. 

Lets be real Allen had a great game yesterday. Had very nice accuracy and threw some dimes. That’s all I said yesterday. I watched more of him last year at his peak hype. He was madly inconsistent with his accuracy. Very Jackson like if you will   A comparison I see to nfl qb is toothlessberger with less accuracy. 

[FGK]

1 minute ago, Bonanza23 said:

Lets be real Allen had a great game yesterday. Had very nice accuracy and threw some dimes. That’s all I said yesterday. I watched more of him last year at his peak hype. He was madly inconsistent with his accuracy. Very Jackson like if you will   A comparison I see to nfl qb is toothlessberger with less accuracy. 

The Allen part of my post was in response to the rest of the discussion. I probably should've found a different post to quote, but I was too lazy.

Personally, I think his pro comparison is easy. It's Bortles/Hackenburg.

[Aztec Hammer]

54 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

What? Come on people. Just because Kizer has stunk this year doesn't mean we need to exaggerate. Dude has a freaking cannon. I mean, half his good plays this year have been 45+ yard bombs. Allen MIGHT have a slight edge, but it's not huge. And we'll see his testing numbers, but I don't think he's much more athletic either.

If anything, I think Allen is the QB prospect in this draft that most resembles Kizer.

Big Arm
Athletic runner, but mainly stays in the pocket
Poor accuracy
Slow reads
The hope is that their surrounding cast/situation made them look worse than they are

They're twins. And like Kizer, I think Allen should go in the 2nd-3rd round as a lottery ticket rather than someone you are banking on as an immediate (2018 or 2019) starter.

Probably shouldn't have much better but I do personally think Kizer's arm is overrated a bit. And I think Allen has a laser.

Outside of that I pretty much agreed with your post. Though I think Allen is more athletic and a more natural thrower on the run.

Both developmental guys. But if I was a good team like the Steelers, I'd be more enthusiastic about developing Allen than Kizer.