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The STL Cardinals Thread - Is It The Offseason Yet?


CWood21

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13 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

This is an all around bad situation. Not enough talent, injuries, bad coaching, bad luck. We haven’t really been good in awhile. We have been average with one hot month in the last two seasons. Never a particularly bad long month. Now those average months are turning to bad months. It’s going to take an extra long hot streak, or two extended hot streaks for us to do anything. A lot of “if’s” and “but’s” with this team. 

I honestly don't think the talent is the problem. I think Oli promotes a hostile team environment dating back to Yadi's absence and doesn't know how to learn from his mistakes. That's a bad combo to lead a clubhouse. 

The players have definitely underperformed, but I don't see it as a lack of talent. It's more a lack of execution and when the entire team isn't executing, there's one person to look at. 

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22 minutes ago, JonStark said:

I honestly don't think the talent is the problem. I think Oli promotes a hostile team environment dating back to Yadi's absence and doesn't know how to learn from his mistakes. That's a bad combo to lead a clubhouse. 

The players have definitely underperformed, but I don't see it as a lack of talent. It's more a lack of execution and when the entire team isn't executing, there's one person to look at. 

We weren’t that good under Schildt either, though.

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Oli isn’t getting fired, no way Mo admits that mistake this early. And that wouldn’t really change anything anyways, because they’d just promote another Yes man into that role.

If we want to see a change it starts from the top. Mo, Girsch and Oli all need to go. 

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8 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said:

Oli isn’t getting fired, no way Mo admits that mistake this early. And that wouldn’t really change anything anyways, because they’d just promote another Yes man into that role.

If we want to see a change it starts from the top. Mo, Girsch and Oli all need to go. 

This is it. He’s been needing to go for a while now.

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On 6/6/2023 at 11:47 AM, JonStark said:

I honestly don't think the talent is the problem. I think Oli promotes a hostile team environment dating back to Yadi's absence and doesn't know how to learn from his mistakes. That's a bad combo to lead a clubhouse. 

The players have definitely underperformed, but I don't see it as a lack of talent. It's more a lack of execution and when the entire team isn't executing, there's one person to look at. 

I’ve been saying it for awhile now, especially this entire year. The team isn’t having fun. They clearly don’t enjoy being there right now. It’s a bunch of individuals just going to their jobs. 

I have my assumptions that it goes back to Oli (which means it goes back to Mo) and it all bubbled over when Tough Guy Oli tried to call out TON. 

If it’s due to some other reason? Some other player? Group of player? Nearly no matter who it is, it’s time to carve out the cancer (for a lack of a better word, sorry). I’ll gladly swallow the crow if it’s someone else’s, but everything points to it being Oli and as an extension of him, Mo

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I honestly don't think it's just one factor here.

-The manager is inept

-The core players aren't performing consitently...again

-The roster construction and call-ups/send downs are questionable

-The FO is complacent and unwilling to change their approach 

The list goes on and on.

This organization needed a seaon like we're in, as it's going to demand signifcant changes at more than one area. Something we haven't seen in a LONG time here. 

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What are we doing next year at Catcher? Ivan Herrera is knocking at the door and I don’t see how they can leave him at Memphis for another season. Are we going to see Contreras as a full time DH for the remaining 4 years of his Contract? Are we going to trade Herrera? 

Herrera’s Triple-A stats this year…

41 games, .301 BA, .429 OBP, 6 HR, 32 RBI, 18 doubles, 1 triple, 17.3 walk-rate, 20.9 K-rate, 147 wRC+

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1 hour ago, holt_bruce81 said:

What are we doing next year at Catcher? Ivan Herrera is knocking at the door and I don’t see how they can leave him at Memphis for another season. Are we going to see Contreras as a full time DH for the remaining 4 years of his Contract? Are we going to trade Herrera? 

Herrera’s Triple-A stats this year…

41 games, .301 BA, .429 OBP, 6 HR, 32 RBI, 18 doubles, 1 triple, 17.3 walk-rate, 20.9 K-rate, 147 wRC+

You knew he wasnt going to be a Full Time Catcher for his entire contract, you just hoped it was alittle more than 35 games right? (Im only laughing because it hurts so much) 

You have to go with Herrera sooner or later, that was part of the plan (or atleast it should have been) All that it does is move the decision from how do we split up Catcher, to how do we split up the Middle Infield. And luckily, Gorman has shown to be a better 2B than most thought (much better than I thought) so you dont have to stash him at DH. Where the decision seems like its going to come down to, is Edman vs Donovan... (and hopefully for only another season or so, as Winn should be pushing for SS soon)

 

Edited by StLunatic88
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19 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

You knew he wasnt going to be a Full Time Catcher for his entire contract, you just hoped it was alittle more than 35 games right? (Im only laughing because it hurts so much) 

You have to go with Herrera sooner or later, that was part of the plan (or atleast it should have been) All that it does is move the decision from how do we split up Catcher, to how do we split up the Middle Infield. And luckily, Gorman has shown to be a better 2B than most thought (much better than I thought) so you dont have to stash him at DH. Where the decision seems like its going to come down to, is Edman vs Donovan... (and hopefully for only another season or so, as Winn should be pushing for SS soon)

 

I think Edman and Donovan are pretty decent pieces in a trade. I would guess Edman is the more valuable of the two because he plays SS. If he can look decent in CF, that’ll only help his value. I wonder if we see Winn with the big squad post trade deadline? 

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On 6/9/2023 at 3:42 PM, StLunatic88 said:

You knew he wasnt going to be a Full Time Catcher for his entire contract, you just hoped it was alittle more than 35 games right? (Im only laughing because it hurts so much) 

You have to go with Herrera sooner or later, that was part of the plan (or atleast it should have been) All that it does is move the decision from how do we split up Catcher, to how do we split up the Middle Infield. And luckily, Gorman has shown to be a better 2B than most thought (much better than I thought) so you dont have to stash him at DH. Where the decision seems like its going to come down to, is Edman vs Donovan... (and hopefully for only another season or so, as Winn should be pushing for SS soon)

 

Agreed, they at least need to have Herrera as the primary C next season, with Contreras mixing in for a spot start 1-2 times a week. That is the best case scenario for Contreras at this point. Coming into this season, I thought Herrera would be an obvious trade chip, but with the sooner than expected decline from Contreras, that is no longer the case. Contreras isn't even hitting at a comparable clip to any regular DH right now, but still faith the bat will turn around eventually. Herrera is now a must keep.

Agreed on Gorman having shown enough to be a consistent 2B option defensively. 

 

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