The STL Cardinals Thread - New Season, Same Old Cardinals?

[kgarrett12486]

I think it's the most asanine thing in all of the 4 major sports that we have 2 leagues with separate rules. Makes no sense at all...

So to answer your question, no the DH doesn't bother me at all. I want a level playing field across the board one way or the other...

[kgarrett12486]

We selected high school 3B Jordan Walker with our 1st round pick. Scouting reports say he had the most projectable power in the draft, and very advanced bat for his age. He does possess a longer swing though. He's 6'5 already, so questions of whether he'll stay at 3B. He has the skills too, but may be better fit in RF or 1B long term. Heard a lot of analysts say that if season wasn't shortened this year, he may have ended up a top 15 pick...

6 more picks inside the top 100. This is our year to reload the system...

Edited June 11, 2020 by kgarrett12486

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said:

We selected high school 3B Jordan Walker with our 1st round pick. Scouting reports say he had the most projectable power in the draft, and very advanced bat for his age. He does possess a longer swing though. He's 6'5 already, so questions of whether he'll stay at 3B. He has the skills too, but may be better fit in RF or 1B long term. Heard a lot of analysts say that if season wasn't shortened this year, he may have ended up a top 15 pick...

6 more picks inside the top 100. This is our year to reload the system...

Really intriguing pick.  Tools galore, but is going to need some time.  Really interested to see how the Cardinals go.  Seems likely they grab a college player with their next pick.  Imagine they'll save money on their comp pick they got from the Rays for one more big signing later.

[StLunatic88]

8 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Really intriguing pick.  Tools galore, but is going to need some time.  Really interested to see how the Cardinals go.  Seems likely they grab a college player with their next pick.  Imagine they'll save money on their comp pick they got from the Rays for one more big signing later.

Big fan of how smart walker is. Not just a toolsy guy that we re hoping it clicks for some day. Seems like a worker who could really pay off in the long run

[holt_bruce81]

Man as the draft went on I thought for certain Pete Crow-Armstrong was going to be the pick, which I actually would of hated. I know there are guys who love the tool-set, but to me, the lack of power is a major concern. And apparently he's asking for a boat-load of money to break on his commitment to Vandy, which means we would of probably had to nearly punted the rest of the draft. Glad the Mets ended up taking him a few slots a head of us. Then I thought for sure it was going to be Cole Wilcox lol

I'm a fan of the Walker pick. Love that Flores was willing to take that big of a risk. He has some exciting tools, now hopefully the Cardinals organization can do there thing and develop him into the best player he can be. 

[MOSteelers56]

I'm liking the Flores style of draft. Big, athletic, projectable tools type of players. I think it's smart that we are emphasizing offense too, especially since the DH will surely be here before we know it. I hope Walker can stick at 3B and can continue to grow as a hitter. Obviously, there's always 1B and COF too. This gives us some insurance for our 3B of the future. One of these young guys will surely stick. Hopefully some of the others can at least hit. I'm hopeful.

[kgarrett12486]

17 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I'm liking the Flores style of draft. Big, athletic, projectable tools type of players. I think it's smart that we are emphasizing offense too, especially since the DH will surely be here before we know it. I hope Walker can stick at 3B and can continue to grow as a hitter. Obviously, there's always 1B and COF too. This gives us some insurance for our 3B of the future. One of these young guys will surely stick. Hopefully some of the others can at least hit. I'm hopeful.

Same here. I love what we were able to potentially get in this draft. A lot of upside with these picks, I'm really intrigued by Winn. Fastball that has touched 99 mph and considered one of the best defensive shortstops in the draft at 18. I really hope he gets a shot to be a two-way guy. Also, love the late round pick of Bedell. Love bringing in the local product, but I've also seen some reports that said he could've snuck into the 1st round this year if college season would've happened. Seems like we got good value from top to bottom.

 

[holt_bruce81]

2 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Same here. I love what we were able to potentially get in this draft. A lot of upside with these picks, I'm really intrigued by Winn. Fastball that has touched 99 mph and considered one of the best defensive shortstops in the draft at 18. I really hope he gets a shot to be a two-way guy. Also, love the late round pick of Bedell. Love bringing in the local product, but I've also seen some reports that said he could've snuck into the 1st round this year if college season would've happened. Seems like we got good value from top to bottom.

 

Yeah, I'm super pumped about what the Cardinals were able to do in this draft. Like you said, a ton of upside with these picks, some very athletic kids going to be entering our organization now. I'm going to be interested to see where they start Masyn Winn at, if I had to guess I would say SS but man the kid looks electric on the mound. 

And I'm also a big fan of the Markevian "Tink" Hence pick. Love his delivery out of the wide up, but looks kind of slow to the plate out of the stretch. Wonder if they work on a slide step for him. Only watched like 2-3 videos on him after we drafted him but it was one of the first things I noticed. 

[CWood21]

20 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I'm liking the Flores style of draft. Big, athletic, projectable tools type of players. I think it's smart that we are emphasizing offense too, especially since the DH will surely be here before we know it. I hope Walker can stick at 3B and can continue to grow as a hitter. Obviously, there's always 1B and COF too. This gives us some insurance for our 3B of the future. One of these young guys will surely stick. Hopefully some of the others can at least hit. I'm hopeful.

He's becoming mildly predictable, but that's usually the case when you get a larger sample size.  And that's not necessarily a bad thing.  He's gone with an athletic, toolsy HS with 3 of his first four picks (excluding 2017).  The only year that he didn't grab a HS player with his first pick was when he took Zack Thompson last year.  The Cardinals have never gone over the slot for their first pick, and Thompson was the only time they've ever gone underslot with their first pick.  I'd anticipate Jordan Walker getting right at that $3.1M bonus that the pick carries.  And I'd be surprised if the Cardinals took him if they didn't get confirmation that would get it done.  Masyn Wynn falls into the Trejyn Fletcher category for me as someone who is insanely athletic, but needs quite a bit of time to develop.  I think they're going to truly let him be a two-player for the time being, but I think his future lies on the mound.  Not sure he's going to hit enough.  Like the Tink Hence name, but flashbacks of Ronnie Williams are coming back.  Hopefully he's got a brighter future.

Oh, and he likes players who are young for their year.

[CWood21]

Realistically speaking, outside of Jordan Walker do any of our prospects even crack our top 10?

1.) OF Dylan Carlson
2.) 3B Nolan Gorman
3.) LHP Matt Liberatore
4.) LHP Zack Thompson
5.) C Andrew Knizner
6.) C Ivan Herrera
7.) 3B Jordan Walker
8.) OF Jhon Torres
9.) LHP Genesis Cabrera
10.) RHP Johan Oviedo

That top 3 of Carlson, Gorman, and Liberatore is really drool worthy.

[hrubes20]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

Realistically speaking, outside of Jordan Walker do any of our prospects even crack our top 10?

1.) OF Dylan Carlson
2.) 3B Nolan Gorman
3.) LHP Matt Liberatore
4.) LHP Zack Thompson
5.) C Andrew Knizner
6.) C Ivan Herrera
7.) 3B Jordan Walker
8.) OF Jhon Torres
9.) LHP Genesis Cabrera
10.) RHP Johan Oviedo

That top 3 of Carlson, Gorman, and Liberatore is really drool worthy.

I would replace Cabrera and Oviedo with Winn and Hence without a second thought.  That's not even shiny new toy syndrome talking.  I really liked both those picks for you guys.  

[CWood21]

On 6/12/2020 at 12:59 PM, hrubes20 said:

I would replace Cabrera and Oviedo with Winn and Hence without a second thought.  That's not even shiny new toy syndrome talking.  I really liked both those picks for you guys.  

That's fair.  Winn is probably a bit too raw for me to like that much.  I LOVE the tools, but he's 4-5 years away from being ready IMO.  He hasn't shown the ability to hit consistently, and as a pitcher there are the natural concerns regarding his size and his lack of developed secondary pitches.  Don't get me wrong, that's the type of gamble to make but he's really raw.  I'd probably put him in that 10-12 range tbh.  As I mentioned with Tink, I get Ronnie Williams vibes from him.

[kgarrett12486]

On 6/12/2020 at 11:46 AM, CWood21 said:

Realistically speaking, outside of Jordan Walker do any of our prospects even crack our top 10?

1.) OF Dylan Carlson
2.) 3B Nolan Gorman
3.) LHP Matt Liberatore
4.) LHP Zack Thompson
5.) C Andrew Knizner
6.) C Ivan Herrera

7.) 3B Jordan Walker

8.) OF Jhon Torres
9.) LHP Genesis Cabrera
10.) RHP Johan Oviedo

That top 3 of Carlson, Gorman, and Liberatore is really drool worthy.

I think our top 5 prospects are going to be impact MLB players. I don't think the other guys would crack my top ten at this point, but fully expect a few would after a solid 1st eyar showing (who knows when that'll happen though with MILB being in jeopardy). Currently my board would sit:

• 1. Carlson
• 2. Gorman
• 3. Liberatore
• 4. Thompson
• 5. Herrera
• 6. Knizer
• 7. Walker
• 8. Torres
• 9. Oviedo
• 10. Montero
• 11. Fletcher
• 12. Winn
• 13. Fernandez
• 14. Hence
• 15. Bedell

Cabrera is not on my list, as I don't consider him a prospect anymore. He had a substantial sample size now at MLB level and I think he was going to be on this team coming out of ST in the bull-pen, so I took him out...

Edited June 15, 2020 by kgarrett12486

[holt_bruce81]

47 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said:

I think our top 5 prospects are going to be impact MLB players. I don't think the other guys would crack my top ten at this point, but fully expect a few would after a solid 1st eyar showing (who knows when that'll happen though with MILB being in jeopardy). Currently my board would sit:

• 1. Carlson
• 2. Gorman
• 3. Liberatore
• 4. Thompson
• 5. Herrera
• 6. Knizer
• 7. Walker
• 8. Torres
• 9. Oviedo
• 10. Montero
• 11. Fletcher
• 12. Winn
• 13. Fernandez
• 14. Hence
• 15. Bedell

Cabrera is not on my list, as I don't consider him a prospect anymore. He had a substantial sample size now at MLB level and I think he was going to be on this team coming out of ST in the bull-pen, so I took him out...

I'd probably put Montero, Fletcher and Winn above Oviedo. I think Oviedo is being a bit overrated in our system. I mean he has an above average fastball and he's definitely got a big frame. But other than that, what is there really to like? He can't throw his secondary pitchers for strikes so his walk-rate will always be high. I don't know, I just need to see it from him more consistently, not just for a few months in the pitcher friendly Florida State League. 

Also, if he can stay healthy, I'm expecting a huge bounce back whenever they do play from Elehuris Montero. 

[kgarrett12486]

1 hour ago, holt_bruce81 said:

I'd probably put Montero, Fletcher and Winn above Oviedo. I think Oviedo is being a bit overrated in our system. I mean he has an above average fastball and he's definitely got a big frame. But other than that, what is there really to like? He can't throw his secondary pitchers for strikes so his walk-rate will always be high. I don't know, I just need to see it from him more consistently, not just for a few months in the pitcher friendly Florida State League. 

Also, if he can stay healthy, I'm expecting a huge bounce back whenever they do play from Elehuris Montero. 

Oviedo needs to take another step forward this year, as I'm on the fence with him and what he projects to be. He's one of those guys that could go either way, a low floor, but high ceiling guy IMO. He's got an impressive strikeout rate at every level. His frame is there to support being a workhorse and he's eaten innings at every level. His curve and change-up show flashes of being plus, but as you said he's still learning their feel and are inconsistent. 

If you look at his track records, he's struggled with walks after a promotion (posting +5/per 9 walk rates), but then has corrected after getting his feet under him at that level (down to 3+ walks/per 9 walk rates). He struggled in Springfield last year, but a lot of pitchers do upon immediate promotion. 

If he takes that next step, he could be a #3 type workhorse rotation guy. if not, he's probably nothing more than your run of the mill middle reliever. Be interesting to watch...

I'm in the same boat with Montero. I think he has a high ceiling, low floor. He needs to stay healthy and show he can figure out his swing (he was all out of sorts in 2019 and the AFL). I'm somewhat down on him, as wrist injuries tend to be lingering ones that can really impact a players development/swing mechanics and cause bad habits to stick. He's got the potential to be an impact bat though if he can can stay healthy and improve slightly on that long swing...