Broncofan Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Honestly, the onsides kick seemed more something between Gase & Elway and nothing more. I really don't have a problem with it. Play better, won't be an issue. I do think firing anyone is pointless until you get rid of Matt Russell. The lack of talent across the board (QB is just the most obvious) doesn't get addressed if we don't get a fresh new look at college scouting and talent evaluation. I have no problem with letting VJ go at end of season if we need an O overhaul (that's the reason you can use to justify such a quick axe PR wise), but the reality is the problem we have starts at our inability to draft properly in Day 1-2 in Day 1-2...and that's on Elway/Russell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 21 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Honestly, the onsides kick seemed more something between Gase & Elway and nothing more. I really don't have a problem with it. Play better, won't be an issue. I do think firing anyone is pointless until you get rid of Matt Russell. The lack of talent across the board (QB is just the most obvious) doesn't get addressed if we don't get a fresh new look at college scouting and talent evaluation. I have no problem with letting VJ go at end of season if we need an O overhaul (that's the reason you can use to justify such a quick axe PR wise), but the reality is the problem we have starts at our inability to draft properly in Day 1-2 in Day 1-2...and that's on Elway/Russell. Russel was a hold over from the Mac regime. He should have never been retained but we know cheapskate Joe Ellis doesn’t like paying out contracts. Give Russel his waking papers, a bottle of Jack, a pat on the back and a letter of recommendation from yes-man Brian Xanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Just on a few postitive notes. -Connor McGovern had a solid game for his 1st ever start. Had a couple key blocks on good gains in the running game. While not perfect, he didn’t get abused by Suh/Phillips. Definitely outplayed Garcia today. - Austin Traylor. Another guy who had some key blocks in the running game. Also made some safety blanket catches (though Miami was giving up those throws). Denver also moved him around the formation, used him out of the backfield to block (where he was solid), motioned him, and lined him up as a traditional TE. He won’t ever be a star, but that’s a couple weeks now he’s flashed and a solid blocker who can catch/make a little bit of a play with the ball, and is versatile is always needed on a football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 I mean take a look at the Seahawks. That team isn’t any different than Denver’s. Which isn’t surprising because Elway built this team to mimic Seattle’s after the SB blowout. They may be 8-4 after tonight and beat the 2nd best team in the league because of QB play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 30 minutes ago, germ-x said: I mean take a look at the Seahawks. That team isn’t any different than Denver’s. Which isn’t surprising because Elway built this team to mimic Seattle’s after the SB blowout. They may be 8-4 after tonight and beat the 2nd best team in the league because of QB play. Except we're not like SEA on D - our D is now 19th in DVOA vs. the pass, and 12th in the run entering Week 13 - and we used to be top 5 in both. I imagine we'll be even lower after this week is done. As our DL has become decimated and our ILB play has been exposed, teams are killing us. SEA D? 7th & 9th in both run and pass D. Front 4 with pressure, LB's who play well, and usually fierce secondary (they were on a bigger roll when they had their CB's - losing to WAS at home doesn't happen with the Legion of Boom). They are holding PHI to 3 points on D after 3Q. QB isn't doing anything on that end. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef They are a playoff contender because they still have more balance than we do AND a QB. If we had Wilson we'd be better than 3-9 - but SEA is barely a NFC playoff contender, and barely is solely because their OL is awful. That's why they are just on the edge of playoffs. No one argues a QB makes a huge diff or can be the biggest difference-maker - but you still need balance, QB only does so much. SEA actually demonstrates that - PHI, NO, CAR, LAR & MIN are the other NFC teams with top 10 DVOA D's. We have great pieces for an elite D - but we're aren't even close anymore - NT/DE/ILB upgrades are needed (S is coming). No surprise who the top 6 teams in the NFC are when you look at the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 BTW to hopefully close the book on the onside kick.... Probably a non-issue given the above...until we play them again lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Except we're not like SEA on D - our D is now 19th in DVOA vs. the pass, and 12th in the run entering Week 13 - and we used to be top 5 in both. I imagine we'll be even lower after this week is done. As our DL has become decimated and our ILB play has been exposed, teams are killing us. SEA D? 7th & 9th in both run and pass D. Front 4 with pressure, LB's who play well, and usually fierce secondary. They are holding PHI to 3 points on D. QB isn't doing anything on that end. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef They are a playoff contender because they still have more balance than we do AND a QB. If we had Wilson we'd be better than 3-9 - but SEA is barely a NFC playoff contender, and barely is solely because their OL is awful. That's why they are just on the edge of playoffs. No one argues a QB makes a huge diff or can be the biggest difference-maker - but you still need balance, QB only does so much. SEA actually demonstrates that - PHI, NO, CAR, LAR & MIN are the other NFC teams with top 10 DVOA D's. We have great pieces for an elite D - but we're aren't even close anymore - NT/DE/ILB upgrades are needed (S is coming). No surprise who the top 6 teams in the NFC are when you look at the above. And last year we saw what happens with a bad QB even with a good defense. The super bowl was the outlier not the norm. Good qb play elevates everything. We could hit on all the draft picks and FA this spring but it’ll be for naught if we’re trotting our trash at QB. Do whatever it takes to get an elite QB and worry about the rest later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, broncofan48 said: And last year we saw what happens with a bad QB even with a good defense. The super bowl was the outlier not the norm. Good qb play elevates everything. We could hit on all the draft picks and FA this spring but it’ll be for naught if we’re trotting our trash at QB. Do whatever it takes to get an elite QB and fix the rest of the team as well FIFY. People keep talking like it's a binary choice. It's not. We don't only have 1 choice - fix the QB or fix the rest of the team. We're in this mess because we can't hit on QB and we've lost our overall team depth. People are kidding themselves if they think we're only a QB away - but here's the kicker - we don't need to choose between the 2. If we are lucky, we get the franchise QB in Rd1. But we need to hit on a whole lot of other areas before we're back to the team we had in 2013-2015. There is zero argument we need a QB. And if they are there Rd1, great. But we need to fix so many other areas - OL, interior DL for pass rush, ILB. We can't be serious contenders without it. You look at every serious contender - and they have both a much better QB and a much, much, more complete team than we do right now. Improving QB and the rest of the team doesn't have to be a choice. It's curious people keep posting like it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Just now, Broncofan said: FIFY. People keep talking like it's a binary choice. It's not. We don't only have 1 choice - fix the QB or fix the rest of the team. We're in this mess because we can't hit on QB and we've lost our overall team depth. People are kidding themselves if they think we're only a QB away - but here's the kicker - we don't need to choose between the 2. There is zero argument we need a QB. And if they are there Rd1, great. But we need to fix so many other areas - OL, interior DL for pass rush, ILB. We can't be serious contenders without it. You look at every serious contender - and they have both a much better QB and a much, much, more complete team than we do right now. Improving QB and the rest of the team doesn't have to be a choice. It's curious people keep posting like it is. I think we’re a ways away. My point being if darnold or Rosen is the guy and we’re picking 4th I would prefer spending what it takes to trade up and get one. I know you’ll say we’re outgunned and all you’ve hammered that home but picks multiple firsts whatever it takes would be fine in my eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, broncofan48 said: I think we’re a ways away. My point being if darnold or Rosen is the guy and we’re picking 4th I would prefer spending what it takes to trade up and get one. I know you’ll say we’re outgunned and all you’ve hammered that home but picks multiple firsts whatever it takes would be fine in my eyes I said we were outgunned when we were projected to be at worst a 7-9 or 6-10 team (and yes hammered that home lol...but that point held for any 6-10/7-9 team, they're not getting either guy). But now that 3-13 is there, we're still outgunned, but at least we have hope (I"ve said that too the last 2 weeks too lol). But we still can't bank on getting Darnold/Rosen unless we have 1.2 in our hands (or 1.3 and we do a great job of selling that we'd take Barkley if teams try to jump us). We could offer the world and someone could still refuse / someone else could just top us. If we have 1.4 or 1.5 I agree we should try to move up - try to move up and getting it done are just 2 different animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Just now, Broncofan said: I said we were outgunned when we were a 7-9 team (and yes hammered that home lol). Now that 3-13 is there, we're still outgunned, but at least we have hope (I"ve said that too the last 2 weeks too lol). But we still can't bank on getting Darnold/Rosen unless we have 1.2 in our hands (or 1.3 and we do a great job of selling that we'd take Barkley if teams try to jump us). If we draft 3rd it better not be a sell job that we’d take Barkley haha. If a QB isn’t there he’s so good would love to have an exciting player on the squad again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, broncofan48 said: If we draft 3rd it better not be a sell job that we’d take Barkley haha. If a QB isn’t there he’s so good would love to have an exciting player on the squad again Yes, but here's the thing - it's pretty obvious someone like Shanahan absolutely loves the elite RB. He won't consider moving down from 1.2 if we say we're getting Barkley at 1.3 if QB goes 1-2. Then we get QB at 1.3. We just have to do a great job selling Barkley is who we lock into at 1.3. That likely keeps SF at 1.2 standing pat. I have no problem with us getting Barkley but as we all agree QB makes a bigger impact. And so we're betting off pidgeonholing SF into taking Barkley at 1.2 if we are at 1.3 to get Darnold/Rosen. Of course we need to be at 1.3 to make that happen lol. If we can find a way to lose out and SF/NYG can win 1 game then we actually can pick 1.2. And I would be shocked if Darnold didn't declare then. Really...the one thing we can control...keep losing baby. If we have 1.2 or 1.3 I feel comfortable saying we'll get one of Rosen/Darnold (duh if it's 1.2). If we pick at 1.4 or later, we're at the mercy of the market, and someone still beating us. Really....just lose baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 58 minutes ago, Broncofan said: BTW to hopefully close the book on the onside kick.... Probably a non-issue given the above...until we play them again lol. Mac-like behavior from a Mac protege. You could knock me over with a feather. What a POS. Hope he can find another HOF QB to latch on with to save his career because he’s been an abject failure in Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 A fitting post-script to today's game... The reason why this is relevant - if people recall, SEA almost got draft pick penalties for not disclosing injuries (Richard Sherman was the last example for SEA). We don't have a history of this, but no doubt the NFL office will send the FO a memo reminding them that they have to report all injuries - not disclosing Booker (and others) isn't allowed. Likely nothing but a warning given we have no prior recent record - but it's fitting that our FO couldn't even get injury reporting, a league requirement, down this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Well this was inevitable. 6 fumbles in 32 punts. SMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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