2023 Commanders OTAs, Minicamp & Training Camp

[ripsean21]

45 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I don’t think it’s that easy to give Curl top safety $. He’s a good player but, his best season was his rookie year. I can not have faith that he’s just going to “pop off and have an All-Pro year” bc while he was good/at times great as a rookie, he’s basically been above average/arguably good the last two years.

I know people don’t want to hear this but the fact that in the last two drafts they drafted Butler & Martin is not a good sign for the team giving Curl as long term deal that pays him the $80 mil or more his dad says he’s worth.

Kam has shown he’s worth getting a 2nd contract, he hasn’t shown he’s worth getting paid as one of the top safeties in the NFL.

I feel that unless they can get Curl to agree to a contract that pays him on avg $10 m per year or just above or below that they won’t re-sign him now & may lose him next off-season w/ Butler or Martin becoming the starting SS.

At this point - based off last year - DeFo is the safety that this needs to give the $15-20 mil per year contract to in a few years, not Curl.

See this is where I feel people are misplacing Curls impact for the team over what his actual numbers are. Yes as a rookie he killed it. But since then it’s about the eye test. Curl is an eraser for other teams players. So while he hasn’t been getting INT’s I’d Curl plays the teams TE that guys not getting catches or yards. When teams have a dynamic RB he removes them from the passing and keeps them short in yards when that’s his responsibility. We have given up big plays which last year Forrest started erasing so when he and Curl were out there together our defense was so much better. All of this without an elite pass rush which this team should and IMO will have this year. Curl is about to click it’s there on tape teams just stay away. With better CB play and pass rush trust me Curl will be the benefactor because he’s going to be on the other teams saftey valve. I see what others say about Curl but the truth is in the numbers points scored against and total defense. He erases teams Swiss Army knives. I’m just saying if we let him play it out people are going to be oh I wish we got ahead and he’s going to have that year with sweat and Chase playing for money it’s a mistake trying to let all 3 have career years to figure out contracts off of

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, ripsean21 said:

See this is where I feel people are misplacing Curls impact for the team over what his actual numbers are. Yes as a rookie he killed it. But since then it’s about the eye test. Curl is an eraser for other teams players.
 

So, while he hasn’t been getting INT’s if Curl plays the opposing teams TE that guys not getting catches or yards. When teams have a dynamic RB he removes them from the passing and keeps them short in yards when that’s his responsibility.
 

We have given up big plays which last year Forrest started erasing so when he and Curl were out there together our defense was so much better. All of this without an elite pass rush which this team should and IMO will have this year.

Curl is about to click it’s there on tape teams just stay away. With better CB play and pass rush trust me Curl will be the benefactor because he’s going to be on the other teams safety valve.

I see what others say about Curl but the truth is in the numbers points scored against and total defense. He erases teams Swiss Army knives. I’m just saying if we let him play it out people are going to be oh I wish we got ahead and he’s going to have that year with Sweat and Chase playing for money it’s a mistake trying to let all 3 have career years to figure out who deserves the contract extension of the 3.

I hear you, but he’s not worth near $20 mil a year. There has to be a range that both can agree to which is under $15 mil per year. Something like Kendall Fuller’s contract (4 years, $40 mil, signing bonus $15 mil, $25 mil guaranteed.)

And, if he & the team won’t agree to a deal that pays him on avg $10-12 mil per year then he can walk for a 2025 comp pick while Martin & Butler can be our Buffalo nickel/SS next year.

Edited May 28, 2023 by turtle28

[turtle28]

 

[ripsean21]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

I hear you, but he’s not worth near $20 mil a year. There has to be a range that both can agree to which is under $15 mil per year. Something like Kendall Fuller’s contract (4 years, $40 mil, signing bonus $15 mil, $25 mil guaranteed.)

And, if he & the team won’t agree to a deal that pays him on avg $10-12 mil per year then he can walk for a 2025 comp pick while Martin & Butler can be our Buffalo nickel/SS next year.

I don’t think you’re paying him north of 15 if you sign him now. I think it is the 10-13 range now that’s where you get the value is doing it before he makes a season that gets you the deal north of 15. Good teams do this with foresight. The season with this defense and the edges he could be the guy to benefit the most on the back end for the addition of Forbes and the DT’s with the edges playing for contracts Curl could make this FO look like geniuses for locking him up then he having a fringe all pro year

picking those players only add too the overall defense with Curl. Having awesome depth and packages this is what building the roster is for we always create holes not keeping our own. You pay the top while developing them cheap then the third deal you make the hard choices for the player you paid through their second deal while developing the depth on the guys on their first deal.

Edited May 28, 2023 by ripsean21

[Slappy Mc]

I wouldn't pay Curl as the top Safety in the NFL, but top 10-15 sure. Somewhere in the 10-14M/year range. Hopefully lock him up for the next 4-5 years and then maybe give him top dollar if he plays out his contract at a high level. 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, ripsean21 said:

I don’t think you’re paying him north of 15 if you sign him now. I think it is the 10-13 range now that’s where you get the value is doing it before he makes a season that gets you the deal north of 15. Good teams do this with foresight. The season with this defense and the edges he could be the guy to benefit the most on the back end for the addition of Forbes and the DT’s with the edges playing for contracts Curl could make this FO look like geniuses for locking him up then he having a fringe all pro year

picking those players only add too the overall defense with Curl. Having awesome depth and packages this is what building the roster is for we always create holes not keeping our own. You pay the top while developing them cheap then the third deal you make the hard choices for the player you paid through their second deal while developing the depth on the guys on their first deal.

Curl’s dad said they wanted $80 million 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Slappy Mc]

2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Curl’s dad said they wanted $80 million 🤷🏼‍♂️

If its over 5 years, thats not too bad. That puts him at 16M/Yr. Which is top 5 for the position, with everyone up for a new contract by 2027. Also as long as its not a fully GTD contract we are protected for injury and if he doesn't play up to the pay rate. I would prefer a contract along the lines of 4 years 60M with 30M GTD at signing as my top dollar offer. Not saying he would take that contract, but that is a pretty solid offer IMO.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Slappy Mc

[lavar703]

1 minute ago, Slappy Mc said:

If its over 5 years, thats not too bad. That puts him at 16M/Yr. Which is top 5 for the position, with everyone up for a new contract by 2027. Also as long as its not a fully GTD contract we are protected for injury and if he doesn't play up to the pay rate. I would prefer a contract along the lines of 4 years 60M with 30M GTD at signing. Not saying he would take that contract, but that is a pretty solid offer IMO.

He’s not going to get that on the open market. I love Curl but he doesn’t make any real game-changing plays. He doesn’t force turnovers. He’s a QB of the defense and he’s very valuable to us but I think they’ll be some shock if he hits the open market. My guess is he gets offers in the $8-10M per year range. 

[turtle28]

2 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

If its over 5 years, thats not too bad. That puts him at 16M/Yr. Which is top 5 for the position, with everyone up for a new contract by 2027. Also as long as its not a fully GTD contract we are protected for injury and if he doesn't play up to the pay rate. I would prefer a contract along the lines of 4 years 60M with 30M GTD at signing. Not saying he would take that contract, but that is a pretty solid offer IMO.

Seems like too much for a good but not great player. He’s not a top 5 safety in the league, he’s a top 20 safety.

[Slappy Mc]

1 minute ago, lavar703 said:

He’s not going to get that on the open market. I love Curl but he doesn’t make any real game-changing plays. He doesn’t force turnovers. He’s a QB of the defense and he’s very valuable to us but I think they’ll be some shock if he hits the open market. My guess is he gets offers in the $8-10M per year range. 

 

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

Seems like too much for a good but not great player. He’s not a top 5 safety in the league, he’s a top 20 safety.

Any contract right now that is signed, will be looked at in the futures as chump change. We are seeing that with lots of deals that were looked at as overpays. I think 10-14M is the range he gets paid at, but my top dollar offer would be the 4 year 60M (30M gtd). Take it or leave it. With him getting a minimum of 7.5M/Yr, that's a significant pay raise for a consistent player and an earned pay raise.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, Slappy Mc said:

 

Any contract right now that is signed, will be looked at in the futures as chump change. We are seeing that with lots of deals that were looked at as overpays. I think 10-14M is the range he gets paid at, but my top dollar offer would be the 4 year 60M (30M gtd). Take it or leave it. With him getting a minimum of 7.5M/Yr, that's a significant pay raise for a consistent player and an earned pay raise.

I get it, I think it’s more on the $10 million a year range and not close to $15 mil a year. I think it’s more like Kendall Fuller’s contract. 
 

I definitely think if he turns it down for near $20 mil a year he can walk & we’ll take the comp pick.

[Slappy Mc]

6 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I get it, I think it’s more on the $10 million a year range and not close to $15 mil a year. I think it’s more like Kendall Fuller’s contract. 
 

I definitely think if he turns it down for near $20 mil a year he can walk & we’ll take the comp pick.

I'd rather trade any players that don't want to resign. I'm not a big fan of the comp pick strategy. If they are under contract, trade them. Undoubtedly it will be better than waiting for a potential comp pick the following year.

[turtle28]

47 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

I'd rather trade any players that don't want to resign. I'm not a big fan of the comp pick strategy. If they are under contract, trade them. Undoubtedly it will be better than waiting for a potential comp pick the following year.

Curl isn’t a player who’s going to get us back a 3rd round pick or better in a trade, so we might as well keep him for another year & take the comp pick.

Here’s a list of the top paid 2022 safeties & Curl isn’t in their class:

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfls-highest-paid-safeties-ranking-144331695.html?guccounter=1#:~:text=The highest paid safety in,average annual salary%2C is second.&text=The Minnesota Vikings' Harrison Smith,million per season%2C is third.
 

“NFL's highest paid safeties (average salary per year):

• 1. Steelers safety Minkah Fitzpatrick: $18.2 million

• 2. Seahawks safety Jamal Adams: $17.5 million

• 3. Vikings safety Harrison Smith: $16 million

• 4. Broncos safety Justin Simmons: $15.25 million

• 5. Cardinals safety Budda Baker: $14.75 million

• 6. Bears safety Eddie Jackson: $14.6 million

• 7. Titans safety Kevin Byard: $14.1 million

• 8. Ravens safety Marcus Williams: $14 million

• 9. Seahawks safety Quandre Diggs: $13 million

• 10. Bengals safety Jesse Bates III: $12.9 million”

Edited May 29, 2023 by turtle28

[Slappy Mc]

30 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Curl isn’t a player who’s going to get us back a 3rd round pick or better in a trade, so we might as well keep him for another year & take the comp pick.

Here’s a list of the top paid 2022 safeties & Curl isn’t in their class:

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfls-highest-paid-safeties-ranking-144331695.html?guccounter=1#:~:text=The highest paid safety in,average annual salary%2C is second.&text=The Minnesota Vikings' Harrison Smith,million per season%2C is third.
 

“NFL's highest paid safeties (average salary per year):

• 1. Steelers safety Minkah Fitzpatrick: $18.2 million

• 2. Seahawks safety Jamal Adams: $17.5 million

• 3. Vikings safety Harrison Smith: $16 million

• 4. Broncos safety Justin Simmons: $15.25 million

• 5. Cardinals safety Budda Baker: $14.75 million

• 6. Bears safety Eddie Jackson: $14.6 million

• 7. Titans safety Kevin Byard: $14.1 million

• 8. Ravens safety Marcus Williams: $14 million

• 9. Seahawks safety Quandre Diggs: $13 million

• 10. Bengals safety Jesse Bates III: $12.9 million”

I saw the list. I would like to point out that quite a few of those play Free Safety rather than Strong Safety like Curl. Also, I would take Curl over Jamal Adams all day. Eddie Jackson is the other that could be considered as a SS, and I don't know if I would swap the two.

With that said, the fascination with the "comp pick" strategy is completely erroneous. You keep him and let him walk, the earliest you see any gains is the following year. I'd trade anyone for a draft pick for the current draft rather than a "potential" comp pick -hoping that A) the player gets signed to a decent contract and B) that you don't sign anyone in FA that nullifies the loss on the comp chart. Its really not good business.

[lavar703]

10 hours ago, Slappy Mc said:

I saw the list. I would like to point out that quite a few of those play Free Safety rather than Strong Safety like Curl. Also, I would take Curl over Jamal Adams all day. Eddie Jackson is the other that could be considered as a SS, and I don't know if I would swap the two.

With that said, the fascination with the "comp pick" strategy is completely erroneous. You keep him and let him walk, the earliest you see any gains is the following year. I'd trade anyone for a draft pick for the current draft rather than a "potential" comp pick -hoping that A) the player gets signed to a decent contract and B) that you don't sign anyone in FA that nullifies the loss on the comp chart. Its really not good business.

I hate compensation picks. Its a silly game fans like to play that makes them believe letting their best players walk is okay because you get a pick that most likely won't work out for you. You also have to completely sit out free agency to see any sort of gain. The Patriots were lauded for this approach for years but people always failed to acknowledge teams like the Pats (at the time) and Chiefs could let just about anyone walk because of their QB situation.

I would pay Curl but I'm not paying him some absurd amount of money when we just spent a high pick on a guy who can replace him. I do think a deal gets done once Josh Harris takes over but I would've prioritized him over the moves they made in free agency while Snyder still owned the team if I were Rivera.