Rich7sena Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 10 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: Overall when you look at these you can see that really the entire thing is fluid and no one really knows how high or low someone's going to go. When you need a quarterback you don't play around with the position and see who falls where you go and take one that you think has the ability to be your franchise quarterback. You don't look at someone and say this person can be the franchise person but then try to see if they'll fall to you. It's the most important position in football we're talking about. At the same time you don't take someone that's not that good higher than they should go. In panic case he would be considered a top 10 draft pick if there weren't a whole questions about his health(which remember he's been playing for two years straight and hasn't missed a game) I don't think teams are dogmatic about who definitively is or isn't a franchise QB. It's not about whether QB X can be a franchise QB--that's a "yes" for almost every prospect that gets drafted. It's about the probability QB X is going to be a franchise QB. Even strong QB drafts return only 2 or 3 franchise QBs. Chances are, neither McCarthy, Nix, or Penix end up being franchise QBs for the team that drafts them. I think 4 QBs go in round 1. 3 in the first 3 picks and 1 after the top 15. I'm basing this on how the NFL has moved in the past and my evaluation of these QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 13 minutes ago, NYRaider said: If you put McCarthy in a wide open spread offense, surrounded by NFL pass catchers, 3 years from now what do you think would be the result? No idea. But that could go either way. My take on it is if you trade up you better be sure. Can't look at it from an age standpoint and say because he's young he will obviously develop. Sam Darnold was young. Justin Fields was young. Trey Lance was Young Zach Wilson was young. But the problem is when you bet on players young age and disregard what we've actually seen your betting on hope not necessarily what someone is capable of. The intrigue of JJ McCarthy is supposed to be that he's young and he was of the quarterback of a team that went undefeated and won the championship and he has supposed traits. But the reality is he did not throw the ball enough for us to know enough for us to trade up and miss out on draft picks that could help build the football team and still get a quarterback. It's based on hype & likability more than it is reality and the product that he(individually) actually put on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 31 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: No idea. But that could go either way. My take on it is if you trade up you better be sure. Can't look at it from an age standpoint and say because he's young he will obviously develop. Sam Darnold was young. Justin Fields was young. Trey Lance was Young Zach Wilson was young. But the problem is when you bet on players young age and disregard what we've actually seen your betting on hope not necessarily what someone is capable of. The intrigue of JJ McCarthy is supposed to be that he's young and he was of the quarterback of a team that went undefeated and won the championship and he has supposed traits. But the reality is he did not throw the ball enough for us to know enough for us to trade up and miss out on draft picks that could help build the football team and still get a quarterback. It's based on hype & likability more than it is reality and the product that he(individually) actually put on the field. It’s all coaching, A QB can suck on college be if he keeps on improving that’s all you need. Just look at Tom Brady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 41 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: I don't think teams are dogmatic about who definitively is or isn't a franchise QB. It's not about whether QB X can be a franchise QB--that's a "yes" for almost every prospect that gets drafted. It's about the probability QB X is going to be a franchise QB. Even strong QB drafts return only 2 or 3 franchise QBs. Chances are, neither McCarthy, Nix, or Penix end up being franchise QBs for the team that drafts them. I think 4 QBs go in round 1. 3 in the first 3 picks and 1 after the top 15. I'm basing this on how the NFL has moved in the past and my evaluation of these QBs. Again, I agree with your base logic as a reason for why it's not a good idea to trade up for say a qb like McCarthy. But I do think if you pass on a player who ends up being a franchise quarterback, that is just as likely to get you fired as trading up and being wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Just now, Jeremy408 said: Again, I agree with your base logic as a reason for why it's not a good idea to trade up for say a qb like McCarthy. But I do think if you pass on a player who ends up being a franchise quarterback, that is just as likely to get you fired as trading up and being wrong. But chances are you won't be passing up a franchise quarterback because most first-round QBs do not end up being franchise quarterbacks--especially mid-first-rounders. My preference from the beginning of this process has been to draft a non-QB at 13 and trade for Fields/trade back into the first for a QB. My preference is Fields, Nix, and Penix in that order (I flip-flop Nix and Penix often). I have low confidence in McCarthy panning out so I would not draft him in the first two rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 9 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said: It’s all coaching, A QB can suck on college be if he keeps on improving that’s all you need. Just look at Tom Brady Nobody made Tom Brady. Tom Brady made Tom Brady. It's the same for every player in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 12 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: But chances are you won't be passing up a franchise quarterback because most first-round QBs do not end up being franchise quarterbacks--especially mid-first-rounders. My preference from the beginning of this process has been to draft a non-QB at 13 and trade for Fields/trade back into the first for a QB. My preference is Fields, Nix, and Penix in that order (I flip-flop Nix and Penix often). I have low confidence in McCarthy panning out so I would not draft him in the first two rounds. I think we agree for the most part. I just prefer Penix to Nix for the most part. And yeah sure I would be down for a trade for fields and just let everybody duke it out with the weapons we have. We just need to make sure we get an RT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 I wouldn’t mind any of the top QB but I’m not sure who id prefer out of Nix and Penix. Penix lack of mobility and injury history scare me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 5 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I wouldn’t mind any of the top QB but I’m not sure who id prefer out of Nix and Penix. Penix lack of mobility and injury history scare me I don't like the fact that Nix doesnt wanna throw the ball down the field. Edited March 15 by Jeremy408 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) How good is it that the Raiders are going into this draft without having a glaring need. I can’t remember the last time the Raiders didn’t reach for a pick because of need and I’m old. Edited March 15 by Bitty 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 42 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: I don't like the fact that Nix doesnt wanna throw the ball down the field. It doesn’t matter what QB we have if the Raiders draft a QB and let him sit on the bench for 3or4 years he’ll be good but in the modern NFL you can’t do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 3 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said: It doesn’t matter what QB we have if the Raiders draft a QB and let him sit on the bench for 3or4 years he’ll be good but in the modern NFL you can’t do that. i think you can sit whoever is drafted 2 years max. Thats actually the problem in the modern NFL you cant do that because of how rookie contracts are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 4 hours ago, NYRaider said: And you know this how? AOC was god awful outside of the Chargers game and Fields is one of the worst passers in the league. You're punting next season without a legit QB. I know this because the odds are very much in my favor and if a qb balls out, it will probably be one none of yall wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 52 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said: It doesn’t matter what QB we have if the Raiders draft a QB and let him sit on the bench for 3or4 years he’ll be good but in the modern NFL you can’t do that. Gotta have a franchise guy in place before you unlock that perk lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 9 hours ago, NYRaider said: I just think RT at #13 when you have no QB and no #1 CB is bad value. You can find a quality RT late in the draft, your odds on hitting on an elite CB or QB late are slim to none. I don't really think having a third cb matters as much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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