dante9876 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 25 minutes ago, Darbsk said: Not for me. I don’t watch basketball or care about that so that’s something I know nothing about. Nobody brings up a LT win % or a DT win %. The QB is a bigger piece but he’s still a piece of a complicated puzzle. Others might think differently but in my opinion they are wrong. Simple as that really. Your opinion is interpretation. That's the difference here. You don't have to agree if wins or losses are a qb stat. But his win and loss record is his record. A superbowl is a team stat. It doesn't change the fact that, that qb has a superbowl. It's a fact by every meaning of the word. No matter if you agree or not. Simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 6 hours ago, dante9876 said: It's no interpretation. His win % is his win %. Nobody yells team when people bring up lebron and Jordan finals records. Your record is your record. Even if it's also the teams record. Comparing football and basketball is ridiculous. First of all QBs do not play defense like players in basketball. Therefore they have less impact in the overall game. Peyton Manning has a horrible playoff record but no one says it’s because of him, he largely had bad defenses who couldn’t finish the job against the Patriots. There’s less players on the court than on the field. That means there’s more pressure on the guys on the court because there’s less players to carry the load. A great QB with a poor offensive line or bad WRs will lose games and be largely ineffective. Coaches also call plays in the NFL that QBs execute, if the play calling is poor that will also affect how well a QB performs no matter how well the QB executes. Look at the Packers with McCarthy, Rodgers only came away with one SB with him as coach. I think W/L matters way more for a Coach or Franchise than it does individual players. Coaches affect the game much more than individual players because they touch more of it. They control the roster, staff and play calling. Heck Andy Reid was making playoff runs with an end of career Alex Smith. I do think you need to take into consideration however when a coach has a star QB, like with Reid he made Mahomes who he is (I think he’ll still be great without him) however if a guy inherited an elite QB like Barry Switzer you gotta take that into account. It also matters for the franchise because players come and go but a winning franchises culture shows up like GB, Pitt and SF. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said: This would be the most ideal situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Chali21 said: Comparing football and basketball is ridiculous. First of all QBs do not play defense like players in basketball. Therefore they have less impact in the overall game. Peyton Manning has a horrible playoff record but no one says it’s because of him, he largely had bad defenses who couldn’t finish the job against the Patriots. There’s less players on the court than on the field. That means there’s more pressure on the guys on the court because there’s less players to carry the load. A great QB with a poor offensive line or bad WRs will lose games and be largely ineffective. Coaches also call plays in the NFL that QBs execute, if the play calling is poor that will also affect how well a QB performs no matter how well the QB executes. Look at the Packers with McCarthy, Rodgers only came away with one SB with him as coach. I think W/L matters way more for a Coach or Franchise than it does individual players. Coaches affect the game much more than individual players because they touch more of it. They control the roster, staff and play calling. Heck Andy Reid was making playoff runs with an end of career Alex Smith. I do think you need to take into consideration however when a coach has a star QB, like with Reid he made Mahomes who he is (I think he’ll still be great without him) however if a guy inherited an elite QB like Barry Switzer you gotta take that into account. It also matters for the franchise because players come and go but a winning franchises culture shows up like GB, Pitt and SF. I Gave the superbowl example also. Any way you slice it. If the qb starts and wins or losses that is his record. That's a fact. If you want to argue if win losses stats matter to qbs is your choice. But when they quote mahommes record vs afc west every year nobody argues it cause they feel he contributed alot to that record. Jimmy g may not be the reason for his record as a starter. But it still remains his record which is fact. We all know what facts are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said: This is what I want. Hobbs is a great nickel. Put him where he is best at. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 @VicTafur CBs David Long and Jakorian Bennett have been aggressive and on the ball and also do the little things you want to see. Bennett has been getting alot of praise. David Long Jr. Is the guy I said to look out for he is probably the most athletically gifted of all the CB's and if he puts it all together we could have some gems in the secondary right now I'm projecting Peters, Long, Hobbs as the top 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 33 minutes ago, raidr4life said: @VicTafur CBs David Long and Jakorian Bennett have been aggressive and on the ball and also do the little things you want to see. Bennett has been getting alot of praise. David Long Jr. Is the guy I said to look out for he is probably the most athletically gifted of all the CB's and if he puts it all together we could have some gems in the secondary right now I'm projecting Peters, Long, Hobbs as the top 3. There would be no point in sitting Bennett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 10 hours ago, dante9876 said: Your opinion is interpretation. That's the difference here. You don't have to agree if wins or losses are a qb stat. But his win and loss record is his record. A superbowl is a team stat. It doesn't change the fact that, that qb has a superbowl. It's a fact by every meaning of the word. No matter if you agree or not. Simple as that. He has a Super Bowl the same way the punter has. The difference is you’re trying to pass it off as a stat to show how great he is and nobody would use that for the punter. He was a valuable part of a good team, with a high win percentage, that is the fact, nothing else. There is no interpretation on my part. You’re the ones making the claim, not me. You are extrapolating it out and interpreting this stat as individual performance rather than viewing it as exactly what it actually is, a team accomplishment. Cripes this is like arguing with Jehovahs Witnesses 😂 Feel free to have the last word if you need it 👍🏼 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 14 hours ago, Darbsk said: The NFL is clearly wrong then It's like saying QB's shouldn't be credited for TD passes, since they didn't score after all, and wouldn't be able to record them without the OL blocking for him or the WR catching it. It's not an individual stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 8 hours ago, dante9876 said: I Gave the superbowl example also. Any way you slice it. If the qb starts and wins or losses that is his record. That's a fact. If you want to argue if win losses stats matter to qbs is your choice. But when they quote mahommes record vs afc west every year nobody argues it cause they feel he contributed alot to that record. Jimmy g may not be the reason for his record as a starter. But it still remains his record which is fact. We all know what facts are correct. I finally get it. We’re arguing the merit, you’re telling us that it’s literally the record that the NFL keeps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 8 hours ago, Jeremy408 said: There would be no point in sitting Bennett I get it but do you really just throw a 4th round rookie into the fire right away? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, raidr4life said: I get it but do you really just throw a 4th round rookie into the fire right away? If he can play right now? Absolutely. .If him and David longer doing the exact same thing there's no point in playing David Long & wasting bennetts cheap contract. If he can't play however, that's obviously a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 49 minutes ago, raidr4life said: I get it but do you really just throw a 4th round rookie into the fire right away? Yup. See Tariq woolen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 56 minutes ago, raidr4life said: I get it but do you really just throw a 4th round rookie into the fire right away? Our defense roster is just that weak which is why I wanted us to draft a lb before the late rounds. Almost any mid round lb would start for us too 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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