2023 Around the League

[Sugashane]

3 hours ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

Mahomes is the interesting experiment,  although I'm not sure what the lesson to take away is.  Clearly an excellent QB, but even he gets limited by lower quality skill positions and... no nice way to say "Matt Nagy" so... Matt Nagy.  

If I cam out with the plan that you need a good QB, good OL, good skills players, and good coaching do you think a team would hire me as Offensive Consultant who Takes a Lot of Time Off?

I love how 'Matt Nagy' has become synonymous with idiot. Just has 'John Hancock' means signature, 'Benedict Arnold' means traitor, etc. An idiot-idiom if you will.

 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

9 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I love how 'Matt Nagy' has become synonymous with idiot. Just has 'John Hancock' means signature, 'Benedict Arnold' means traitor, etc. An idiot-idiom if you will.

 

Just picturing him photoshopped into that McDonalds uniform (if you've seen this, you know what I'm talking about)

I think Nagy occasionally had some itneresting plays to be fair.  Just like Getsy had some amazing scripts.  The thing I'm hoping for from our next coach, at least in terms of what you can see in-game which is all I can really judge, is to adapt to what the opposing team is doing or to adapt to personnel.  With Getsy and Eberflus I feel like they are going to run what they have up next no matter what, or turtle up and go basic and conservative.  It's led to some bizarro offensive plans (remember the Bucs coaching being openly confused that the Bears weren't doing anything they did well last year) and some defensive collapses.  No matter what I'm hoping the next coordinator can look at who's on the field, and what the game time and situation is, and figure out how not to survive it but hopefully get points, yards or enough time. 

[AZBearsFan]

1 hour ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

Just picturing him photoshopped into that McDonalds uniform (if you've seen this, you know what I'm talking about)

I think Nagy occasionally had some itneresting plays to be fair.  Just like Getsy had some amazing scripts.  The thing I'm hoping for from our next coach, at least in terms of what you can see in-game which is all I can really judge, is to adapt to what the opposing team is doing or to adapt to personnel.  With Getsy and Eberflus I feel like they are going to run what they have up next no matter what, or turtle up and go basic and conservative.  It's led to some bizarro offensive plans (remember the Bucs coaching being openly confused that the Bears weren't doing anything they did well last year) and some defensive collapses.  No matter what I'm hoping the next coordinator can look at who's on the field, and what the game time and situation is, and figure out how not to survive it but hopefully get points, yards or enough time. 

Nagy and Getsy have plays but that’s not the same as being a play caller, and the latter is by far the more important part of the role IMO. 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

7 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

Nagy and Getsy have plays but that’s not the same as being a play caller, and the latter is by far the more important part of the role IMO. 

I think it's what's been missing on the offensive sideline.  I really get why so many of you want an OC with playcalling experience (with a good look or results) It's also why I understood how attractive the potential HC candidates from Detroit and Houston were.  Coming to this realization a bit late but if they find a guy with those skills, who they think can work with their players, hire that guy. 

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said:

Nagy and Getsy have plays but that’s not the same as being a play caller, and the latter is by far the more important part of the role IMO. 

I don't understand why so many of these guys are so bad at it.

Their scripts are good and often score. 

Why?  Because the scripts have a good flow and those particular plays are practiced game week so they are executed much better than the greater playbook.

But you should take the same formula you do for a script and expand it in your mind and call plays accordingly.  

 It isn't rocket science. 

For a playbook.  You want a set of plays that attacks every area of the field.  For each situation.  For different down and distances.

You don't want it so complex that mistakes are made or that is hard to execute.  You have to be able to account for anything a defense can do, which is a lot of variables.  That's why zone blocking schemes became so popular.  

Then for most of the plays you want another play that looks like that play that isn't.  Counters.  Play action.  Screens that are go routes.  Etc.

Then when you call plays it is like being a boxer.  You feint.  You jab.  You do one thing in order to set up another thing.  Jabs don't win fights, but they open the body.    Body shots open the head.  And so on.

So many of these guys are just calling random plays off their sheet without a coherent plan of thinking 2 moves ahead.  Getsy had these guys jumping screens he called them so much.  So fake the screen and throw the Go sometimes.  Keep them honest man.

Conversely you watch Flores call a defense.   He isn't being the mouse, he is being the cat.  He sends 5 or 6.  Then he drops 8.   He doesn't sit in base.  He keeps you guessing and confused.

You have to have same mindset on offense.   He wants to play that game you have to make him pay when he is wrong.  Run it down his throat when he drops 8.  Go over his head quickly when he sends 6.  

LaFleur did it beautifully against Chicago and Dallas.  Two pretty good defenses at time.  Master class.  

 

[AZBearsFan]

9 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I don't understand why so many of these guys are so bad at it.

Their scripts are good and often score. 

Why?  Because the scripts have a good flow and those particular plays are practiced game week so they are executed much better than the greater playbook.

But you should take the same formula you do for a script and expand it in your mind and call plays accordingly.  

 It isn't rocket science. 

For a playbook.  You want a set of plays that attacks every area of the field.  For each situation.  For different down and distances.

You don't want it so complex that mistakes are made or that is hard to execute.  You have to be able to account for anything a defense can do, which is a lot of variables.  That's why zone blocking schemes became so popular.  

Then for most of the plays you want another play that looks like that play that isn't.  Counters.  Play action.  Screens that are go routes.  Etc.

Then when you call plays it is like being a boxer.  You feint.  You jab.  You do one thing in order to set up another thing.  Jabs don't win fights, but they open the body.    Body shots open the head.  And so on.

So many of these guys are just calling random plays off their sheet without a coherent plan of thinking 2 moves ahead.  Getsy had these guys jumping screens he called them so much.  So fake the screen and throw the Go sometimes.  Keep them honest man.

Conversely you watch Flores call a defense.   He isn't being the mouse, he is being the cat.  He sends 5 or 6.  Then he drops 8.   He doesn't sit in base.  He keeps you guessing and confused.

You have to have same mindset on offense.   He wants to play that game you have to make him pay when he is wrong.  Run it down his throat when he drops 8.  Go over his head quickly when he sends 6.  

LaFleur did it beautifully against Chicago and Dallas.  Two pretty good defenses at time.  Master class.  

 

Maybe this is a bit simplistic, but, why not just write a longer script? 

[Sugashane]

28 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

Maybe this is a bit simplistic, but, why not just write a longer script? 

I joked about that before but it actually has some merit. I think they're could be longer scripts but like @dll2000 said there has to be a flow. At this level you would think they almost could have a plan with contingencies. Almost like a Choose Your Adventure style book. If they are running more cover three then attack with this, if they are pressing then thos play, etc.

That's obviously far too simplistic but with the money being thrown around you can't tell me there isn't someone doing analytics and statistical analysis that would allow for some assistance. Then on GameDay they could give feedback as they see what is working.

There is an art to playcalling but ego gets in the way too much too. I still think about how effective the Bears were in I formation one year under Nagy, but he refused to use it often. Even reporters were asking why,  then the infamous, "I'm not an idiot" comment came about. Abuse what you do well, when they overplay have a counterpunch for it.

I'd still love to see the majority of calls be pass plays, they get to the line fast and then see where they may have the numbers advantage, or if they can see man/zone. If there is an advantage then audible to a run there. Manning was doing this 20 years ago with Tom Moore, no reason it can't be done now with the way the passing game and technology/analytics have developed.

[dll2000]

7 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

Maybe this is a bit simplistic, but, why not just write a longer script? 

When I called plays I did that sometimes.  Not a longer one, but different ones.  

It helps because you can see a pattern of the set up. When you lull them into a pattern and hit your counter.   

But no plan survives contact with the enemy completely intact so over doing it becomes a waste of time. You have to be ready to change your plan on fly.  

[dll2000]

Just now, dll2000 said:

When I called plays I did that sometimes.  Not a longer one, but different ones.  

It helps because you can see a pattern of the set up. When you lull them into a pattern and hit your counter.   

But no plan survives contact with the enemy completely intact so over doing it becomes a waste of time. You have to be ready to change your plan on fly.  

A lot of times it is because you underestimated one of their players and he is wrecking you.  Or one your guys is just having  a bad day like Jenkins against GB.  A lot of different things can happen in a game you didn’t plan for.   

[HuskieBear]

21 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Just has 'John Hancock' means signature

you mean Herbie Hancock?

[dll2000]

11 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

you mean Herbie Hancock?

LOL

[Madmike90]

 

Good to see Pierce get a shot after bringing that team back from the brink...I also think Mark Davis knows he made a mistake not promoting his last interim HC. 

[StLunatic88]

36 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Good to see Pierce get a shot after bringing that team back from the brink...I also think Mark Davis knows he made a mistake not promoting his last interim HC. 

I think its just as much, if not more that Mark Davis is running out of money to pay another big dollar HC

[Madmike90]

2 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

I think its just as much, if not more that Mark Davis is running out of money to pay another big dollar HC

Could also without doubt be a factor.

[Madmike90]

Baltimore if they win this game have then beaten 8 teams with winning records by 14 points or more this season...tough to see past them to win it all right now.