Villian Draft

[Louis Friend]

They say it takes at least 3 seasons to evaluate a new Front Office. How have the Lions drafted under this Villian Era? What have you liked and disliked? What are your favorite moves and least favorite moves? Where would you like to see the Front Office address next year? 

 

Draft Room:

General Manager- Brad Holmes

Assistant General Manager- Ray Agnew

Senior Executive- John Dorsey

Special Assistant- Chris Spielman

Head Coach- Dan Campbell

 

This is who’ve they’ve drafted with the Lions so far: Years 2021-2024

QB- 23-Hendon Hooker

RB- 23-Jahmyr Gibbs/24- Sione Vaki/21-Jermar Jefferson

WR- 23-Antoine Green

LT- 24-Giovanni Manu

LG- 23-Colby Sorsdal

C-

RG- 24-Christian Mahogany

RT- 21-Penei Sewell

TE- 23-Sam LaPorta/22-James Mitchell

SLOT- 21-Amon-Ra St. Brown

WR- 22-Jameson Williams

 

DE- 22-Aidan Hutchinson/22-James Houston

DT- 21-Alim McNeill/24-Mekhi Wingo

DT- 23-Brodric Martin/21-Levi Onwuzurike

DE- 22-Josh Paschal

LB- 21-Derrick Barnes/22-Malcolm Rodriguez

LB- 23-Jack Campbell

NB- 23-Brian Branch

CB- 24-Terrion Arnold

S- 21-Ifeatu Melifonwu/24-Sione Vaki

S- 22-Kerby Joseph

CB- 24-Ennis Rakestraw/22-Chase Lucas

Edited 1 hour ago by Louis Friend

[Sllim Pickens]

I think everyone has been relatively happy with the work this staff has done.  Some things are questionable, like his second rounds, but in general if you aren't happy, you aren't a Lions fan because he has made us significantly better.  I also think you should add in the UDFA's because we have had some luck with them as well.  I'll go into some detail but this will primarily exclude 2023 because we have no info on that class yet. 

Likes:

• He has made the right, albeit obvious picks early in the first round.  Sewell and Hutch are franchise players and they have been developing amazingly so far. 
• I like he doesn't force needs and reach on players.  He has his guys and he gets them.  Waiting is why we ended up with ARSB instead of Rondale Moore, Terrace Marshall, or Dwayne Eskridge who were ranked higher.  
• He has a solid eye for talent in the mid/later rounds.  Finding gems later in the draft that contribute is 100% key for building a contender.  You only are as good as your weakest link and making those weak leaks less weak is huge.  Guys like Rodrigo, Houston, ARSB, Kerby, McNeil and those UDFAs I mentioned above are why we are competing.  Our stars are playing like stars and the rest of our starters are now becoming starter quality.  And we are adding depth on top of that. 
• Willingness to move around in the draft.  He moves up to get his guys and moves down when he wants more value.  Its nice to see some movement in the draft finally. 

Dislikes:

• Positional importance was an odd thing for me this year.  As much as I hope Gibbs is that guy, it seems early to take a RB.  Campbell I wanted bad but also understand some dont want a LB that early.  
• I dont like how many chances we take on injured players.  Getting nothing from Levi has hurt us.  Same with Jamo albeit thats also partially his betting that will hold him out longer.  Last year we drafted Jamo, Paschal, and Mitchell who all had some injury issues known during the draft.  This year it is Hooker.  Maybe we are getting value by guys dropping in the draft but at the same time there is a limited time these guys are cheap and missing 1 or 2 years because of injury is a big blow.  
• I am sort of shocked we haven't attacked the O line more.  Having solid depth on the OL is huge given how often they get nicked up and we don't have a lot there at this point.  He has signed some vets to fill in but again finding cheap depth is important to long term success.  

 

[Lions017]

They have seemed to make pretty good choices overall so far. It is clear that the team is in a much better position than they were in when Holmes and Campbell took over. With Quinn and Patricia we moved backward, now we're at least going forward again. 

The best things to me so far, at least, have been the way that they've hit on the early picks (Hutchinson and Sewell are studs) and they've found such great value later on. Getting guys like ARSB, Kerby Joseph, Malcolm Rodriguez, James Houston, etc. on days 2 or 3 is a huge difference-maker. 

[Just Want A Title]

The only real obvious miss so far has been Levi Onwuzurike.  That said, a couple of things have to be taken into consideration.

1.  No GM gets every pick right.  In fact, a lot good GMs make some pretty glaring mistakes.  That said, I think the first two drafts und Brad Holmes have been very good.  The jury is out on their 2023 draft class but almost all of their picks have a clear path to roster spots and are probably significant upgrades.  That could even be true of their 7th round pick Antoine Green.  His performance has been in the top tier of NFL GMs.

2.  Some folks will say that he hasn't addressed this position or that position but the roster he started with was largely bereft of talent with the exception of Tracy Walker, Jonah Jackson, Romeo Okwara, Taylor Decker and Frank Ragnow.  Honestly, his first three drafts, including the 2023 draft, have been been a mad scramble to plug really glaring weaknesses.  At this point, he has found solutions to just about every starting position and a lot of depth positions in three drafts despite the fact the he started with almost nothing.

3.  He didn't pull a Jacksonville Jaguars and throw money at free agents just because he could.  He said he would build through the draft and that is exactly what he has done for the most part.  Most of his free agent contracts have been pretty good contracts.  He has made really shrewd moves by bringing in players like Evan Brown, Isaiah Buggs, John Cominsky and Jamall Williams that have made significant contributions.  He brought in some much more high profile players this year but still didn't break the bank.

4.  Brad Holmes is already be the best GM the Lions have had in the last four decades.  Yes, he made some obvious picks but that is more about not over-thinking and staying true to his draft board as well as his player evaluations.  He has found significant contributors in just about every round of the draft and with UDFAs (watch out for Starling Thomas V this year)

5.  Circling back a bit to my first point:  We really need to appreciate what Brad Holmes has done with his first three drafts but we also have to be realistic.  Not every draft pick is going to pan out.  Even some high round selections aren't going to perform as expected and some might bust for any number of reasons.  I think we need to avoid magnifying each "draft miss" and be more concerned with the talent level of our roster.  

6.  The biggest challenge for Brad Holmes going forward is to figure which players we will keep, which players allow to move on and structuring contracts to keep our playoff/Super Bowl Window open as long as possible. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Just Want A Title

[Nnivolcm]

8 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

• Positional importance was an odd thing for me this year.  As much as I hope Gibbs is that guy, it seems early to take a RB.  Campbell I wanted bad but also understand some dont want a LB that early.  

 

Before the draft I thought I had an idea of Holmes' draft strategy. He used early picks on positions most agree have the greatest impact (OT, Edge, WR, DT). This year's first round caught me off guard with a RB and stand up LB in the first round. My rationalization for it is Holmes doesn't see as many holes on the roster, so he was ok with getting good players even if they weren't playing the typical high value positions. 

[Louis Friend]

3 hours ago, Nnivolcm said:

Before the draft I thought I had an idea of Holmes' draft strategy. He used early picks on positions most agree have the greatest impact (OT, Edge, WR, DT). This year's first round caught me off guard with a RB and stand up LB in the first round. My rationalization for it is Holmes doesn't see as many holes on the roster, so he was ok with getting good players even if they weren't playing the typical high value positions. 

The problem for me is, I've been saying LB is a big need and everyone, including analysts, kept telling me that the Lions were comfortable with their LBs, they don't value the position and liked the players they have more than fans and didn't see it as a need. IF LB was not a need, how can you justify taking Campbell at #18? These first round picks went against the very narrative Lions reporters have been feeding us over the last year. 

[Karnage84]

10 hours ago, Nnivolcm said:

Before the draft I thought I had an idea of Holmes' draft strategy. He used early picks on positions most agree have the greatest impact (OT, Edge, WR, DT). This year's first round caught me off guard with a RB and stand up LB in the first round. My rationalization for it is Holmes doesn't see as many holes on the roster, so he was ok with getting good players even if they weren't playing the typical high value positions. 

I feel like it was more about their board and getting good players they liked. I believe the Lions only had 14 1st round grades on players and there were 4 guys at the combine they really liked. I heard something about how they wound up with 5? guys they had 1st Rd grades on (Gibbs, Campbell, LaPorta, Branch, ???). 

Time will tell but it sounds like this was a weaker draft in their eyes. Taking the best players in a bad draft isn't a terrible idea, especially if you feel they can add an immediate impact. 

[Just Want A Title]

9 hours ago, Louis Friend said:

The problem for me is, I've been saying LB is a big need and everyone, including analysts, kept telling me that the Lions were comfortable with their LBs, they don't value the position and liked the players they have more than fans and didn't see it as a need. IF LB was not a need, how can you justify taking Campbell at #18? These first round picks went against the very narrative Lions reporters have been feeding us over the last year. 

You are 100% correct. LB has been a need for the Lions since DeAndre Levy's string of injuries.  A lot of pundits kept saying the Lions were comfortable with their LBs.  I can think of one beat writer in particular who repeatedly insisted that Lions didn't value LBs that highly in their defense.  Clearly, the pundits and that beat writer had no idea what Brad Holmes and his staff were thinking or how they assessed the 2023 draft class.

What really burns me about the draft coverage this year is that once it became known that Jack Campbell could have been taken between 19-28 most of the talking heads, including some local people refused to walk back their "over-drafting/positional value" statements. That happened with Jahmyr Gibbs, Jack Campbell and Sam LaPorta.  A lot of these same people claimed to have sources "inside Allen Park" but yet they really had no idea how the Lions viewed this draft class.  

The response of the media to Brodric Martin has been been even worse.  He may have flown under the radar of the media pundits but NFL scouts were were dialed in after his performance at the Shrine Bowl.  It has been almost a month since the draft and not one of these "pundits" has brought a scout into a podcast or used their input for an article on what the Lions see in Brodric Martin.  Even some of their UDFAs have gotten more in-depth analysis than Brodric Martin.  Much like the other picks, shortly after the draft news quietly bubbled up that there were 3-4 teams picking not far behind the Lions who had legitimate interest in Brodric Martin.  

The divergence between media evaluations and actual NFL scouts was a lot wider this year than any year I can recall.

[Just Want A Title]

2 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

I feel like it was more about their board and getting good players they liked. I believe the Lions only had 14 1st round grades on players and there were 4 guys at the combine they really liked. I heard something about how they wound up with 5? guys they had 1st Rd grades on (Gibbs, Campbell, LaPorta, Branch, ???). 

Time will tell but it sounds like this was a weaker draft in their eyes. Taking the best players in a bad draft isn't a terrible idea, especially if you feel they can add an immediate impact. 

After the draft, Brad Holmes mentioned that he thought the strength of the draft was in Rounds 1-3 and that there was a significant drop-off compared to other years.  There was some chatter about some NFL GMs having similar opinions prior to the draft.  He leaned into what he considered the strength of the draft as a whole.  The end result is that the Lions have a roster that is more complete and has a higher talent-level than any Lions roster in a long time.

[General Tso]

52 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

You are 100% correct. LB has been a need for the Lions since DeAndre Levy's string of injuries.  A lot of pundits kept saying the Lions were comfortable with their LBs.  I can think of one beat writer in particular who repeatedly insisted that Lions didn't value LBs that highly in their defense.  Clearly, the pundits and that beat writer had no idea what Brad Holmes and his staff were thinking or how they assessed the 2023 draft class.

What really burns me about the draft coverage this year is that once it became known that Jack Campbell could have been taken between 19-28 most of the talking heads, including some local people refused to walk back their "over-drafting/positional value" statements. That happened with Jahmyr Gibbs, Jack Campbell and Sam LaPorta.  A lot of these same people claimed to have sources "inside Allen Park" but yet they really had no idea how the Lions viewed this draft class.  

The response of the media to Brodric Martin has been been even worse.  He may have flown under the radar of the media pundits but NFL scouts were were dialed in after his performance at the Shrine Bowl.  It has been almost a month since the draft and not one of these "pundits" has brought a scout into a podcast or used their input for an article on what the Lions see in Brodric Martin.  Even some of their UDFAs have gotten more in-depth analysis than Brodric Martin.  Much like the other picks, shortly after the draft news quietly bubbled up that there were 3-4 teams picking not far behind the Lions who had legitimate interest in Brodric Martin.  

The divergence between media evaluations and actual NFL scouts was a lot wider this year than any year I can recall.

Because both things can be true.

Campbell could have been taken in the 1st round by other teams, but LB can still be a non-premium position.

[Sllim Pickens]

11 hours ago, Louis Friend said:

The problem for me is, I've been saying LB is a big need and everyone, including analysts, kept telling me that the Lions were comfortable with their LBs, they don't value the position and liked the players they have more than fans and didn't see it as a need. IF LB was not a need, how can you justify taking Campbell at #18? These first round picks went against the very narrative Lions reporters have been feeding us over the last year. 

Obviously you know the IF is a big if and that it was actually a need, no matter what the reporters said.  It wasn't a "typical" Lions need because usually we have so many holes on our team that it seems crazy to grab a LB early before fixing other issues.  This year we had significantly less glaring holes, especially at positions of need (Kancey had a case to be the pick based on positional need but he is similar to Paschal) so again it goes to BPA.  Most teams that have had great defenses have had great LB play and although our staff obviously is higher on Anzalone than fans are, he was an average LB last year.  And Rodrigo was great for a 6th round rookie but overall was average and fell off down the stretch.  Upgrading the position was definitely a need, especially after we upgraded CB/S in free agency. I was high on Campbell all offseason.  His counting stats, advanced stats, RAS, PFF grade etc all were elite and I am glad we grabbed him.  

[Louis Friend]

8 hours ago, Just Want A Title said:

You are 100% correct. LB has been a need for the Lions since DeAndre Levy's string of injuries.  A lot of pundits kept saying the Lions were comfortable with their LBs.  I can think of one beat writer in particular who repeatedly insisted that Lions didn't value LBs that highly in their defense.  Clearly, the pundits and that beat writer had no idea what Brad Holmes and his staff were thinking or how they assessed the 2023 draft class.

What really burns me about the draft coverage this year is that once it became known that Jack Campbell could have been taken between 19-28 most of the talking heads, including some local people refused to walk back their "over-drafting/positional value" statements. That happened with Jahmyr Gibbs, Jack Campbell and Sam LaPorta.  A lot of these same people claimed to have sources "inside Allen Park" but yet they really had no idea how the Lions viewed this draft class.  

The response of the media to Brodric Martin has been been even worse.  He may have flown under the radar of the media pundits but NFL scouts were were dialed in after his performance at the Shrine Bowl.  It has been almost a month since the draft and not one of these "pundits" has brought a scout into a podcast or used their input for an article on what the Lions see in Brodric Martin.  Even some of their UDFAs have gotten more in-depth analysis than Brodric Martin.  Much like the other picks, shortly after the draft news quietly bubbled up that there were 3-4 teams picking not far behind the Lions who had legitimate interest in Brodric Martin.  

The divergence between media evaluations and actual NFL scouts was a lot wider this year than any year I can recall.

Jeff Risdon was beating that drum pretty loudly (and I like Jeff), but others were right behind him. In fact, anytime Lions fans would bring up LB, S or TE as needs, it was the same bit... we don't know what the front office thinks, they like their guys, they know more than the fans, and the writers have more insight then the fans so we are all just stupid and don't know what the team expects from those positions, etc. Tim Twentyman likes to play the "WE obviously know more" card ad nauseum. 

[dll2000]

I saw title and thought we were going to vote on coolest comic villains. 

[Nnivolcm]

On 5/27/2023 at 8:20 AM, dll2000 said:

I saw title and thought we were going to vote on coolest comic villains. 

Who would your first pick be?

[dll2000]

14 hours ago, Nnivolcm said:

Who would your first pick be?

Victor Von Doom.   80s comic version.