Top 10 DB Units in the NFL

[scar988]

13 hours ago, Ozzy said:

They could move up to the top 10 no question.  Hellams I am not a huge fan of but maybe he is better than Abernathy.  Tre Flowers is washed up as a player but maybe they can get something out of him.  I still say Mike Hughes is best as a slot corner but I have not seen much of Dee Alford.

 

Okudah always gets hurt so not sure one can lock him in and is hurt currently.  Maybe Flowers or Hughes can take that spot.  Bates is a super star safety and that was a great pickup and Terrell is already a high end safety.  Big key long term is Phillips, that dude can play and will surprise a lot of him, he was a big time playmaker on Utah, had a great season last year and I was surprised he dropped so far in the draft, he was a great pickup and is a smooth coverage corner.  

I'm just giving you who is actually playing where and who is winning the camp battles. Alford is the starting nickel. Though, I do think Phillips by the end of the year could be the starter outside at RCB with Terrell at LCB.

[MSURacerDT55]

On 8/13/2023 at 6:53 PM, Ozzy said:

Cleveland Browns:  They have a lot of solid corners are a stud one in Ward.  Thornhill is a good safety that will help solidify things on the back end.  If they can keep Newsome healthy and AJ Green or Emerson standout they could be pretty solid.  Also will help greatly if Graham or Mitchell can take over that slot position potentially but maybe they just move Ward inside on those situations and have Emerson outside.

CB: Denzel Ward/ Martin Emerson
SS: Grant Delpit/ Rodney McLeod
FS: Juan Thornhill/ Ronnie Hickman
CB: Greg Newsome II/ AJ Green
Slot: Thomas Graham/ Cam Mitchell

I know this is preseason but I think this could be a top-10 unit:

- They will be better because they will play exclusively man because it fits the players skillset instead of wasting their skillsets playing zone

-I'll stand on a table and vouch for Emerson, he is going to be elite. I think by the end of the season he will be the best CB on the team. I think we will have two elite outside corners 

- Cam Mitchell is a find, he is an ultra aggressive ball hawk

- Thornhill is everything John Johnson III wasn't 

- If you go back and watch Delpit's last 8 games, he started playing like he was his sophomore year when he looked like future top 10 pick.

- I also think the defensive line will play a part in their success 

 

On 8/13/2023 at 6:53 PM, Ozzy said:

SS: Terrell Edmunds/ Sydney Brown

He was one of my favorite players in this draft, he is going to be a stud. I actually think I read he is already starting and making plays. He is a FOOTBALL PLAYER

[Ozzy]

2 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I know this is preseason but I think this could be a top-10 unit:

- They will be better because they will play exclusively man because it fits the players skillset instead of wasting their skillsets playing zone

-I'll stand on a table and vouch for Emerson, he is going to be elite. I think by the end of the season he will be the best CB on the team. I think we will have two elite outside corners 

- Cam Mitchell is a find, he is an ultra aggressive ball hawk

- Thornhill is everything John Johnson III wasn't 

- If you go back and watch Delpit's last 8 games, he started playing like he was his sophomore year when he looked like future top 10 pick.

- I also think the defensive line will play a part in their success 

 

He was one of my favorite players in this draft, he is going to be a stud. I actually think I read he is already starting and making plays. He is a FOOTBALL PLAYER

I really like Sydney Brown, he could be a saving grace for that unit because I am not a huge fan of Edmunds or Blankenship long term and honestly Edmunds has disappointed while he has been in the NFL.  Seriously though they will miss Gardner-Johnson a lot I feel and his absence will impact that defense.  

 

That would be great and super impressive if Emerson is better than Ward next year.  If so then clearly that unit would shoot way up.  I always liked the potential of AJ Green but never sure he will actually show that on the field.  Delpit yeah if he can be elite that would help greatly and like I said I do need to watch him more.  

Who is the slot then?  Would Ward move in there when needed or Newsome even though I feel Newsome is better outside.  That is an issue to have someone take over that spot and if Emerson develops maybe Ward moves inside.  Maybe he will stay healthier then because he has never played a full season in a 5 year NFL career which does impact that team especially when he misses time in the playoffs like a few years back.  

 

I agree Mitchell was a good pickup, aggressive corner with good ball skills and reaction time, he was one of the few bring spots on D for Northwestern last year and actually competed out there.  Thomas Graham I like as well he has great quickness and slot potential.  

[MSURacerDT55]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Who is the slot then? 

I honestly don't know because Newsome is an outside to me forced to play inside and Ward's play inside had them one of the best in the country with Arnette and Lattimore on the outside and Cam Mitchell's skillset fits what they want in a slot corner. Newsome is the wildcard, If he plays well, I don't know how we can keep Ward, Emerson and Newsome with the contracts they are going to demand.

[Ozzy]

On 8/14/2023 at 1:17 PM, AngusMcFife said:

Dang the Ravens can't even make an honorable mention with the trio of Marcus Williams, Kyle Hamilton, and Marlon Humphrey? 

The Ravens were a top-3 defense last year with Roquan in the fold, but apparently their D-line/edge and secondary are all mediocre or worse. Amazing how they were able to be such a good defense with players who aren't good. 

Once more the issue of depth.  Marlon Humphrey is now out with having foot surgery.  Thus that unit looks a hell of a lot different doesn't it?  As if depth does not matter?  Yeah it matters a hell of a lot, now they will greatly depend on the rookie Kelly to become a player instantly which is my point and why I took depth into consideration big time!

 

Marlon Humphrey will miss what 1/3 to 1/2 of the season possibly?
Rock Ya-Sin is even out currently but should be back soon.
Domarion Williams is out to start the season
Trayvon Mullen will miss the entire season but he was not really in the plans anyway
 

 

CB Daryl Worley/ Kyu Kelly/ Jalyn Armour-Davis
SS Kyle Hamilton/ Geno Stone
FS Marcus Williams/ ArDarius Washington
CB Brandon Stephens/ Kevon Seymour
Slot Arthur Maulet/ Brandon Stephens

 

I assume Stephens is moved back to corner or plays the slot if Maulet cannot hang there.  Then they put Washington as the backup safety.  Either way that looks a hell of a lot different obviously without Humphrey in there and Ya-Sin.  So yeah it could be a big problem but maybe some of those young guys will step up.  

[Ozzy]

5 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

I think this is the problem. You're biased based on previous college evaluation and apply your projections to your rankings, but your projections don't (always) jive with reality.

Sure they do not always "jive" but at least I am not just parroting something I read, heard a reporter say or I saw on PFF. 

 

At least I have an opinion and not just say I have not heard/read good things about them, at least I make up my own mind on players and I thank those that actually comment on specific players not just speak in generalities.  I have a 7 round mock draft with team needs created a month ago for the up coming year, the full list of players five months ago.  Forgive me but the baseline is a bit different unless others can say the same, and they cannot.  Then the standard, oh this is the NFL it does not matter, well how do you think guys get picked up as UDFA or after they get cut?  They know all the players and follow the ones they like and usually pickup guys they liked back when they were drafted if they are available.  So it matters.

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Once more the issue of depth.  Marlon Humphrey is now out with having foot surgery.  Thus that unit looks a hell of a lot different doesn't it?  As if depth does not matter?  Yeah it matters a hell of a lot, now they will greatly depend on the rookie Kelly to become a player instantly which is my point and why I took depth into consideration big time!

 

Marlon Humphrey will miss what 1/3 to 1/2 of the season possibly?
Rock Ya-Sin is even out currently but should be back soon.
Domarion Williams is out to start the season
Trayvon Mullen will miss the entire season but he was not really in the plans anyway
 

 

CB Daryl Worley/ Kyu Kelly/ Jalyn Armour-Davis
SS Kyle Hamilton/ Geno Stone
FS Marcus Williams/ ArDarius Washington
CB Brandon Stephens/ Kevon Seymour
Slot Arthur Maulet/ Brandon Stephens

 

I assume Stephens is moved back to corner or plays the slot if Maulet cannot hang there.  Then they put Washington as the backup safety.  Either way that looks a hell of a lot different obviously without Humphrey in there and Ya-Sin.  So yeah it could be a big problem but maybe some of those young guys will step up.  

According to the Ravens beat reporter Humphrey might be back for the opener but also could miss a game or two. 

[The BILLievers]

13 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

According to the Ravens beat reporter Humphrey might be back for the opener but also could miss a game or two. 

It does sound like the situations very much up in the air right now and a true timeline isn't known. 

Everything I'm seeing is saying at least a month so at best it's looking like a week 3 return. 

I'm sure we'll find out more as the season gets closer. 

[Ozzy]

31 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

According to the Ravens beat reporter Humphrey might be back for the opener but also could miss a game or two. 

Well great for him if that is the case but surgery to me is never a simple thing or as simple as some make it out to be.  The Ravens depth will no question be tested at CB that is for sure, and with any team top guys can be gone in a flash and they better be prepared for it with quality depth.  

[Jakuvious]

4 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

According to the Ravens beat reporter Humphrey might be back for the opener but also could miss a game or two. 

Who cares what the beat reporter says? Did you or did you not watch Marlon Humphrey's foot in college?

[Soko]

18 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Once more the issue of depth.  Marlon Humphrey is now out with having foot surgery.  Thus that unit looks a hell of a lot different doesn't it?  As if depth does not matter?  Yeah it matters a hell of a lot, now they will greatly depend on the rookie Kelly to become a player instantly which is my point and why I took depth into consideration big time!

So the Ravens relying on a rookie CB (if Humphrey is hurt*) means they lack depth, but the Bears relying on Stevenson to be CB2 puts them in the top 10? 

Most of the top 10 looks like a bottom 16 secondary without their CB1. Marlon wasn’t even out of the lineup when you made this thread, why’re you leaning on his injury to justify not having the Ravens higher? 

[Ozzy]

24 minutes ago, Soko said:

So the Ravens relying on a rookie CB (if Humphrey is hurt*) means they lack depth, but the Bears relying on Stevenson to be CB2 puts them in the top 10? 

Most of the top 10 looks like a bottom 16 secondary without their CB1. Marlon wasn’t even out of the lineup when you made this thread, why’re you leaning on his injury to justify not having the Ravens higher? 

No other teams could handle losing their top corner easier because they have depth behind it.   That injury is just proof that depth matters as much as many try to pretend it does not and honestly most it seems do not care about who is behind the starters or just simply do not know who is behind the starters.  The Bears have Michael Ojemudia, Terell Smith who has a ton of talent along with Kindle Vildor and maybe Greg Stroman but most likely he does not make the roster.  That is not even considering Gordon the slot who could no question play boundary if asked then Vildor goes into the slot or Ojemudia.  

[Soko]

3 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

No other teams could handle losing their top corner easier because they have depth behind it.   That injury is just proof that depth matters as much as many try to pretend it does not and honestly most it seems do not care about who is behind the starters or just simply do not know who is behind the starters.  The Bears have Michael Ojemudia, Terell Smith who has a ton of talent along with Kindle Vildor and maybe Greg Stroman but most likely he does not make the roster.  That is not even considering Gordon the slot who could no question play boundary if asked then Vildor goes into the slot or Ojemudia.  

Nobody thinks depth doesn’t matter. They just think having a CB1 that’s an A and a CB4 that’s a D is more valuable than a CB1 and CB4 that are both Cs.

Ojemudia and Vildor are JAGs. Maybe a hair above the likes of most of the Ravens’ CB room, but that doesn’t make up the huge difference between Humphrey-Johnson, and the Ravens’ safety combo. Rock Ya-Sin would be CB2 in Chicago. 

On 8/13/2023 at 6:53 PM, Ozzy said:

CB: Sauce Gardner/ Brandin Echols
SS: Jordan Whitehead/ Ashtyn Davis/ Trey Dean
FS: Adrian Amos/ Tony Adams
CB: DJ Reed/ Bryce Hall
Slot: Michael Carter II/ Jimmy Moreland

How’s this group without Sauce? DJ Reed and a room of mostly JAGs.

On 8/13/2023 at 6:53 PM, Ozzy said:

CB: Pat Surtain II/ Riley Moss
SS: Justin Simmons/ JL Skinner/ PJ Locke
FS: Kareem Jackson/ Caden Sterns/ Delarrin Turner-Yell
CB: Damarri Mathis/ Fabian Moreau
Slot: K'Waun Williams/ Essang Bassey

This CB room without Surtain?

On 8/13/2023 at 6:53 PM, Ozzy said:

CB: Jaylon Johnson/ Kindle Vildor
SS: Jaquan Brisker/ AJ Thomas
FS: Eddie Jackson/ Elijah Hicks
CB: Tyrique Stevenson/ Michael Ojemudia
Slot: Kyler Gordon

This group without Johnson is grotesque.

On 8/13/2023 at 6:53 PM, Ozzy said:

CB: Cameron Sutton/ Will Harris
SS: Kerby Joseph/ Brian Branch
FS: Tracy Walker/ Ifeatu Melifonwu/ Brady Breeze
CB: CJ Gardner-Johnson/ Jerry Jacobs
Slot: Emmanuel Moseley

So we’ll exclude Humphrey because he might miss a game or two in the beginning, but we won’t exclude Moseley who isn’t set to be ready Week 1? Makes sense.

On 8/13/2023 at 6:53 PM, Ozzy said:

CB: Marshon Lattimore/ L. Johnson/ Isaac Yiadom

SS: Marcus Maye/ Johnathan Abram/ Smoke Monday
FS: Tyrann Mathieu/ Jordan Howden/ JT Gray
CB: Paulson Adebo/ Alontae Taylor
Slot: Bradley Roby

This CB group without Lattimore….

On 8/13/2023 at 6:53 PM, Ozzy said:

CB: Tyson Campbell
SS: Rayshawn Jenkins/ Andrew Wingard
FS: Andre Cisco/ Daniel Thomas
CB: Darious Williams/ Erick Hallett
Slot: Antonio Johnson/ Tre Herndon

This CB group without Campbell…

On 8/13/2023 at 6:53 PM, Ozzy said:

CB: Xavien Howard/ Kader Kohou
SS Jevon Holland/ Verone McKinley
FS DeShon Elliott/ Brandon Jones
CB Jalen Ramsey/ Eli Apple
Slot: Cam Smith/ Nik Needham

Again, we’ll include Ramsey, but exclude Humphrey?

[Ozzy]

14 minutes ago, Soko said:

Nobody thinks depth doesn’t matter. They just think having a CB1 that’s an A and a CB4 that’s a D is more valuable than a CB1 and CB4 that are both Cs.

Ojemudia and Vildor are JAGs. Maybe a hair above the likes of most of the Ravens’ CB room, but that doesn’t make up the huge difference between Humphrey-Johnson, and the Ravens’ safety combo. Rock Ya-Sin would be CB2 in Chicago. 

How’s this group without Sauce? DJ Reed and a room of mostly JAGs.

This CB room without Surtain?

This group without Johnson is grotesque.

So we’ll exclude Humphrey because he might miss a game or two in the beginning, but we won’t exclude Moseley who isn’t set to be ready Week 1? Makes sense.

This CB group without Lattimore….

This CB group without Campbell…

Again, we’ll include Ramsey, but exclude Humphrey?

Let me get one thing straight, I did not "exclude" Humphrey from the list for the Ravens  because he is hurt now, so not sure where you are getting that from.  I just commented that I said they were weak and super thin at CB before and now they are even more thin with that happening, especially if one counts Williams out and Ya-Sin who is out currently.  I never "excluded" them or removed them from any list so not sure where you get that from.  

 

I didn't say all of the teams would not have a problem but many are far more ready for it than others.  The Bears I disagree with your take on them, they have Gordon in the slot currently and I feel he could be just fine as a starting outside corner and they would not miss much with him out there.

 

Not luck you did not include Philadelphia, New England they have the two deepest CB groups in the NFL.

 

The Lions are a team that could miss a guy or two and not have any major issue, they are very deep and versatile in the secondary and again no clue where you get this excluding from so get off that how about.  

 

But yes many teams are in that situation where you miss the top guy and there would be major issues.  Either way I said the Ravens lacked depth especially at CB and now have injuries, how is that not the case?  

[Soko]

24 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

But yes many teams are in that situation where you miss the top guy and there would be major issues.  Either way I said the Ravens lacked depth especially at CB and now have injuries, how is that not the case?  

It is the case, they don’t have much CB depth. But neither do the Bears, meanwhile 3/4 of the Ravens’ starting secondary is superior to the Bears’ starters. Even if you want to throw out Johnson and Humphrey - Rock Ya-Sin had a better season than Gordon did. 

Knocking a group for having weak depth is fine, but you’re doing it arbitrarily. Groups like Chicago and Detroit don’t have top end talent at corner, and their safeties are undoubtedly weaker than Baltimore’s. Their depth is marginally better, but why are you weighing the bottom as heavily as the top? Being better at CB3 and CB4 shouldn’t be an excuse to put them ahead of a group that has better safeties, a better CB 1, and a push at CB2 (at best).

Edited August 17, 2023 by Soko