Top 10 DB Units in the NFL

[INbengalfan]

So KC and Cincy are left completely out of your top 17 because they have younger players?  Ummm... OK.  I get the shadow cast over us after losing Bell and Bates, but KC?  They all proved it last year, especially the second half.  CTB played extremely well for us after week 8 and starting.  What Hill lacks in experience vs Bates, he more than makes up with superior athleticism.  He and Scott will make mistakes early, but like KC last year, they pull it all together mid season and form a solid group moving towards January and beyond.

[AngusMcFife]

Dang the Ravens can't even make an honorable mention with the trio of Marcus Williams, Kyle Hamilton, and Marlon Humphrey? 

The Ravens were a top-3 defense last year with Roquan in the fold, but apparently their D-line/edge and secondary are all mediocre or worse. Amazing how they were able to be such a good defense with players who aren't good. 

[scar988]

19 hours ago, Ozzy said:

 

Atlanta Falcons:  Could be way higher but depends on how the other corner opposite Terrell turns out.  Maybe it is Hughes but he is so good in the slot, or Flowers but he might be too old and Okudah seems to get hurt all the time.  Phillips is the key I think, he could be a stud corner inside or out, and if he plays well that could make the unit pretty good.  The safeties are solid, Grant is good and Bates is a super star, great pickup and he is one of the best coverage safeties in the NFL.

CB: AJ Terrell
SS: Richie Grant/ Jaylinn Hawkins
FS: Jessie Bates: Micah Abernathy
CB: Jeff Okudah/ Tre Flowers
Slot: Mike Hughes/ Clark Phillips

You're not correct on this depth chart order. This is what it is right now:

CB A.J. Terrell / Mike Hughes

SS Richie Grant / Demarcco Hellams

FS Jessie Bates / Jaylinn Hawkins

CB Jeff Okudah / Tre Flowers

CB Dee Alford / Clark Phillips

I think they could easily end up as a top 10 unit this year in the secondary.

[AngusMcFife]

I like how the Jaguars had the 30th ranked pass D according to DVOA last year but apparently have a better secondary than the Ravens. 

[Jakuvious]

Yeah, I don't feel like this one is your best list, generally. Chicago and Detroit feel very optimistically placed on this list. Even for the HMs, Jacksonville, Carolina, Houston, and even Atlanta feel very projection based over teams that have secondaries who have already produced positive results. I'd even say the Chargers are a bit high unless J.C. Jackson bounces back with a vengeance. Dude was terrible last year.

The Lions and Bears especially though, from an efficiency perspective, were arguably the two worst pass defenses in football last year. The Bears added, what? A second round rookie? Even if you love Stevenson, that's a huge transformation to expect after adding one rookie to that DB group. The Lions did add some big free agents, at least, but it's tough to expect an entirely new CB group to gel right away. But to have these two teams top 10, and have the Chiefs, the 49ers, the Bengals, the Ravens, not even in HMs? Seems very optimistic in favor of the secondaries that don't have a track record of success. Maybe if you think Bates and Bell are just that absurdly individually good, that that will tear down the Bengals and prop up the Panthers and Falcons? But like, the Ravens have three guys better than anyone on Chicago or Detroit, alongside a track record of developing and seamlessly replacing DBs. The Chiefs have depth that's simultaneously young but incredibly proven after last year. Hell, even throw the Bucs in there, with a really strong, established, starting 4, at least. And Dee Delaney at least isn't bad.

Just feels like a lot of top secondaries from teams that had visibly bad pass defenses last year, and a lot of good defenses omitted entirely.

[Ozzy]

4 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Greg Newsome plays in the slot. Emerson and Ward play outside. All 3 of those guys were excellent last year.

They never move Ward in the slot and Newsome is always there?  That is interesting, never had Newsome as some great slot guy but granted I do need to watch that D more.  Either way they need to develop higher level talents to be considered one of the elite units in the league.   And like I said, the Ward injury stuff is an issue and has been his entire career.

 

 

4 hours ago, Trojan said:

Saints are really deep. Like you mentioned Roby, I think Roby is safely CB4 after Lattimore, Paulson Adebo/Alontae Taylor after the two broke out with opportunity. CBs 5/6/7 are obvious depth but guys with upside as well. Like Troy Pride is one of CB5/6/7 and he was a mid rounder out of Notre Dame, I haven't followed his pro career but if he's the 7th best on the Saints that's a deep group. Yiadom is a former 3rd rounder, and Lonnie Johnson a former 2nd. Like you don't want those guys starting, but that's the end of roster guys. Honey Badger and Maye is a top safety group as well.

Again I am not a huge fan of Maye honestly, Honey Badger makes up for things Maye cannot do though at times.  Lonnie Johnson could be good but never really has been and Pride is ok but nothing great.  So then Taylor plays the slot or Adebo?  Taylor does help the group and was a very good pickup no question.  

[DawgX]

10 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

They never move Ward in the slot and Newsome is always there?  That is interesting, never had Newsome as some great slot guy but granted I do need to watch that D more.  Either way they need to develop higher level talents to be considered one of the elite units in the league.   And like I said, the Ward injury stuff is an issue and has been his entire career.

Supposedly Ward will play more in the slot this year. I thought Newsome was just okay playing in the slot last year - think he's better on the outside.

And Emerson was great for a rookie drafted in the third round. Then we have guys who are solid in their own right like AJ Green.

[Ozzy]

2 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

Dang the Ravens can't even make an honorable mention with the trio of Marcus Williams, Kyle Hamilton, and Marlon Humphrey? 

The Ravens were a top-3 defense last year with Roquan in the fold, but apparently their D-line/edge and secondary are all mediocre or worse. Amazing how they were able to be such a good defense with players who aren't good. 

Marcus Peters is gone, Justin Houston is gone, Calais Campbell is gone, JPP is gone and Chuck Clark is gone.

 

Their backup safeties and backup corners are more than suspect.  Yes Kyle Hamilton should be a super star safety and Humphrey already is a super star corner.  If one is talking only starting four of course they are in the group but the depth is the issue and for the entire D they have some issues.  You are totally sold on Ojabo and Oweh being these amazing edge rushers, I am not and that is a big issue potentially.  Sure they could develop into that but right now they are not, as for Bowser no one is going to build a defense just around him as a edge rusher either.  Lucky for them Roquan is on the team and they have a great DL which helps a lot as well, easily one of the best 3/4 DLs in the NFL and that helps those backers regardless.

 

Also last time I checked just because a team is good one year does not mean they are great the next.  And the change in scheme might help the offense greatly but will not help the defense.  Obviously any ball control run heavy team is going to help the defense by killing the clock and controlling time of possession.  

 

 

4 hours ago, INbengalfan said:

So KC and Cincy are left completely out of your top 17 because they have younger players?  Ummm... OK.  I get the shadow cast over us after losing Bell and Bates, but KC?  They all proved it last year, especially the second half.  CTB played extremely well for us after week 8 and starting.  What Hill lacks in experience vs Bates, he more than makes up with superior athleticism.  He and Scott will make mistakes early, but like KC last year, they pull it all together mid season and form a solid group moving towards January and beyond.

KC lost Thornhill and not sure Cook is that great of a replacement and Edwards is nothing special either.  In terms of pure corners sure but I think a lot of those guys took people by surprise and had little to no expectations last year.  Now they will, sure they could develop into that but we will see.  If one is just looking at corner depth sure but again those safeties could have some issues potentially I feel.

 

As for Cincy I said the issues I have with them and they still stand, they are not nearly as deep or as talented as they have been in years past.

 

 

1 hour ago, Jakuvious said:

Yeah, I don't feel like this one is your best list, generally. Chicago and Detroit feel very optimistically placed on this list. Even for the HMs, Jacksonville, Carolina, Houston, and even Atlanta feel very projection based over teams that have secondaries who have already produced positive results. I'd even say the Chargers are a bit high unless J.C. Jackson bounces back with a vengeance. Dude was terrible last year.

The Lions and Bears especially though, from an efficiency perspective, were arguably the two worst pass defenses in football last year. The Bears added, what? A second round rookie? Even if you love Stevenson, that's a huge transformation to expect after adding one rookie to that DB group. The Lions did add some big free agents, at least, but it's tough to expect an entirely new CB group to gel right away. But to have these two teams top 10, and have the Chiefs, the 49ers, the Bengals, the Ravens, not even in HMs? Seems very optimistic in favor of the secondaries that don't have a track record of success. Maybe if you think Bates and Bell are just that absurdly individually good, that that will tear down the Bengals and prop up the Panthers and Falcons? But like, the Ravens have three guys better than anyone on Chicago or Detroit, alongside a track record of developing and seamlessly replacing DBs. The Chiefs have depth that's simultaneously young but incredibly proven after last year. Hell, even throw the Bucs in there, with a really strong, established, starting 4, at least. And Dee Delaney at least isn't bad.

Just feels like a lot of top secondaries from teams that had visibly bad pass defenses last year, and a lot of good defenses omitted entirely.

Sorry I did not just copy paste the best pass defenses last year and put them into all the top 10 this year.  I looked only at players on the rosters and who was starting and who was behind the starters.  I did not go back and look at the best defensive stats because yes some of it is projecting and most of it is just rating groups of players compared to other groups.  

Chicago and Detroit will both be wildly improved and both are very deep.  It really is nuts the safety versatility the Lions have, if you cannot see that might want to pay a little more attention to who Brian Branch is coming into the NFL and how great Gardner-Johnson has been while in the NFL recently.  And yes the addition of Stevenson will help Chicago greatly but Johnson has to stay healthy and Gordon seems great in the slot, and those two safeties are super solid in my book all day and are very versatile.  

 

As for Tampa Bay Ryan Neal at safety is a massive question mark in my book, and Dee Delaney is nothing great, they need McCollum to become a star for that unit to be great and to get another safety and not sure they are on the roster currently.  Their depth is a pretty big issue and one of those two starting corners seems to always get hurt and losing Murphy Bunting will hurt a lot as well.  It is a major issue with depth and the Bucs to be do not have that at all.  

[Soko]

This list is heavily, heavily based on young/rookie player’s development. Not much on what these players have proven themselves to be.

[Ozzy]

9 minutes ago, Soko said:

This list is heavily, heavily based on young/rookie player’s development. Not much on what these players have proven themselves to be.

Why would that not be the case?  As if Sauce Gardner had nothing to do with the Jets being much improved on D?

 

The same can happen this year with the likes of Christian Gonzalez, Devon Witherspoon, Brian Branch etc.  

 

Sure a lot is projection and depth but anything other than that I would find a bit boring.  Why even make the list, just come out at the end of the year and say this team was rated this highly so then the unit is the best one.  Raiders by PFF were rated the 10th best OL in the NFL at the end of the season, anyone actually believe that one with the players they have?  Sorry I do not go off of overall PFF rating or statistical rankings like best pass defense etc.  I just looked at the players and depth on each roster and clearly I value depth a lot more than many do, and did take rookies into account at every spot.

[Soko]

14 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Why would that not be the case?  As if Sauce Gardner had nothing to do with the Jets being much improved on D?

He did, and he deserves to be weighed heavily into any discussion involving secondaries. 

14 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

The same can happen this year with the likes of Christian Gonzalez, Devon Witherspoon, Brian Branch etc.  

They could, but it’s not like there’s anything to really go off of with that. Not really typical for a rookie CB to be a 1st Team All-Pro, but sure, you could predict a bunch of Sauce Gardners if you want.

It makes sense that projection plays a part, but talking about guys like Stevenson or Witherspoon as if they’re above guys like Denzel Ward or Marlon Humphrey is silly.

[Ozzy]

4 minutes ago, Soko said:

He did, and he deserves to be weighed heavily into any discussion involving secondaries. 

They could, but it’s not like there’s anything to really go off of with that. Not really typical for a rookie CB to be a 1st Team All-Pro, but sure, you could predict a bunch of Sauce Gardners if you want.

It makes sense that projection plays a part, but talking about guys like Stevenson or Witherspoon as if they’re above guys like Denzel Ward or Marlon Humphrey is silly.

Witherspoon and Gonzalez could no question be both Pro Bowl players this year.  I am not going to sit and pretend that does not happen or as if there is some huge talent gap between them and the rest of the league.  Woolen made a Pro Bowl as well being a rookie and he fell to a 5th round pick, I had him as a solid 2nd rounder.  In the NFL, well college football really prepares guys for the league and a lot of them come in ready to go so instant success is not that hard to believe, especially at DB.  

[Soko]

Just now, Ozzy said:

Witherspoon and Gonzalez could no question be both Pro Bowl players this year.  I am not going to sit and pretend that does not happen or as if there is some huge talent gap between them and the rest of the league.  Woolen made a Pro Bowl as well being a rookie and he fell to a 5th round pick, I had him as a solid 2nd rounder.  In the NFL, well college football really prepares guys for the league and a lot of them come in ready to go so instant success is not that hard to believe, especially at DB.  

They could be, sure. Is that likely? Nope. 

Being a talented rookie is one thing. Being a proven, quality NFL player is another.

Witherspoon, Gonzo, Forbes, Stevenson…they haven’t done anything to prove themselves over guys like Ward, Humphrey, Awuzie, Howard, etc. You have to actually get on the field and prove that before getting that sort of nod.

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Marcus Peters is gone, Justin Houston is gone, Calais Campbell is gone, JPP is gone and Chuck Clark is gone.

Their backup safeties and backup corners are more than suspect.  Yes Kyle Hamilton should be a super star safety and Humphrey already is a super star corner.  If one is talking only starting four of course they are in the group but the depth is the issue and for the entire D they have some issues.  You are totally sold on Ojabo and Oweh being these amazing edge rushers, I am not and that is a big issue potentially.  Sure they could develop into that but right now they are not, as for Bowser no one is going to build a defense just around him as a edge rusher either.  Lucky for them Roquan is on the team and they have a great DL which helps a lot as well, easily one of the best 3/4 DLs in the NFL and that helps those backers regardless.

Also last time I checked just because a team is good one year does not mean they are great the next.  And the change in scheme might help the offense greatly but will not help the defense.  Obviously any ball control run heavy team is going to help the defense by killing the clock and controlling time of possession.  

I'm not gonna argue about the DL/edge in this thread, I think that is more valid to leave them off the top 10. But since they were a top-3 defense with Roquan, it would be pretty amazing for them to have average secondary AND D-line/edge and play at an elite level. I mean, having one great off-ball LB is not going to propel a team to the top of the league. 

Peters was poor in coverage in his year coming off an ACL, it really doesn't take much to upgrade his position. 

Chuck Clark was traded for a conditional 7th, so I don't really think you can claim he is incredibly valuable. 

My overall point is that Marcus Williams/Kyle Hamilton/Marlon Humphrey are such a great trio that it shouldn't be hard to fill in the rest. Rock Ya-SIn at CB2, Arthur Maulet at nickel are upgrades IMO. 

[Ozzy]

5 minutes ago, Soko said:

They could be, sure. Is that likely? Nope. 

Being a talented rookie is one thing. Being a proven, quality NFL player is another.

Witherspoon, Gonzo, Forbes, Stevenson…they haven’t done anything to prove themselves over guys like Ward, Humphrey, Awuzie, Howard, etc. You have to actually get on the field and prove that before getting that sort of nod.

Sure to some degree but seriously do you even watch college football? 

As if Aidan Hutchinson doing well was a big shocker?  Guess what Will Anderson Jr will do very well as a rookie, there is little doubt in my mind of that one.  Kyle Hamilton is a great safety, yeah considering how great he was in college and really should have been a top 5 pick but people were scared of his injury and his lack of 4.3 speed apparently.  

 

They are paid millions from the get go as high 1st rounders for a reason.  Sure they do not always workout but sorry I take them totally in regard to these lists and many of them will make major impacts as a rookie as they always do.  What rookie class had little to no impact at all?  Pretty sure every rookie class has impact rookies that matter in terms of the teams overall success.  Projection is not that difficult for me to envision, I guess for some others it is.  

 

If it never happen, then the Chiefs would not have late round draft picks making huge plays in the playoffs because they are not ready for the Pro game, well guess what they were ready and they mattered in the game greatly.