Ozzy Posted August 17, 2023 Author Share Posted August 17, 2023 12 minutes ago, Soko said: It is the case, they don’t have much CB depth. But neither do the Bears, meanwhile 3/4 of the Ravens’ starting secondary is superior to the Bears’ starters. Even if you want to throw out Johnson and Humphrey - Rock Ya-Sin had a better season than Gordon did. Knocking a group for having weak depth is fine, but you’re doing it arbitrarily. Groups like Chicago and Detroit don’t have top end talent at corner, and their safeties are undoubtedly weaker than Baltimore’s. Their depth is marginally better, but why are you weighing the bottom as heavily as the top? Being better at CB3 and CB4 shouldn’t be an excuse to put them ahead of a group that has better safeties, a better CB 1, and a push at CB2 (at best). Rock Ya-Sin is just an ok starter, Kyler Gordon is in his 2nd year and to me has way more upside and potential than Rock Ya-Sin has, I think Gordon could do great as a nickel for the Bears this year or they could flip and have him outside and Stevenson the nickel. I completely disagree and I would call the Lions safeties far better than Baltimore especially with regards to depth. Brian Branch could be a star at safety and is only a matter of time, dude is one hell of a tackler and if he improves his coverage he will absolutely be legit. Tracey Walker coming off injury is very smooth in coverage and active, say he is on the bench because of depth for the Lions, in no way would I take any backup safety on Baltimore over Tracey Walker healthy. Gardner-Johnson is better than Marcus Williams all day long and neither Williams or Hamilton could play corner if asked to like Gardner-Johnson can. I love Kyle Hamilton and think he is a star and should have been a top 5 pick, but the dude does get hurt and does need to show he can stay healthy and if so yeah he is amazing. But that does not include Kerby Joseph a rookie with great ball skills and if he continues to improve he is a pretty legit safety as well. Then they got an athletic freak in Ifeatu Melifonwu who is still very raw but has great size and for a 3rd string safety is pretty damn talented. Heck Brady Breeze has good deep coverage skills and that dude will be cut and Brandon Joseph was a big time playmaker on Northwestern and Notre Dame and he no way makes the roster. So yeah I feel they have better safeties all told than Baltimore and it is not even close really, because you take Kyle Hamilton out of that group and their safeties instantly become not so great. That is not even considering the corner depth they have that Baltimore does not, Lions have multiple slot options and the Ravens have one in Maulet and even that is so so if he is really good or not, maybe Stephens goes into the slot but he is their best backups safety so that is an issue also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Ozzy said: Rock Ya-Sin is just an ok starter, Kyler Gordon is in his 2nd year and to me has way more upside and potential than Rock Ya-Sin has, I think Gordon could do great as a nickel for the Bears this year or they could flip and have him outside and Stevenson the nickel. Upside, potential, could do great - sure. Rock Ya Sin was better, though. Humphrey is better than Johnson. Marcus Williams and Hamilton are better than Jackson and Brisker, by far. So that’s 4/4 or even 3/4 if you want to give Gordon a “potential” nod over Ya-Sin (but again, this is a guess). So, again, you’re weighing depth either equal to or more than you are starters - which is silly. 1 hour ago, Ozzy said: I completely disagree and I would call the Lions safeties far better than Baltimore especially with regards to depth. Brian Branch could be a star at safety and is only a matter of time, dude is one hell of a tackler and if he improves his coverage he will absolutely be legit. More guesses. Branch isn’t walking in the door better than Hamilton/Williams, whether he gets there in Year 2-3-4 or not. 1 hour ago, Ozzy said: Tracey Walker coming off injury is very smooth in coverage and active, say he is on the bench because of depth for the Lions, in no way would I take any backup safety on Baltimore over Tracey Walker healthy. Again prioritizing backups over starters? 1 hour ago, Ozzy said: Gardner-Johnson is better than Marcus Williams all day long and neither Williams or Hamilton could play corner if asked to like Gardner-Johnson can. CGJ is a good player, great in the slot. Better in the slot than Williams, for sure. A better pure safety? Definitely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted August 17, 2023 Author Share Posted August 17, 2023 9 minutes ago, Soko said: Upside, potential, could do great - sure. Rock Ya Sin was better, though. Humphrey is better than Johnson. Marcus Williams and Hamilton are better than Jackson and Brisker, by far. So that’s 4/4 or even 3/4 if you want to give Gordon a “potential” nod over Ya-Sin (but again, this is a guess). So, again, you’re weighing depth either equal to or more than you are starters - which is silly. More guesses. Branch isn’t walking in the door better than Hamilton/Williams, whether he gets there in Year 2-3-4 or not. Again prioritizing backups over starters? CGJ is a good player, great in the slot. Better in the slot than Williams, for sure. A better pure safety? Definitely not. Dude the Ravens signed Rock Ya-Sin for one year, Gardner-Johnson the same one year oddly but in the NFL today no one gets paid outside of QBs it seems. Let us just see who gets paid more next year, no way it is going to be Rock Ya-Sin. And yes I am weighing depth big time, thus the Humphrey injury, but no pretend that never happened. Marcus Williams, I do not get where you love this dude that much, he is good but has never made a Pro Bowl and has never been an All Pro. Eddie Jackson has and was a Pro Bowler twice. Granted injuries have hurt him a bit but he is just as good if not better than Marcus Williams, I would take him in coverage over Williams especially deep coverage. And Brisker had over 100 tackles as a rookie and 4 sacks, and he will be better this year than last year. I like Kyle Hamilton probably more than anyone, but just because they have him does not mean everyone around him is this great player. The Bears do have an issue with backup safety similar to the Ravens backup CB situation if not worse than that. So there is that potentially but if we just pretend injuries do not happen it would not be a problem....but it still is, Thomas does show potential as does Elijah Hicks so we will see. Brian Branch could no question have a season just as good if not better than Kyle Hamilton did as a rookie, granted Hamilton is better in the slot than Branch is. I think Branch's slot coverage is overrated and he struggled there last year. But as a in the box safety going down hill dude will make plays no question about it and beat WRs up. Gardner-Johnson is way better than Marcus Williams and it is not even close, dude had 6 INTs last year and was key to that Eagles defense doing so well. Ask the Eagles how good he is after this season and they see what it is like without him. Not to mention the fact he can legit play corner, and I say again Hamilton and Williams, no way they could play outside boundary corner like Gardner-Johnson. Who is that not an massive attribute I have no idea. Oh and Jerry Jacobs is better than any slot corner on the Ravens, so is Moseley and so is Gardner-Johnson really. So they have three slot guys potentially all better than any slot guy on the Ravens. How is that not good? Never even mentioned Will Harris who I feel could be a decent box safety but has played corner for them and been pretty productive, and that dude could get cut because the Lions are so lacking in depth? No actually the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Dude the Ravens signed Rock Ya-Sin for one year, Gardner-Johnson the same one year oddly but in the NFL today no one gets paid outside of QBs it seems. Let us just see who gets paid more next year, no way it is going to be Rock Ya-Sin. What? Why are you implying that I’m saying Rock Ya Sin is better than CGJ? I said Marcus Williams is a better pure safety, and he is. CGJ is much better as a slot corner. 5 minutes ago, Ozzy said: And yes I am weighing depth big time, thus the Humphrey injury, but no pretend that never happened. Again…what? The Ravens don’t have great depth. The Lions and Bears don’t have great starters. Starters > depth. 5 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Marcus Williams, I do not get where you love this dude that much, he is good but has never made a Pro Bowl and has never been an All Pro. Eddie Jackson has and was a Pro Bowler twice. Granted injuries have hurt him a bit but he is just as good if not better than Marcus Williams, I would take him in coverage over Williams especially deep coverage. And Brisker had over 100 tackles as a rookie and 4 sacks, and he will be better this year than last year. Eddie Jackson hasn’t been that guy in years. He signed that deal and fell off a cliff. If this were Jackson back on his rookie deal, I’d be with you. But it isn’t. 5 minutes ago, Ozzy said: I like Kyle Hamilton probably more than anyone, but just because they have him does not mean everyone around him is this great player. Correct, Hamilton existing doesn’t make Humphrey and Williams great players. What makes those two great players are that they play great football. That’s not potential, or upside - it’s what they’ve shown in real NFL games. 5 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Gardner-Johnson is way better than Marcus Williams and it is not even close, dude had 6 INTs last year and was key to that Eagles defense doing so well. Ask the Eagles how good he is after this season and they see what it is like without him. Not to mention the fact he can legit play corner, and I say again Hamilton and Williams, no way they could play outside boundary corner like Gardner-Johnson. Who is that not an massive attribute I have no idea. He’s an over aggressive tackler and doesn’t play the deep ball nearly as well as Williams does. Also despite being a very good slot corner, he gave up a career high in completion percentage and touchdowns last year. As a pure safety, Williams is better. 5 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Oh and Jerry Jacobs is better than any slot corner on the Ravens, so is Moseley and so is Gardner-Johnson really. So they have three slot guys potentially all better than any slot guy on the Ravens. How is that not good? It is good. But I’ll take CB1, CB2 as a push (at best), and safety over CB3 and CB4. I can only do this for so long with you, good sir. Some cliff notes for you: - Depth is important, but shouldn’t matter more than the top of the roster. - Potential is good and should be weighed in to the discussion, but talking about guys who haven’t played an NFL snap like they’re already better than established elite/very-good players? Nah. - Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn’t mean they think the complete opposite of whatever you’re saying. For instance: weighing starters heavier than depth players, doesn’t mean the other person is saying that depth doesn’t matter ever in any capacity. Food for thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted August 18, 2023 Author Share Posted August 18, 2023 CB: James Bradberry/ Greedy Williams SS: Sydney Brown/ Terrell Edmunds FS: Reed Blankenship/ K'Von Wallace CB: Darius Slay/ Eli Ricks Slot: Avonte Maddox/ Josiah Scott Changed the Eagles group because McPhearson is now out for the year which hurts there depth a bit. Still are corner they have so many bodies should not matter a ton. Also allows Josiah Scott to make the roster who could be a good backup solid and is a solid tackling corner. Also have Ringo, Garner and Goodrich who could all be cut or some might make the roster we will see. I did switch Sydney Brown to the starting spot, I thought that would happen and still might not but honestly the dude is better than Edmunds and should be the starter. Possibly if they like Edmunds they could move Brown over to FS and bench Blankenship. Either way Sydney Brown should be one of their starting safeties no question. Eli Ricks looked great the 1st week, not so much this second week and got caught on some moves and was not very nimble out there, made some plays but I would still give him the nod over Ringo potentially in terms of who they keep. Either way they will be cutting some players that will get picked up quickly at DB and same can be said for the DL and possibly even LB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scar988 Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 Why not change the Falcons group to the accurate listing at least? LCB - Terrell / Hughes RCB - Okudah / Flowers NCB - Alford / Phillips FS - Bates / Hawkins SS - Grant / Hellams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted August 19, 2023 Share Posted August 19, 2023 19 hours ago, scar988 said: Why not change the Falcons group to the accurate listing at least? LCB - Terrell / Hughes RCB - Okudah / Flowers NCB - Alford / Phillips FS - Bates / Hawkins SS - Grant / Hellams Terrell is definitely one of the more underrated CBs in the league. Prior to last year, I heard he was good, but hadn't seen much of him. But he did a really good job shutting down Cooper last season. Amari had a very good season for us, but he didn't do anything that game because of Terrell. He's a CB who should be getting more recognition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted August 19, 2023 Author Share Posted August 19, 2023 23 hours ago, scar988 said: Why not change the Falcons group to the accurate listing at least? LCB - Terrell / Hughes RCB - Okudah / Flowers NCB - Alford / Phillips FS - Bates / Hawkins SS - Grant / Hellams I am not sold on Hughes not being the primary slot unless an injury happens. I would take Phillips over Alford as well. I missed most of that game last night and did not catch it all, Bergeron is going to be a stud for them looks like and completely solidify it. He could play RT easily as well but looks like a hell of an athlete for a guard and Bijan looks amazing as well. The OL depth is still a question mark unless some guys step up so that is still an issue. I am going to add D'Angelo Ross to the Texans group he could be a fine backup slot player potentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleBlueDon Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 On 8/18/2023 at 1:22 PM, Ozzy said: CB: James Bradberry/ Greedy Williams SS: Sydney Brown/ Terrell Edmunds FS: Reed Blankenship/ K'Von Wallace CB: Darius Slay/ Eli Ricks Slot: Avonte Maddox/ Josiah Scott Changed the Eagles group because McPhearson is now out for the year which hurts there depth a bit. Still are corner they have so many bodies should not matter a ton. Also allows Josiah Scott to make the roster who could be a good backup solid and is a solid tackling corner. Also have Ringo, Garner and Goodrich who could all be cut or some might make the roster we will see. I did switch Sydney Brown to the starting spot, I thought that would happen and still might not but honestly the dude is better than Edmunds and should be the starter. Possibly if they like Edmunds they could move Brown over to FS and bench Blankenship. Either way Sydney Brown should be one of their starting safeties no question. Eli Ricks looked great the 1st week, not so much this second week and got caught on some moves and was not very nimble out there, made some plays but I would still give him the nod over Ringo potentially in terms of who they keep. Either way they will be cutting some players that will get picked up quickly at DB and same can be said for the DL and possibly even LB. How far did you drop the Eagles after the Zech injury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted August 20, 2023 Author Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, EagleBlueDon said: How far did you drop the Eagles after the Zech injury? That ranking was based mostly on the fact if Edmunds starter at safety for them along with Blankenship. If Sydney Brown takes over like I think it would absolutely move them up, and that would be the big change for the Eagles and move them up which I have not done yet and stayed with my original ranking. The Zech injury will hurt but Scott should be able to take his place and do very well. Maddox to me is the starting slot and they have so many options as backup boundary CB even with Greedy Williams cut, still have Jobe, Gardner, Ringo, Ricks, Goodrich along with Scott who could as well. My guess is Ringo is cut and maybe Gardner, possibly Goodrich also. But my original ranking of them was because of that safety group but if Sydney Brown is as good as he has looked they would easily jump to the top 4 and I really should make that switch because Brown is totally legit and will be starting. Edited August 20, 2023 by Ozzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleBlueDon Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Ozzy said: That ranking was based mostly on the fact if Edmunds starter at safety for them along with Blankenship. If Sydney Brown takes over like I think it would absolutely move them up, and that would be the big change for the Eagles and move them up which I have not done yet and stayed with my original ranking. The Zech injury will hurt but Scott should be able to take his place and do very well. Maddox to me is the starting slot and they have so many options as backup boundary CB even with Greedy Williams cut, still have Jobe, Gardner, Ringo, Ricks, Goodrich along with Scott who could as well. My guess is Ringo is cut and maybe Gardner, possibly Goodrich also. But my original ranking of them was because of that safety group but if Sydney Brown is as good as he has looked they would easily jump to the top 4 and I really should make that switch because Brown is totally legit and will be starting. Yeah most fans and beat writers are of the thinking that it'll be Blankenship and Brown starting, with Edmunds playing a hybrid LB role in subpackages and as the 3rd safety in big nickel. Wallace and Evans have also rotated in and had their moments. Wallace will be on the roster but idk about his playing time. Maddox is the unquestioned starter at slot CB. His backup will come down to Goodrich and Scott. Scott had to fill in for Maddox last year and was not good. I could see Goodrich taking that spot, he's had a good camp. Believe it or not, Bradberry has been repping a good bit at slot CB. The thinking there is that he can match up inside against bigger athletic TEs and WR who line up there as needed, instead of Maddox getting bullied. Maddox doesn't have the greatest track record of health, so that could give him some rest too. Bradberry intermittently sliding inside is also a testament to the coaches trusting Jobe manning the corner opposite Slay, which is a great thing. He's been a standout. Ringo will most certainly be on this team, he's had ups and downs but is obviously worth developing. Slay, Bradberry, Maddox, Jobe, Ringo and probably one of Goodrich and Gardner will be the group. Greedy was arguably the worst corner in the group throughout camp, so that's not a loss at all imo. The team chose to cut him lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted August 20, 2023 Author Share Posted August 20, 2023 6 hours ago, EagleBlueDon said: Yeah most fans and beat writers are of the thinking that it'll be Blankenship and Brown starting, with Edmunds playing a hybrid LB role in subpackages and as the 3rd safety in big nickel. Wallace and Evans have also rotated in and had their moments. Wallace will be on the roster but idk about his playing time. Maddox is the unquestioned starter at slot CB. His backup will come down to Goodrich and Scott. Scott had to fill in for Maddox last year and was not good. I could see Goodrich taking that spot, he's had a good camp. Believe it or not, Bradberry has been repping a good bit at slot CB. The thinking there is that he can match up inside against bigger athletic TEs and WR who line up there as needed, instead of Maddox getting bullied. Maddox doesn't have the greatest track record of health, so that could give him some rest too. Bradberry intermittently sliding inside is also a testament to the coaches trusting Jobe manning the corner opposite Slay, which is a great thing. He's been a standout. Ringo will most certainly be on this team, he's had ups and downs but is obviously worth developing. Slay, Bradberry, Maddox, Jobe, Ringo and probably one of Goodrich and Gardner will be the group. Greedy was arguably the worst corner in the group throughout camp, so that's not a loss at all imo. The team chose to cut him lol. I thought Greedy Williams got hurt then they cut him? As for Ringo he seems a bit slow footed, I would say Ricks at times has looked better than Ringo has. As for Scott I really like his tackling ability, either way where ever he ends up his tackling should allow him to make the roster. I assume they keep only 4 safeties and 6 corners. That means two of these guys will make it the rest will not Goodrich, Ricks, Ringo, Garner or Scott I would assume. Bradberry it seems like a waste putting him in the slot but if they feel he does the best job might as well. Not sure the likes of Jobe, Scott or Ringo/Ricks/Garner/Goodrich would be all that great as a boundary corner. Maddox I guess might be decent with it if he goes outside Bradberry in the slot and has starting experience, the rest of them do not really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scar988 Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 21 hours ago, Ozzy said: I am not sold on Hughes not being the primary slot unless an injury happens. I would take Phillips over Alford as well. I missed most of that game last night and did not catch it all, Bergeron is going to be a stud for them looks like and completely solidify it. He could play RT easily as well but looks like a hell of an athlete for a guard and Bijan looks amazing as well. The OL depth is still a question mark unless some guys step up so that is still an issue. You’re not sold on it because you don’t follow the team. The team has Alford in camp with the 1s at Nickel and Hughes is the backup to Terrell. Hughes isn’t slated to start at all. I get you want to put your view on this, but this is how things are actually shaking out in Atlanta. Alford was the nickel with the first unit in the 2nd preseason game as well. also Bergeron looked fantastic in this last game. Agreed with RT athleticism. But they love him at left guard. And I don’t think they move him. They compared him to Rodger Saffold when I talked to a couple of the scouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleBlueDon Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 45 minutes ago, Ozzy said: I thought Greedy Williams got hurt then they cut him? As for Ringo he seems a bit slow footed, I would say Ricks at times has looked better than Ringo has. As for Scott I really like his tackling ability, either way where ever he ends up his tackling should allow him to make the roster. I assume they keep only 4 safeties and 6 corners. That means two of these guys will make it the rest will not Goodrich, Ricks, Ringo, Garner or Scott I would assume. Bradberry it seems like a waste putting him in the slot but if they feel he does the best job might as well. Not sure the likes of Jobe, Scott or Ringo/Ricks/Garner/Goodrich would be all that great as a boundary corner. Maddox I guess might be decent with it if he goes outside Bradberry in the slot and has starting experience, the rest of them do not really. Nope, Greedy just didn't perform. I can't recall a single positive note from any beat writer about Greedy thus far. Yeah I'd say Ricks is at least on par with Ringo. Scott is just an inconsistent player. Feisty but don't want him on the field tbh. And I think they're just getting JB some reps in there so he has some under his belt if the time comes that he needs to match up with a guy. And Maddox was awful as an outside CB one year. No thanks to that lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scar988 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 I think you underrate Alford. He fits in as the nickel here. Some film from the first unit. https://x.com/coryraanalytics/status/1693291452812456351?s=46&t=STeeJBV4HkZDHtqdxhQhTA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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