Preseason game 2 GDT (I think it's against Denver)

[GW21]

8 minutes ago, Forge said:

right now, I think Kyle probably has the backup battle tilted slightly in Darnold's favor...but honestly, I've felt that way mostly since the minute we signed him. I think you can probably debate how much of a competition it was really was. Always felt like to me the idea was Sam as the backup but give Trey the opportunity to take the job, which I don't think he's done based on all the reporting and the two preseason games. 

I don't mind Sam as the in game backup, but if Purdy were to miss real time I'd hand that over to Trey

I read somewhere saying that Sam would probably be the number two and Trey the number three simply for the fact that the number two doesn’t get many reps in season as they are expected to try to execute the game plan and Purdy will get the bulk of the snaps while the number three will get far more reps running the scout team. 

I could see that being the case just to keep Trey working. 

[GW21]

Just now, GW21 said:

I read somewhere saying that Sam would probably be the number two and Trey the number three simply for the fact that the number two doesn’t get many reps in season as they are expected to try to execute the game plan and Purdy will get the bulk of the snaps while the number three will get far more reps running the scout team. 

I could see that being the case just to keep Trey working. 

I do agree that if Purdy goes out for an extended period of time that Lance should be the one to replace him.

[Forge]

45 minutes ago, 49erurtaza said:

Felt like TDP was surprised that defender was unblocked. Seems like it was a miss from Moore first than a miss by TDP. 

 

From my understanding TDP was suppose to be one of the better pass blockers in the 2022 draft. He's been bad overall past two games. 

I don't think he was surprised, I think he was indecisive. I think he just got caught up between the two guys and wasn't sure who to block. Now that may have been a byproduct of Moore missing his block unexpectedly. I don't want to completely discount that actually being the playcall, though if it were I would have expected something more in line with crash down right PA boot left, and it didn't look like any of the linemen were crashing right (besides Moore lol). But you have to stick it...you can't flail between the two and make it worse. 

Especially not after the vegas game as well. 

The funniest thing was JTO response later to Kyle Madson

 

[clarkfn2284]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

right now, I think Kyle probably has the backup battle tilted slightly in Darnold's favor...but honestly, I've felt that way mostly since the minute we signed him. I think you can probably debate how much of a competition it was really was. Always felt like to me the idea was Sam as the backup but give Trey the opportunity to take the job, which I don't think he's done based on all the reporting and the two preseason games. 

I don't mind Sam as the in game backup, but if Purdy were to miss real time I'd hand that over to Trey

I think Am was a hedge in case Brock or Trey came back not ready. I also think Trey is still here because Kyle wants him here. Maybe Im just wishing, but I cannot fathom Sam sticking as the 2 now that both Trey and Brock are healthy.

[J-ALL-DAY]

1 hour ago, clarkfn2284 said:

I agree with what you're saying, but Sam's experience is bad experience. 55 starts and he is the same guy. If this team asks him to play for any extended period of time they are screwed. Shanahan doesn't tailor his offense to his QB. So he is going to have to throw it into a tight window multiple times a game and he has proven cant do it. I would much rather see them take the chance with Trey as the 2 because of how he has shown improvement with game reps. You may be dead in the water either way, but Trey feels like he gives you a chance at survival.

Sam is oatmeal cookies, Trey has raisins in his.

Sam has been bad, not arguing that. I never said I would have as QB2 since we know exactly who Sam is at this point. Even when he had a good run with the Panthers last year, he ended the season with a complete dud and if that was week 14 instead of week 18, then he probably was going to put a few bad games consecutively like he has his entire career. BUT, 55 games is still 55 games and he has some arm talent and Kyle likes some things about him....Trey on the other hand is essentially a raw rookie to him. 

 

[Forge]

1 hour ago, clarkfn2284 said:

I think Am was a hedge in case Brock or Trey came back not ready. I also think Trey is still here because Kyle wants him here. Maybe Im just wishing, but I cannot fathom Sam sticking as the 2 now that both Trey and Brock are healthy.

I think that Kyle has always really, really liked Sam Darnold. We were in on trading for him when he was a Jet before the Panthers got him. Peter King thought he was going to be a niner. Then we went out and signed him first day of free agency for a contract that was comparable to what Baker Mayfield got to start for the Bucs...plus we gave him another 7 million in incentives. Then we plopped them into a legit competition knowing full well that Lance was fine and Purdy was going to be back. There didn't have to be a competition if Shanny wanted Lance to be the backup. There were other avenues that we could have gone if we weren't looking for a "better" qb, imo. 

Personally, I just don't think that Kyle likes Trey the player all that much. I don't know that he hates him or anything, but I don't think he's "drawing up plays on the plane" enamored with him.  It's not a good fit / match on style and maybe he just flat out misevaluated. Its hard to go back over the past year + and all the reports talking about how underwhelmed the niners were with lance and all the negative commentary coming out and think that it wasn't legit when you see what has subsequently happened. 

But pure guesswork on my part. They've done a really good job making it look like a true competition for the #2 spot. Maybe hoping to get some sort of trade value out of Lance, I don't know. I don't think he has any real trade value right now or I think he'd be gone already. 

[GW21]

24 minutes ago, Forge said:

I think that Kyle has always really, really liked Sam Darnold. We were in on trading for him when he was a Jet before the Panthers got him. Peter King thought he was going to be a niner. Then we went out and signed him first day of free agency for a contract that was comparable to what Baker Mayfield got to start for the Bucs...plus we gave him another 7 million in incentives. Then we plopped them into a legit competition knowing full well that Lance was fine and Purdy was going to be back. There didn't have to be a competition if Shanny wanted Lance to be the backup. There were other avenues that we could have gone if we weren't looking for a "better" qb, imo. 

Personally, I just don't think that Kyle likes Trey the player all that much. I don't know that he hates him or anything, but I don't think he's "drawing up plays on the plane" enamored with him.  It's not a good fit / match on style and maybe he just flat out misevaluated. Its hard to go back over the past year + and all the reports talking about how underwhelmed the niners were with lance and all the negative commentary coming out and think that it wasn't legit when you see what has subsequently happened. 

But pure guesswork on my part. They've done a really good job making it look like a true competition for the #2 spot. Maybe hoping to get some sort of trade value out of Lance, I don't know. I don't think he has any real trade value right now or I think he'd be gone already. 

It's funny because you've heard Lynch in the past talking about Bosa and how they were scouting Sam Darnold and Bosa absolutely wrecking that USC offense. It seems pretty obvious to me that our guys have had eyes for Sam for a long time. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

39 minutes ago, Forge said:

I think that Kyle has always really, really liked Sam Darnold. We were in on trading for him when he was a Jet before the Panthers got him. Peter King thought he was going to be a niner. Then we went out and signed him first day of free agency for a contract that was comparable to what Baker Mayfield got to start for the Bucs...plus we gave him another 7 million in incentives. Then we plopped them into a legit competition knowing full well that Lance was fine and Purdy was going to be back. There didn't have to be a competition if Shanny wanted Lance to be the backup. There were other avenues that we could have gone if we weren't looking for a "better" qb, imo. 

Personally, I just don't think that Kyle likes Trey the player all that much. I don't know that he hates him or anything, but I don't think he's "drawing up plays on the plane" enamored with him.  It's not a good fit / match on style and maybe he just flat out misevaluated. Its hard to go back over the past year + and all the reports talking about how underwhelmed the niners were with lance and all the negative commentary coming out and think that it wasn't legit when you see what has subsequently happened. 

But pure guesswork on my part. They've done a really good job making it look like a true competition for the #2 spot. Maybe hoping to get some sort of trade value out of Lance, I don't know. I don't think he has any real trade value right now or I think he'd be gone already. 

The thing is if that was true, then they would be just giving Darnold majority of QB2 reps but that's not what has been happening. At this point, teams have seen Lance on the field so making this a fake competition this late in camp makes no sense. I don't agree that this competition is over or it was always a fake one. Now, Kyle may decide to go with Darnold when it is all said and done, but for the most part the reps have been distributed close to even and both QBs have alternated on going up with the 2s first. 

[Forge]

19 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

The thing is if that was true, then they would be just giving Darnold majority of QB2 reps but that's not what has been happening. At this point, teams have seen Lance on the field so making this a fake competition this late in camp makes no sense. I don't agree that this competition is over or it was always a fake one. Now, Kyle may decide to go with Darnold when it is all said and done, but for the most part the reps have been distributed close to even and both QBs have alternated on going up with the 2s first. 

Sometimes, maybe even most time, this would be true. I'm not prepared to say that it is for sure either way. I do feel like Darnold has basically been the QB2 the entire time since signing though. Perhaps that is in part due to some media persuasion since that is basically how they have been reporting it from jump and it's just sunk its fangs into me. 

But it assumes that the only reason you would have them split reps is that they are in a true competition. I don't think that is always the case, though it very possibly is in this case. LIS, they could side on Darnold as the backup and just want to give Trey every opportunity to take the job. I don't think that's a real "competition", but it doesn't close the door on him moving up the depth chart. 

If they want to move on from Lance and remain any shred of potential trade value, you can't just stash him as QB3. So, though it's unlikely anyone has any interest in trading for him, if you want to keep that door open, I also think that you have to do this. I'm not sure what the actual odds of this are in terms of the niners appetite for trading him, but we know that they are open to it. I don't know if they "want" to, though. 

Darnold has 55 starts under his belt. I just don't think splitting reps is that big of a deal for him. If he has to go in during week 8 for Brock Purdy, I don't think anyone is really freaking out about whether or not he got enough reps in camp 3 months before. I doubt anyone even thinks about it.  If reps were that important during camp, I think you're doing a disservice to the entire team in making them split. If they are that important, you make your choice and live with it. 

Kyle just likes to play games it seems like and he does weird things. Look at how they try and obfuscate during draft season. They go above and beyond sometimes. They legit sent Lynch to Mahomes' pro day and had never scouted him before just because they wanted to muddy the waters. I'm not ruling out any sort of crazy line of thinking with Shanny when it comes to all of this. 

I would have Lance as the backup, Darnold as third, but I think it'll be Darnold as the backup (at least on a gameday basis) 

[49erurtaza]

14 minutes ago, Forge said:

I would have Lance as the backup, Darnold as third, but I think it'll be Darnold as the backup

My money is Kyle not naming the back up QB and he says it'll change week to week based on practice. Would  be crazy if they split scout team QB?

Edited August 21, 2023 by 49erurtaza

[J-ALL-DAY]

10 minutes ago, Forge said:

Sometimes, maybe even most time, this would be true. I'm not prepared to say that it is for sure either way. I do feel like Darnold has basically been the QB2 the entire time since signing though. Perhaps that is in part due to some media persuasion since that is basically how they have been reporting it from jump and it's just sunk its fangs into me. 

But it assumes that the only reason you would have them split reps is that they are in a true competition. I don't think that is always the case, though it very possibly is in this case. LIS, they could side on Darnold as the backup and just want to give Trey every opportunity to take the job. I don't think that's a real "competition", but it doesn't close the door on him moving up the depth chart. 

If they want to move on from Lance and remain any shred of potential trade value, you can't just stash him as QB3. So, though it's unlikely anyone has any interest in trading for him, if you want to keep that door open, I also think that you have to do this. I'm not sure what the actual odds of this are in terms of the niners appetite for trading him, but we know that they are open to it. I don't know if they "want" to, though. 

Darnold has 55 starts under his belt. I just don't think splitting reps is that big of a deal for him. If he has to go in during week 8 for Brock Purdy, I don't think anyone is really freaking out about whether or not he got enough reps in camp 3 months before. I doubt anyone even thinks about it.  If reps were that important during camp, I think you're doing a disservice to the entire team in making them split. If they are that important, you make your choice and live with it. 

Kyle just likes to play games it seems like and he does weird things. Look at how they try and obfuscate during draft season. They go above and beyond sometimes. They legit sent Lynch to Mahomes' pro day and had never scouted him before just because they wanted to muddy the waters. I'm not ruling out any sort of crazy line of thinking with Shanny when it comes to all of this. 

I would have Lance as the backup, Darnold as third, but I think it'll be Darnold as the backup (at least on a gameday basis) 

I just think it is completely unnecessary and something Kyle would not need to do. Again, teams are getting to watch Lance in games and if they are interested in him, they will make an offer and won't care if he's getting 2nd or 3rd team reps in practice. 

But anyways, we will find out soon enough. 

[Geek]

Was this not the most entertaining preseason game you ever seen? Fr though I had a lot of fun at the end of the day.

[Chrissooner49er]

I am hoping that Kyle is experiencing buyer's remorse with Lance--especially with the trade up. We could have just waited to see who was available at 12 (Mac?! 🤣) rather than give up 2 more 1sts. Ugh. However, in that scenario, do we still grab Purdy? What conundrum....

I think the biggest issue and difference between Lance and Purdy is simply reps and experience. Purdy was a 4 year starter. Lance barely had a year and at a lower level of competition. Lance was not ready nor was he worthy of the 1st round at the time he was picked. He needed more seasoning at the college level--a LOT more. Lots of physical potential, but too raw. 

[Ftn49]

14 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

I am hoping that Kyle is experiencing buyer's remorse with Lance--especially with the trade up. We could have just waited to see who was available at 12 (Mac?! 🤣) rather than give up 2 more 1sts. Ugh. However, in that scenario, do we still grab Purdy? What conundrum....

I think the biggest issue and difference between Lance and Purdy is simply reps and experience. Purdy was a 4 year starter. Lance barely had a year and at a lower level of competition. Lance was not ready nor was he worthy of the 1st round at the time he was picked. He needed more seasoning at the college level--a LOT more. Lots of physical potential, but too raw. 

Physical tools trumps virtually all in the NFL and especially the draft, physically Trey was worth the pick. I do agree with the not trading up part (though if you come around here every offseason you will find people who endorse that kind of move). Here is a video you might find interesting and it details how the Trey like trade has never been worth it (possibly outside of Micheal Vick) in nfl history.