Raiders trade DT Neil Farrell to Chiefs for 6th rounder

[Jeremy408]

4 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Pretty sure they thought he was a 4th rounder and just gave him away for a 6th.....classic Zeigler losing the draft and trade battle yet again, imo.  

I don't understand this at all. Bad value and at a position we're not exactly brimming with talent at. 

Either they suck at talent evaluation (hint: I think they suck at talent evaluation) or they just gave up a 4th round pick for a 6th after 1 season where the entire D was hot garbage and suck at valuation (Hint: I think they largely suck at valuation, too) or both (See: Hints)  

Makes you wonder why the Chiefs(who are better at defensive tackle than we are) wanna trade a fifth rounder for somebody we have.

[ronjon1990]

3 hours ago, OldManWillis said:

Agreed, they thought highly enough to select him with a 4th. What happened during his time here that caused the FO to be confident enough to trade him to the Chiefs of all teams. At least we got a pick back. 

 

Edit: He didn't show ish, and was out competed. They obviously don't think he'll amount to anything. 

1. The big question. It's not like we're not giving out scholarships (Bolden, Hoyer, etc). What the heck went so wrong? 

2. Maybe not. I wish I was confident in their decisions, it would make life easier lol. 

[big_palooka]

3 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

Makes you wonder why the Chiefs(who are better at defensive tackle than we are) wanna trade a fifth rounder for somebody we have.

Outside Chris Jones, who is holding out they have:

Tershawn Wharton, Derrick Nnadi, Keondre Coburn, Matt Dickerson. They are not better at DT than the Raiders. They needed bodies. 

[Jeremy408]

4 hours ago, FloydFan said:

Yeah fourth round picks sometimes don’t work. I’m just glad they’re not giving guys scholarships in this situation where as previous regimes would have held onto him for the sake of saving face. I appreciate not playing into a sunk cost fallacy. 

I think the scholarship thing you said is very true but at the same time we also drafted him. So this does go with the "how well do they evaluate talent?" question. 

[Jeremy408]

Just now, big_palooka said:

Outside Chris Jones, who is holding out they have:

Tershawn Wharton, Derrick Nnadi, Keondre Coburn, Matt Dickerson. They are not better at DT than the Raiders. They needed bodies. 

They have historically been better than the Raiders at defensive tackle for like the last 10 years. At the very least, they have demonstrated that they know how to evaluate the position better than we do. So the question that needs to be asked is why would they trade for somebody that we have that we are not starting or even playing.

[big_palooka]

< 10% of 4th round picks end up starting. < 28% of picks round 4-7 resign after their rookie contracts. 

What does landing Nesta Jade-Silver in round 7 say about how they evaluate talent? 

The anti-JMD/DZ crowd just loves to chew on anything they can spin as a negative. Mind you the 7th round hoss they found this year made Farrell expendable. 

The 4th round is a crap shoot.

 

[big_palooka]

6 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

They have historically been better than the Raiders at defensive tackle for like the last 10 years. At the very least, they have demonstrated that they know how to evaluate the position better than we do. So the question that needs to be asked is why would they trade for somebody that we have that we are not starting or even playing.

They needed depth and likely had their own evaluation coming out. Why does a team trade for any player? 

[Jeremy408]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

They needed depth and likely had their own evaluation coming out. Why does a team trade for any player? 

we're not talking about any team we're looking at why a team that is seem consistently better DTs players than we have over the trajectory of over a decade look at a player that's on a division rivals team and willing to give them a 5th round pick to do so 

(Mind everyone: this is a defensive tackle that we, the historically inferior team at DT, division rival team have had inactive for multiple games)

Edited August 30, 2023 by Jeremy408

[Geezy]

The fact they traded a 4th rounder to keep a 7th rounder means they are keeping the best players regardless of draft position, they aren’t worried about the optics, they are trying to build a quality roster. Obviously you don’t wanna blow 4ths, but I like a regime who rather be good than “right” all the time. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

20 minutes ago, Geezy said:

The fact they traded a 4th rounder to keep a 7th rounder means they are keeping the best players regardless of draft position, they aren’t worried about the optics, they are trying to build a quality roster. Obviously you don’t wanna blow 4ths, but I like a regime who rather be good than “right” all the time. 

Keeping better players according to who?  JM and DZ?  What have either of them done to prove they are decent at evaluating talent or getting good ROI on anything. 

This team has been atrocious at stopping the run for nearly two decades, while trotting a laundry list of bums to try to fill that massive void while people on here think a 7th round DT is the answer to our problems?  No chance this guys see significant snaps and if he does lock up anoter year of the 32nd ranked D in the NFL...   If history stands he will be another bum that we will cast off in a few years.  

I think it's safe to assume that if a stud 3T is staring us in the face during next years draft this 7th rounder won't stop us from taking him lol 

This D projects to be amongst the worst in football and we're wasting our time talking about a player who most likely will be out of football in three years....  Must be pre season!

Edited August 30, 2023 by Frankie2Gunz

[ronjon1990]

5 minutes ago, Geezy said:

The fact they traded a 4th rounder to keep a 7th rounder means they are keeping the best players regardless of draft position, they aren’t worried about the optics, they are trying to build a quality roster. Obviously you don’t wanna blow 4ths, but I like a regime who rather be good than “right” all the time. 

We all do. 

But this one hasn't been either. 

They came in and said "Not a rebuild" and traded a ton for a WR who won't be here 4 years from now. 

Now, we're very obviously rebuilding. Except we have 1 draft pick from 2022 that's even seen as a consensus good player.- Parham. This, despite having so many obvious holes going into the draft last year that even Trent Richardson could've found them. But....virtually no draft picks to use, except for redundant RBs and two DTs (our Achilles heel) that are already good as gone. 

Then they've not been able to capitalize on trades. Our starting QB walked for nothing. Our stud RB is practically assured to next season. Our best receiving option over the last half decade was jettisoned because our coach is an egotistical twerp. 

Then we came into this draft and took reach, luxury that wasn't an obvious need, reach, reach + luxury, depth, stopped clock moment, depth, thanks for ignoring LB til now, and we hope this guy maybe pans out. 

This regime can't be right (or, if you're a McDanielite, they can't be wrong) because they can't even decide if they're rebuilding, building, retooling, or gearing up. The moves made indicate trying to do all of them at once. 

Look, I know, Rome wasn't built in a day and not every rock was a keystone. But our cap is a mess and we're not good enough to just add 1 splash player and be competitive. At some point their picks are going to have to start sticking on the team for more than a year or we're going to be stuck in a cycle of constantly overpaying everyone else's castaways via FA- and our track record there isn't particularly solid either. Yes, Farrell was a 4th rounder- according to this same regime a year ago. Now he's barely draftable? 

It wouldn't be so bad if White were making any real impact, Butler at least wasn't waived,  Munford would step up to his potential and beat out one of our OL that should be beaten out by decent talent, and/or Brown made the team (because, let's be honest, McDaniels would carry 7 RBs if he could). But nothing. In another year, we may have 1 player from the 2022 class left, and in two years he's a FA already. That's their first draft class, basically zilch, followed up by reaches and self-inflicted "needs" in their second. 

Riddle me this, is our roster honest to God better than 3, 4 years ago? Is it honest to God better than what they inherited? Tell me a need that has truly been addressed without taking a massive reach. We can say they're keeping the best, but they're keeping the best of polished turds most other teams didn't want- let's be real, nobody was pining after Robert Spillane. So they either can't scout talent better than marginally polished turds or they're letting real talent go left and right for peanuts. Oh, we got a round pick for him? Congratulations? Guess we can field an all-Day 3 Flyer squad in a year or two the way they're racking up the late round picks everyone says are as good as garbage. 

How does any of that translate to "We have an actual plan and are clearly keeping the best talent"? Maybe we should make a point to keep track of the guys we've let go to elsewhere for next to nothing and really gauge once and for all if these amateurs have the slightest clue what they're actually doing? Lol

[ronjon1990]

31 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Keeping better players according to who? 

Why, the guys who came from a plan that hasn't worked as a plan, who previously tried said plan and failed, that came in with a plan that wasn't the plan but then decided it was the plan after making detrimental moves indicating the plan was indeed the plan but not really the plan who now have a new plan that wasn't the plan but that wasn't planned for necessitating a new plan that wasn't the plan but also was the plan if the plan wasn't originally the plan, of course. 

You know, those process guys. 

 

[raidr4life]

3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

1. The big question. It's not like we're not giving out scholarships (Bolden, Hoyer, etc). What the heck went so wrong? 

2. Maybe not. I wish I was confident in their decisions, it would make life easier lol. 

Silvera went wrong he looked light years ahead of Ferrell maybe it will motivate him even more, but they went with a veteran NT and kept the one who showed more.

[Jeremy408]

53 minutes ago, Geezy said:

The fact they traded a 4th rounder to keep a 7th rounder means they are keeping the best players regardless of draft position, they aren’t worried about the optics, they are trying to build a quality roster. Obviously you don’t wanna blow 4ths, but I like a regime who rather be good than “right” all the time. 

Thats real. To me it just goes back to why do better teams want players that we don't.

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 minute ago, ronjon1990 said:

Why, the guys who came from a plan that hasn't worked as a plan, who previously tried said plan and failed, that came in with a plan that wasn't the plan but then decided it was the plan after making detrimental moves indicating the plan was indeed the plan but not really the plan who now have a new plan that wasn't the plan but that wasn't planned for necessitating a new plan that wasn't the plan but also was the plan if the plan wasn't originally the plan, of course. 

You know, those process guys. 

 

It seems like JM/DZ have multiple plans yet no plan.  Who knows what the plan is?  You're guess is as good as mine.  

What I do know is one can argue this team is not better than the one they inherited.  They have two full off seasons to build and improve their roster and this long list of castoffs and below average players is the best they could come up with?  45M in cap space and the talent we acquired is clearly a group of below average players.  It's quite pathetic to have that much cap space and to come out of FA with nearly nothing noteworthy.

This D once again projects to be amongst the worst in football... A season with a below average QB, who is made of glass, having to play catchup nearly every game won't end well.