Raiders trade DT Neil Farrell to Chiefs for 6th rounder

[true2form]

2 hours ago, Roninho said:

Damn people... That's a lot of our FO can't draft/develop/trade talk for a discussion on a 4th rounder traded for peanuts.

Leaguewide the % of DL drafted in the 4th round who become a consistent starter was 37% between 2005 and 2015. This kid not working out for us isnt anything special leaguewide.

Completely missing the point, as most are.

It's not about this one move.  You're right, the one move by itself isn't a big deal.  At least we got a pick back.

However, you slap 5-10 of these moves together and then you start to see a pattern.  And then you start to realize you have a problem.   

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, true2form said:

Completely missing the point, as most are.

It's not about this one move.  You're right, the one move by itself isn't a big deal.  At least we got a pick back.

However, you slap 5-10 of these moves together and then you start to see a pattern.  And then you start to realize you have a problem.   

Not only that, but.....a 37% success rate on 4th round DL over a decade span? 

That's actually pretty damning of the scouting. 37% is pretty dang high considering how many guys we're talking about. It's not like there's a 50% or better hit rate for any position in any round  over a decade span (and if there is, aside from maybe late round punters and kickers, that's genuinely astonishing). 

[big_palooka]

Year 1 DZ and company inherited the scouting department. You put a lot of trust in guys you've not worked with previously. You spend years scouting for your former team, then have to rely on the guys who've been scouting for your new team.

Hence why they turned over the entire scouting department after the 2022 draft. Those legacy Raider scouts did produce many results over the years for better or worse. 2023's class will be one to judge as a bottom up success/failure of their talent evaluation as whole. 

 

[jimkelly02]

9 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Year 1 DZ and company inherited the scouting department. You put a lot of trust in guys you've not worked with previously. You spend years scouting for your former team, then have to rely on the guys who've been scouting for your new team.

Hence why they turned over the entire scouting department after the 2022 draft. Those legacy Raider scouts did produce many results over the years for better or worse. 2023's class will be one to judge as a bottom up success/failure of their talent evaluation as whole. 

So it’s Calvin Branch’s fault and not Zeigler?  
But Gruden and Mayock are to blame even though they inherited most of the same scouts, right?

You always have excuses for the guys you support.  The GM and HC made the draft selection of Farrell (and Matthew Butler) and they both were poor picks by year 2.  You can’t just blame lower tier guys for everything.  
why is it always someone else’s fault?  I like Zeigler but he did really really bad in his first year as GM.  To the point he should be fired if this draft class and FA class doesn’t see production and upside THIS year.

 

[jimkelly02]

15 hours ago, true2form said:

Completely missing the point, as most are.

It's not about this one move.  You're right, the one move by itself isn't a big deal.  At least we got a pick back.

However, you slap 5-10 of these moves together and then you start to see a pattern.  And then you start to realize you have a problem.   

That’s my exact sentiment. 

[big_palooka]

4 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

So it’s Calvin Branch’s fault and not Zeigler?  
But Gruden and Mayock are to blame even though they inherited most of the same scouts, right?

You always have excuses for the guys you support.  The GM and HC made the draft selection of Farrell (and Matthew Butler) and they both were poor picks by year 2.  You can’t just blame lower tier guys for everything.  
why is it always someone else’s fault?  I like Zeigler but he did really really bad in his first year as GM.  To the point he should be fired if this draft class and FA class doesn’t see production and upside THIS year.

 

You're putting words in my mouth. Gruden/Mayock blew 18 picks in the top 3 rounds where the draft is judged. Maybe they should have fired the scounts?

Complaining over day 3 picks is ridiculous. Looks how many day 3 picks were cut this cycle alone. They took shots on guys at a need position. Did it again this year and this years guys were better. Stands to reason as the Dline class as a whole was better this draft.

If you're missing on top 3 picks, it's a problem.

I don't think Zeigler did bad year 1. It was a mixed bag. There was a lot of good and some bad. 

[Devilshark69]

Munford and parham were good picks, Farrell and butler were meh, I had hopes for Farrell, wasn’t totally displeased with Zeus, but we’ll have to see. Brown was unessessary. Period, and NOBODY can argue that one. 50/50 draft hopefully. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

5 hours ago, big_palooka said:

You're putting words in my mouth. Gruden/Mayock blew 18 picks in the top 3 rounds where the draft is judged. Maybe they should have fired the scounts?

Complaining over day 3 picks is ridiculous. Looks how many day 3 picks were cut this cycle alone. They took shots on guys at a need position. Did it again this year and this years guys were better. Stands to reason as the Dline class as a whole was better this draft.

If you're missing on top 3 picks, it's a problem.

I don't think Zeigler did bad year 1. It was a mixed bag. There was a lot of good and some bad. 

Good scouts find gems in any round. 

[bucksavage1]

A lot of talk and complaining for a 4th round DT who was replaced by this years 7th rounder and an additional 6th in 2024

 

 

[true2form]

1 hour ago, bucksavage1 said:

A lot of talk and complaining for a 4th round DT who was replaced by this years 7th rounder and an additional 6th in 2024

 

 

A lot of looking the other way, every time we lose value on move after move.

[big_palooka]

19 minutes ago, true2form said:

A lot of looking the other way, every time we lose value on move after move.

Meh, getting something for a player who didn't earn a roster spot is hardly noteworthy. 

If it was a top 100 pick, that's a problem. Day 3 picks, it's meaningless unless you're looking to simply pick apart your GM. Several day 3 picks were outright released from teams, nobody blinks an eye. The Raiders trade a guy they were likely to cut and everyone has a problem with it. 

I think DZ deserves some benefit of the doubt as well. He netted picks for Mullens, Edwards, Gillespie for example. 

[drfrey13]

I am not a JMD or Zeigler fan but this should not even count towards a pattern.  I am not saying they should not be held accountable for their mistakes either.  This is the type of bad pick that happens a lot.  The best analogy I can think of is a teacher grading a test.  You can tell when somebody did not study and when they just made a small mistake that led to a wrong answer.  There is no denying it was a bad pick but What else did they do?  Is anyone judging them for other picks?  I judge them for other things but last years draft is not one of them.  Now the Gruden drafting was absolutely horrible.  I do not think there is a single poster in here that would, not could, have done better.  

Edited September 1, 2023 by drfrey13

[Geezy]

focusing on losing value with Farell but ignoring we got a pick back and upgraded the position in the 7th round. Im just glad were not giving scholarships to higher drafted players.

[raidr4life]

1 hour ago, Geezy said:

focusing on losing value with Farell but ignoring we got a pick back and upgraded the position in the 7th round. Im just glad were not giving scholarships to higher drafted players.

They don't watch preseason or pay attention to training camp to know how guys are actually doing.

[NCOUGHMAN]

5 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I am not a JMD or Zeigler fan but this should not even count towards a pattern.  I am not saying they should not be held accountable for their mistakes either.  This is the type of bad pick that happens a lot.  The best analogy I can think of is a teacher grading a test.  You can tell when somebody did not study and when they just made a small mistake that led to a wrong answer.  There is no denying it was a bad pick but What else did they do?  Is anyone judging them for other picks?  I judge them for other things but last years draft is not one of them.  Now the Gruden drafting was absolutely horrible.  I do not think there is a single poster in here that would, not could, have done better.  

This draft class will be telling tho