Justin Fields

[Sugashane]

54 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Hello Bears fans! Just went down a Justin Fields rabbithole on twitter and wanted to stop by here to get your thoughts. Ill preface this with also saying Im a OSU fan who has been following Fields career pretty closely in the NFL hoping he does well and a lot of this is going to sound like word vomit, apologies.

• What is the general consensus on Fields in Bears land?
• Do you want the team to actually build around him and draft presumably MHJ? or have you seen enough and want to move on?
• Do you think coaching and lack of commitment from the staff to building a system around his strengths has killed his progression?
• IF the Bears were to trade him, what do you think his value is?
• If they do trade him, how do you think it will received in the lockeroom?

I have heard some things on social media in regards to how the Bears will handle this and wondering if you guys have heard the same or different. A few reputable sources have basically said Poles is out on Fields, which is why they have never committed to building the system around him. 

Its weird because I feel from everything that Ive seen, the players on the team love him. IDK if its his leadership, playstyle, talent, ect but everytime I see something where a Bears player says something related to Fields its glowing reviews. The problem is the coaching staff/GM dont seem to be nearly as bought in. Same with fans online, the majority of Bears fans that Ive read comments from seem like they really want to stick with him as well.

I wonder what the hangup is with the FO.

Anyways, just some random thoughts. 

 

Good morning! I'll throw my 2 cents out there. 

-There is no concensus. You'll find a huge divide of people. Many want to keep Fields because he has amazing stretches and has incredible athleticism. He's been a true pro even when Chicago drafted him to be put in a ridiculous situation (lame duck HC, thnm a tank). Some feel he is damaged and will never reach his potential in large part due to the Bears screwing up the situation, so many want to get a new QB and staff. Many say Williams for the obvious talent and potential, some May because they want a guy who can run a system whereas Fields and Williams hold the ball for those wow plays. Some are jaded and just waiting to see if there is a massive haul to be had for 1.1.

- If leery of hoping for Fields being a top 10 QB. So to me that would mean he isn't worth the megadeal if he isn't. I want Harbaugh and Williams personally, but its not my money so it's MUCH easier for me to say that than Warren and Poles. I will say Eberflus has been better than I expected, so he may be entrenched for at least one more season. If so then I want to keep Fields and trade 1.1 for a haul if possible. I loathe drafting a QB them hiring a coach the next year. Wastes a year of development and the rookie deal.

-100%  Nagy had no intention of him starting and it took Getsy WAY too Ling to switch the system form what fits Rodgers to Fields. Then he walked away from the system and tried to force Fields to be a pocket passer. He's not, I dont believe he ever will be. He is an elite athlete who plays QB and has a knack for making some wow throws and following them up with a crap throw to the flat. Use his legs, teach him to get down unless the situation calls for him to try and get that extra 2-3 yards and make the safe plays more often. That isn't what is consistently done here after 3 years of working with him. Bears ****ed up, and Fields is the victim of that.

-I could see a conditional 2nd with a 3rd as the base. Going into the 4th year of his deal hurts the trade value, but a team could absolutely get an immediate upgrade with a competent offensive mind.

- Fields is a leader and seems to be entrenched as the QB in the players' minds. They see how hard he works and how he has carried the offense, I think they know Getsy is an idiot, and Fields has been a total professional while it was obvious that he got shafted.

- Poles plays things close to the chest. If anyone says they "know" what will happen then they're full of it imo. He pulled off the trade with CAR and idk if there was any clues to that being a potential happening. It's a sit and wait thing for everyone.

- Players care a lot about the person they play with.  But wins ultimately will be what keeps Poles in his job.  Fields  has been really on and off and is not as bad as his record shows. But he leaves a LOT of yards on the field too. Ignoring defensive incompetence for all but the last half of this season, Fields offensively has put up an average of under 21ppg. Will that jump much with a few better pieces? If he is making $40+ mil can you afford the talent he may need to succeed? There's a lot of questions, I dont want to see the Bears get in a Daniel Jones situation so it can't be rushed. There's legitimate claims from both sides.

 

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said:

Hello Bears fans! Just went down a Justin Fields rabbithole on twitter and wanted to stop by here to get your thoughts. Ill preface this with also saying Im a OSU fan who has been following Fields career pretty closely in the NFL hoping he does well and a lot of this is going to sound like word vomit, apologies.

• What is the general consensus on Fields in Bears land?

Fairly split between keep him and trade #1 or #2 overall for a haul or draft Caleb Williams or Drake Maye and trade Fields.   

On pro Justin side some see his potential and think it is on cusp of being revealed if we are patient a little longer.  Others argue he is great now, but teammates and play calling are letting him down.   

On con Justin side people argue we have had enough evidence and we know who he likely is now.  His early flaws are still his flaws.  He strengths are still his strengths - but the overall product is inadequate.  

Others declared him a savior early and don't like to be wrong or declared him a bust early and don't want to wrong.   Some, a minority, are pro or con for other superficial reasons.   

It is difficult to be on con side because Justin is extremely likeable as a person - people want him to succeed (me included).

• Do you want the team to actually build around him and draft presumably MHJ? or have you seen enough and want to move on?

Me personally I take the best college QB which I hear is the USC QB.   I think Justin is flawed as an NFL QB.  He may recover and be great, but I am in position to take top college QB and Justin is still flawed after 3 years.  I now have to decide to keep him, pay him or trade him.  I am going with a new guy and trading him.

• Do you think coaching and lack of commitment from the staff to building a system around his strengths has killed his progression?

I think coaching and org. decisions hurt his development profoundly.  I have been a vocal critic since draft day of Bears decisions regarding Fields.   I don't think it was lack of commitment to Justin however.  Just bad moves or tough or self interested decisions in moment.  

• IF the Bears were to trade him, what do you think his value is?

It probably fluctuates quite a bit.  Right now, honestly not every much.  Maybe a 3rd because he does have great potential still and is young.  If he closes season with some big games maybe a 2nd or even a 1st.  

• If they do trade him, how do you think it will received in the lockeroom?

Most won't like it.  He is well liked.  But they will get over it.  

I have heard some things on social media in regards to how the Bears will handle this and wondering if you guys have heard the same or different. A few reputable sources have basically said Poles is out on Fields, which is why they have never committed to building the system around him. 

All pure speculation. 

Its weird because I feel from everything that Ive seen, the players on the team love him. IDK if its his leadership, playstyle, talent, ect but everytime I see something where a Bears player says something related to Fields its glowing reviews. The problem is the coaching staff/GM dont seem to be nearly as bought in. Same with fans online, the majority of Bears fans that Ive read comments from seem like they really want to stick with him as well.

I wonder what the hangup is with the FO.

Anyways, just some random thoughts. 

 

[Madmike90]

2 hours ago, Docknstein11 said:

Not a fan of this graphic. Lamar 10 pts higher in rating is no small number. Total yards covers for the fact that Justin still struggles throwing the football. No way you could watch Lamar make the 49ers defense his b**** and think Justin is even close to him as a passer right now. 

I think you have missed the point a little here man…no one is saying Fields is as good as Lamar has been over the past 17 games but these guys are closer statistically than you would expect them to be considering one is the favourite to win the MVP & one is being questioned as our starter…the fact Fields is even close in this scheme and with his lack of weapons around him says that with more help he could be putting up those sort of Lamar numbers…give Fields an OC like Monken who has taken the best parts of Roman’s scheme and then added his own stuff from Georgia and Fields would be putting up far better numbers than he is right now.

[Bigbear72]

"Its been known for a while that Russell Wilson is what’s limiting the DEN pass O.   The OL has issues but Russ can’t do 3 things you need in a Payton O: 

1.  Throw slants   
 

2.  Throw to the middle of the field 

 

3.  Throw to a spot (he has to see the guy get open)  

 

Add in that he’s lost the ability to make guys miss (he can still run through open holes and get yards that way), it’s why Payton’s rightfully seen enough. 

 

This was mentioned by every Bronco fan in the “Does Russell Wilson deserve an apology” thread (NO).    This isn’t a surprise to local hardcore fans.   It pretty much kills any trade market (we could have saved 22M from the 68M dead cap hit - it will likely be split into 2024-25 with a post-June 1 designation ).    We’re just relieved he won’t be on the roster next year and his 2025 37M salary won’t guarantee as a result."   

-------------------------------------

The above is from a broncos fan in the thread about the possibility of Denver sitting Russ for the next 2 games. I found it interesting because these a some of the complaints that we have about JF1. This is not an argument for or against Fields necessarily, however, it does highlight that coaching and scheme do really matter. Prior to being traded to Denver I don't believe anyone would have blinked at the idea of Russ being a HOFer. Now, outside of the scheme he played for in Seattle, he just does not look the same.  Whether we keep Fields or launch him into the sun is irrelevant. We need a coaching staff that knows how to craft an offense that will suit whoever QBs strengths are instead of trying to fit the QB into some predetermined magical system.  

[Madmike90]

3 minutes ago, Bigbear72 said:

"Its been known for a while that Russell Wilson is what’s limiting the DEN pass O.   The OL has issues but Russ can’t do 3 things you need in a Payton O: 

1.  Throw slants   
 

2.  Throw to the middle of the field 

 

3.  Throw to a spot (he has to see the guy get open)  

 

Add in that he’s lost the ability to make guys miss (he can still run through open holes and get yards that way), it’s why Payton’s rightfully seen enough. 

 

This was mentioned by every Bronco fan in the “Does Russell Wilson deserve an apology” thread (NO).    This isn’t a surprise to local hardcore fans.   It pretty much kills any trade market (we could have saved 22M from the 68M dead cap hit - it will likely be split into 2024-25 with a post-June 1 designation ).    We’re just relieved he won’t be on the roster next year and his 2025 37M salary won’t guarantee as a result."   

-------------------------------------

The above is from a broncos fan in the thread about the possibility of Denver sitting Russ for the next 2 games. I found it interesting because these a some of the complaints that we have about JF1. This is not an argument for or against Fields necessarily, however, it does highlight that coaching and scheme do really matter. Prior to being traded to Denver I don't believe anyone would have blinked at the idea of Russ being a HOFer. Now, outside of the scheme he played for in Seattle, he just does not look the same.  Whether we keep Fields or launch him into the sun is irrelevant. We need a coaching staff that knows how to craft an offense that will suit whoever QBs strengths are instead of trying to fit the QB into some predetermined magical system.  

Always funny to me how quickly this time of year turns so many teams from “no one needs a QB” to plenty of teams crying out for one…

Wilson benched in Denver

Howell benched in Washington

Raiders badly needing a QB and might role with Pierce as HC

Pats are obviously desperate for one

Steelers having more success with Rudolph as a 3rd string QB than anyone else and having to answer rumours Tomlin might be traded (he won’t)…

Atlanta don’t have a QB

Minnesota might not have a QB

If we are suppose to be worried about Fields how are Jacksonville feeling right now?

Teams will always need QBs.

[JibjeResearch]

6 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Always funny to me how quickly this time of year turns so many teams from “no one needs a QB” to plenty of teams crying out for one…

Wilson benched in Denver

Howell benched in Washington

Raiders badly needing a QB and might role with Pierce as HC

Pats are obviously desperate for one

Steelers having more success with Rudolph as a 3rd string QB than anyone else and having to answer rumours Tomlin might be traded (he won’t)…

Atlanta don’t have a QB

Minnesota might not have a QB

If we are suppose to be worried about Fields how are Jacksonville feeling right now?

Teams will always need QBs.

I like JF1 more than the coaching Staffs, He has shown enough improvement for me.  It would be nice if he ends the year with a 2:1 TD/INT ratio.

More importantly, the 1stOverall will get the Bears a boat load of talents...lolz😂  and I think the Bears will secure that this Sunday ahahahaha😂😁

[Madmike90]

2 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Hello Bears fans! Just went down a Justin Fields rabbithole on twitter and wanted to stop by here to get your thoughts. Ill preface this with also saying Im a OSU fan who has been following Fields career pretty closely in the NFL hoping he does well and a lot of this is going to sound like word vomit, apologies.

• What is the general consensus on Fields in Bears land?
• Do you want the team to actually build around him and draft presumably MHJ? or have you seen enough and want to move on?
• Do you think coaching and lack of commitment from the staff to building a system around his strengths has killed his progression?
• IF the Bears were to trade him, what do you think his value is?
• If they do trade him, how do you think it will received in the lockeroom?

I have heard some things on social media in regards to how the Bears will handle this and wondering if you guys have heard the same or different. A few reputable sources have basically said Poles is out on Fields, which is why they have never committed to building the system around him. 

Its weird because I feel from everything that Ive seen, the players on the team love him. IDK if its his leadership, playstyle, talent, ect but everytime I see something where a Bears player says something related to Fields its glowing reviews. The problem is the coaching staff/GM dont seem to be nearly as bought in. Same with fans online, the majority of Bears fans that Ive read comments from seem like they really want to stick with him as well.

I wonder what the hangup is with the FO.

Anyways, just some random thoughts. 

 

I think most of the replies so far have summed it up pretty well...

• No consensus and even most people who support keeping Fields can see the argument from both sides.
• Building around "the QB" is going to be essential for this team over the offseason since after Moore & Kmet we have nothing of note in teams of weapons.
• Getsy has been a major let down who has tried to copy & paste what Rodgers did in GB rather than try to build a scheme around Fields and his strengths.

The next two points are where I differ a little...

• I think we can get more for Fields than just a 2nd or 3rd round pick...I see us getting an upgrade on the Sam Darnold trade which was a 2nd & 4th round pick in the following year plus a 6th in that year...for me we could probably turn that around and maybe get a 2nd & 4th this year then another pick in 2025 like a 4th given Fields is clearly more talented than Darnold was.

 

• I think the locker room would be one of the biggest issues with trading Fields...I think replacing him as a "passer" is the easiest thing about replacing him...as just an on-time rhythm passer we can find that production...but what would be a major struggle to replace would be his toughness, calmness, professionalism & leadership...what would be completely impossible to replace would be his athleticism & raw playmaking ability...when you have some of the very best players in your locker room consistently and passionately defending him and wanting him to return then that has to be listened too...Caleb is a better passer no doubt...but as a leader? Not even close IMO...Maye is a better passer...but as a playmaker can he be as good? Not even close IMO...if you can bring a proper OC in here who appreciates the skill set and wants to build around what he does well he can be as good as anyone if we give him the same level of talent around him as others have...Hurts is the obvious comparison...I say it all the time...Fields is a better passer than Hurts...Purdy by ever number is a top 10 QB...but Fields is twice the QB Purdy is...no QB can do it all himself and the fact Fields has been tough enough to even get this far is fairly miraculous.  

[Madmike90]

On the back of  @AkronsWitness question about consensus I thought it would be interesting to pose this questions with a view of working this from top to bottom...

Is there anyone who doesn't have at least a comfort level if not confidence in Ryan Poles to make the right decision regardless of which way this thing goes? 

[AZBearsFan]

13 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

On the back of  @AkronsWitness question about consensus I thought it would be interesting to pose this questions with a view of working this from top to bottom...

Is there anyone who doesn't have at least a comfort level if not confidence in Ryan Poles to make the right decision regardless of which way this thing goes? 

Poles won a lot of latitude from me this year. He hasn’t been without misses, but his hits this year have far outweighed the negatives. At minimum he’s earned the right to make the QB decision. Whether that means trading away an incredibly popular player amongst the fandom and in the locker room in favor of a highly touted QB prospect or trading away the right to take the prospect for the resources to potentially build a juggernaut around Fields, it’s going to define his tenure here. No matter what his choice is, his choice is going to be polarizing, and the QB he goes with will be under even more intense scrutiny for it. 

[Madmike90]

4 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

Poles won a lot of latitude from me this year. He hasn’t been without misses, but his hits this year have far outweighed the negatives. At minimum he’s earned the right to make the QB decision. Whether that means trading away an incredibly popular player amongst the fandom and in the locker room in favor of a highly touted QB prospect or trading away the right to take the prospect for the resources to potentially build a juggernaut around Fields, it’s going to define his tenure here. No matter what his choice is, his choice is going to be polarizing, and the QB he goes with will be under even more intense scrutiny for it. 

I am pretty much so here as well...Poles has done such a great job of turning this franchise around that as much as we can all have a personal preference I have such a high trust level in him that I think he will make the right decision for this franchise regardless of what it is.

[beardown3231]

4 hours ago, G08 said:

You must be a blast at parties 😆

Just because I want to watch your head explode:

Ah, the ol' "you must be a blast at parties" line when you have nothing else. Guys failed him. I bet nobody ever dropped a pass for the great QB's. See the last tweet from FIELDSISHIM (no bias there!): fair share of bad games, bad reads, bad throws. He has had 3 offseasons and is still not seeing open receivers and missing receivers. It's not working

I literally can look up the quotes in the thread when the Bears acquired Moore. @Madmike90 talked about how Kmet is coming on, Moore is a stud, and Mooney is a good piece. Now? THEY NEED MORE! MOONEY SUCKS! That's called moving the goal posts which is always fun at parties

Nobody is being snarky on message boards until you last night into this morning. Nothing was "snarky" until I posted Fields' career stats and then you got offended because he's not good and that upsets you

Edited December 27, 2023 by beardown3231

[G08]

3 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Ah, the ol' "you must be a blast at parties" line when you have nothing else. Guys failed him. I bet nobody ever dropped a pass for the great QB's. See the last tweet from FIELDSISHIM (no bias there!): fair share of bad games, bad reads, bad throws. He has had 3 offseasons and is still not seeing open receivers and missing receivers. It's not working

I literally can look up the quotes in the thread when the Bears acquired Moore. @Madmike90 talked about how Kmet is coming on, Moore is a stud, and Mooney is a good piece. Now? THEY NEED MORE! MOONEY SUCKS! That's called moving the goal posts which is always fun at parties

Nobody is being snarky on message boards until you last night into this morning. Nothing was "snarky" until I posted Fields' career stats and then you got offended because he's not good and that upsets you

Man, self-awareness is not a strength of yours huh?

[G08]

44 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

On the back of  @AkronsWitness question about consensus I thought it would be interesting to pose this questions with a view of working this from top to bottom...

Is there anyone who doesn't have at least a comfort level if not confidence in Ryan Poles to make the right decision regardless of which way this thing goes? 

When I find this Justin Fields vs. Caleb Williams conversation driving me crazy, I do actually settle on the fact that Ryan Poles is making the final decision and I can't really complain about what he has done since being here.

He swung and missed on Chase Claypool, but he recognized the mistake and traded him away. Poles also did not allow him to become gun shy. He didn't hesitate to trade a 2nd for Montez Sweat, and THAT move is paying dividends.

 

I do not envy him, but I do believe he has done the calculus and if the decision is to draft Caleb Williams and trade Justin Fileds, I'll trust that he viewed that as better for the franchise than trading out of #1 for a treasure trove of picks and/or picks and player(s).

[G08]

My personal take? If you want a system QB / rhythm passer to get you 250-300 yards per game, Brian Hoyer is still out there. I don't think those guys win you championships UNLESS you have an elite play-caller, weapons and defense (see: Purdy, Brock).

What we need to be doing is what Greg Roman did with Lamar Jackson, or what Arthur Smith did with Ryan Tannehill in Tennessee.

[Madmike90]

1 minute ago, G08 said:

My personal take? If you want a system QB / rhythm passer to get you 250-300 yards per game, Brian Hoyer is still out there. I don't think those guys win you championships UNLESS you have an elite play-caller, weapons and defense (see: Purdy, Brock).

What we need to be doing is what Greg Roman did with Lamar Jackson, or what Arthur Smith did with Ryan Tannehill in Tennessee.

Still not sold he is safe in Atlanta you know.