MaddHatter Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 20 minutes ago, WizardHawk said: Dallas loves Wisconsin centers too. Seems like a perfect match. I've seen him mocked in the late 6th to mid 7th rounds including to Dallas at the end of the 7th pre-Combine and now I'm seeing him mocked to the 3rd round... really have no clue how people make these drastic jumps off some exercises in shorts and a t-shirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) I would be OK with Guyton because: 2021 he played in 7 games and a total of 25 snaps. He conceded just one QB hurry, no QB hits, and no sacks while playing the majority of his snaps at left tackle, and the rest at left guard. https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Tyler-Guyton-OT-TCU Edited March 4 by TVScout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 If this doesn't make him a Top 5 pick, it's a damn shame. I'm not ready to put him ahead of MHJR but I think he's definitely neck and neck with him. That drive and competitiveness when the other guys were happy to rest on their resume and he was still out there trying to perfect his craft, as insignificant as it might be, tells me he's the kind of guy that'll be there perfecting his craft on the things that truly matter long after the other guys have gone home and are headed out to party. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardHawk Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 7 minutes ago, MaddHatter said: If this doesn't make him a Top 5 pick, it's a damn shame. I'm not ready to put him ahead of MHJR but I think he's definitely neck and neck with him. That drive and competitiveness when the other guys were happy to rest on their resume and he was still out there trying to perfect his craft, as insignificant as it might be, tells me he's the kind of guy that'll be there perfecting his craft on the things that truly matter long after the other guys have gone home and are headed out to party. NFL teams are going to love this no two ways about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 On 3/3/2024 at 12:24 PM, plan9misfit said: If we had a more intelligent front office that was able to forecast events beyond the tip of its nose, we could’ve had the same thing. Instead, we refuse to trade players when we should and never look to future drafts in the attempt to estimate our future needs or who will be in those drafts. Philly does an amazing job at that. Howie Roseman may be the best in the business at doing both of those things. Looking at our division rivals and Green Bay who are the only teams with an extra 2nd round pick, it's interesting how they got there. The Giants traded Leonard Williams to the Seahawks towards the deadline as they were clearly no longer contenders and he was in the final year of his contract. The Redskins likewise were in selloff mode and got a 2nd round pick from the Bears for Montez Sweat who signed a 4yr $100m extension a few days later. The Eagles got their 2nd round pick when they gave up the 16th overall pick in 2022 to get a 3rd round pick, a 2023 first and 2024 second. The Packers got a 2nd round pick from the Jets when they traded Aaron Rodgers away and let Jordan Love take over. In all of those scenarios, I think if the Cowboys had pulled that same trade, this forum would have erupted. If we traded the 24th overall pick this year for a 3rd round pick, 2025 1st and 2026 2nd, I think many people would be pissed. The Eagles got away with it b/c it was their 2nd 1st round pick that year so they still had some talent come in while also adding future picks. If the Cowboys traded off DLaw for a 2nd round pick, or Tyler Smith, people would be up in arms rioting in Frisco. And if the Cowboys traded Dak Prescott for a second round pick, we'd be wearing brown bags of shame for the next decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStarStillShines Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 (edited) I’m too lazy to go through this entire thread, but like some folks I’m not high on McCarthy. Maybe I’m in the minority, but he screams Brady Quinn to me - slightly-above average tools with good intangibles but not necessarily the high IQ, big arm, and decisive player a championship team needs behind center. Jimmy Garoppolo is another comparison. While this is a taboo subject, I cannot help but think race plays a role in scouts’ evaluations on McCarthy. Sure he’s younger than Penix, Jr. and Nix, but his track record is less proven, he doesn’t possess the same physical skills, and he seems to be more of a manager than a driver. Obviously, the scheme in Michigan had a lot to do with this (but maybe Harbaugh and the UM staff knew to hide McCarthy’s deficiencies), but one would expect more. If another QB prospect performed as poorly as McCarthy did at the combine in terms of throwing the football, his stock would plummet. Yet he’s still projected to be a top-12 pick. Then there are questions - or lack of - on whether he can read defences and make the right reads. He was sheltered at Michigan and rarely asked to make difficult throws. He won’t have the same luxury in the NFL. This lack of questioning boggles my mind because they were often raised when assessing the likes of Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, and other athletic QBs. Even some evaluations questioned whether C.J. Stroud would be able to adjust to reading complex defences. Something just doesn’t jive. Or maybe scouts don’t want to look bad and again overlook the next Brock Purdy. Edited March 6 by TheStarStillShines 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas94Ware Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 On 3/3/2024 at 6:59 PM, MaddHatter said: I’m not drafting any QB in this years class or next. I’m extending Dak and riding him for atleast 5 more years Sorry I didn't reply sooner I get this 100%, as I'm one of the first to defend Dak both with my buddies and on this forum. I think the things he has done to this point shows he is more than capable of leading this team to where it needs to go, and that falling short in the playoffs was always more about the team not being as deep as it needed to be, executing as well as it should, and the coaches being outwitted. Case in point, Aaron Rodgers with a miracle 40 some odd seconds long drive that no one could have foreseen spanning the distance it did in the timeframe it did. The defense was woefully prepared for the type of player Aaron was, and they got burned. Against SF,the defense struggled heavily to stifle the short passing game and the short yardage conversions on the ground. The team was in position to take that game over. But clock killing short passes that kept the chains moving were the bane of their existence. Against GB. The coaches came out running an entirely different scheme than what got them there. While that could catch a poor coach off guard, Shannahan saw it, altered his approach and took advantage. Sure, Dak didn't play his best football in those games. But when you play against good defenses in the playoffs, bad plays are going to happen. It's how you bounce back from them that determines the winner moreso than the mistake or two that were made. The team didn't bounce back. That's on the staff as much as any player. The QBs get all the credit and all the finger wagging. And it's unfortunate because there are 21 players that are on the field at the same time. Sometimes the other teams guys make a great play. Sometimes your best guys struggle and it's time for the role players and bit players to make an impact. This is where Belichick always made his teams shine on grand stages - pressure Brady, beat Welker up off the line. Bracket block McGinest. And some third stringer getting his first snap of the game creates a strip sack or a key third down grab. Dallas never seems.to have that. Gameplan away their key guys, and what's left never gets the job done. They need to when a ring is on the line. That all said ... Between his cap numbers, age (not that he is old, this should be prime time for him...it's more than in a few years, his body will indeed be on the decline), and the teams situation sets this team up to look for an eventual replacement. This last contract year for Dak and MM, with big paydays looking for Parsons, Lamb and others, with a roster built to do this thing NOW, means it's time to get this thing we have chased for decades now. And if they fall flat again, if you haven't renewed Daks or McCarthys contracts, you are in the perfect position to move on to the future at QB while retaining a solid group around that young QB. The situation is just too perfect, IMO, for the front office to start thinking about life after Dak, without it impacting Dak and this team right now. If they pull off the miracle season, you can easily renew Dak or Tag him and look to move the rookie you selected. If Dak comes up short on a big stage again, it costs you nothing to move on and let Lance and the rookie pick compete to see who deserves the reigns. And if that too then falters, you go into that following draft with likely a higher draft pick in a draft class that features a Manning. It's just too perfect of a time to not start thinking of the future. And if Dak shows he deserves to be in that future, well. All the better. But if not. You were at least prepared for it. In my opinion anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas94Ware Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 On 3/6/2024 at 5:09 AM, TheStarStillShines said: I’m too lazy to go through this entire thread, but like some folks I’m not high on McCarthy. Maybe I’m in the minority, but he screams Brady Quinn to me - slightly-above average tools with good intangibles but not necessarily the high IQ, big arm, and decisive player a championship team needs behind center. Jimmy Garoppolo is another comparison. While this is a taboo subject, I cannot help but think race plays a role in scouts’ evaluations on McCarthy. Sure he’s younger than Penix, Jr. and Nix, but his track record is less proven, he doesn’t possess the same physical skills, and he seems to be more of a manager than a driver. Obviously, the scheme in Michigan had a lot to do with this (but maybe Harbaugh and the UM staff knew to hide McCarthy’s deficiencies), but one would expect more. If another QB prospect performed as poorly as McCarthy did at the combine in terms of throwing the football, his stock would plummet. Yet he’s still projected to be a top-12 pick. Then there are questions - or lack of - on whether he can read defences and make the right reads. He was sheltered at Michigan and rarely asked to make difficult throws. He won’t have the same luxury in the NFL. This lack of questioning boggles my mind because they were often raised when assessing the likes of Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, and other athletic QBs. Even some evaluations questioned whether C.J. Stroud would be able to adjust to reading complex defences. Something just doesn’t jive. Or maybe scouts don’t want to look bad and again overlook the next Brock Purdy. Quinn never looked smooth and natural throwing the ball like McCarthy does..especially not on the move. Quinn was perfect with his mechanics and saw the field well, but he always looked like a college QB. Not a pro. McCarthy is just so natural and smooth as he releases, like he isn't thinking about it, it's just something his body does. That's a big difference between he and Quinn. And Quinn. Had he been given a chance with a team that doesn't perennially screw up their young passers with poor coaching, crappy defense and worse pass protecting, he may have very much been something bright. He had the tools to do it. But the franchise you end up in has as much impact on career trajectory as your talent level does. I do have to say I don't think McCarthy is the special kind of player. There isn't anything to his game that has a special level of ability. I don't think in 3 years we will be talking about him in the way we spoke of guys like Mahomes and Allen in their third years. But I do think in a good situation. With a good coach. He has a long career ahead complete with great production and a lot of wins. The kind of guy who you can rely on to keep his composure, lead his team, run his offense, bounce back from a mistake, and just be a good, reliable, decade long starter for a team. Do you want special? Of course. but you don't NEED special. Those truly special types are so rare and far between. Getting a Matt Ryan (not a player comparison, just an analogy) for your team may not be as flashy as getting a Lamar Jackson. But you can't argue at the kind of career a guy like a Matt Ryan had, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 On 3/6/2024 at 4:09 AM, TheStarStillShines said: I’m too lazy to go through this entire thread, but like some folks I’m not high on McCarthy. Maybe I’m in the minority, but he screams Brady Quinn to me - slightly-above average tools with good intangibles but not necessarily the high IQ, big arm, and decisive player a championship team needs behind center. Jimmy Garoppolo is another comparison. I need to finish my coffee. I had to read this paragraph three times before I realized you weren’t comparing Mike McCarthy to Brady Quinn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt79511 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 On 3/4/2024 at 10:22 AM, TVScout said: I would be OK with Guyton because: 2021 he played in 7 games and a total of 25 snaps. He conceded just one QB hurry, no QB hits, and no sacks while playing the majority of his snaps at left tackle, and the rest at left guard. https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Tyler-Guyton-OT-TCU You would draft Guyton because he played 25 snaps as a sophomore at TCU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 17 minutes ago, matt79511 said: You would draft Guyton because he played 25 snaps as a sophomore at TCU? 25 more than Mims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas94Ware Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 I was trying to come up with an NFL comp for McCarthy and I was having a hard time until it dawned on me. He is a lot like a young Russel Wilson. Both the good and the bad. His ability to throw on the move is definitely on par with Wilson back at college. A great thing to build on. And the main reason Wilson won the job in camp, combined with his willingness to lean on a run game and defense instead of play hero and risk the ball (and the game) when he doesn't have to. Just like McCarthy. Neither showed any "special" traits on the field that separated them from the competition. But also played smart football and thrived doing so. On the flip side of this, both have a penchant for causing unnecessary sacks or pressure by sliding around the pocket or escaping it when they don't really have to. It allows a pass rusher to get the angle that they need but didn't have, to beat their block. And both, despite a very natural, more modern release style with their throw, that sort of three-quarters release does result in balls coming out with a lower trajectory that puts the ball in harms way at the next level. I'm not saying McCarthy is the next Wilson. Despite his Hackett bomb year and his decent resurgence under Payton, and his struggles with constant pressure at the end of his Seattle tenure, Wilson has been damn close to a hall of Fame caliber player. McCarthy has a long way to go to even be considered on that level. I'm just comparing the two based on their strengths and weaknesses when entering the NFL draft. Overall, I've spent a lot of time looking over these QBs the last week. And there are some impressive traits to a few of them. Some things I'm impressed by. But through and through I think it's a relatively weak class. These kids will be drafted high because this is a year in which a lot of teams selecting in the first half of round 1 are in QB desperation mode, and some of the traits guys like Caleb Williams has or Jayden Daniels displays, or the solid foundation to work with on guys like McCarthy and Maye, and the developmental potential of Nix and Penix, are intriguing enough for them all to likely be over drafted by those teams in the QB desperation mode. I'm still all for Dallas pulling the trigger on one in round 1 or round 2 if the opportunity is there and the remaining prospects when Dallas is on the clock are not the key players we all seem to be in consensus on wanting or needing are gone. I'd rather they reach for and take a gamble on a QB who could potentially replace or. Dare I say. Even upgrade from Dak in the near future. Than roll the dice on a player we would simply be settling for because the key targets are gone. That's just me though, it seems. Which kind of feels weird! Because every draft season on this forum I'm condemning the idea of an early QB selection going back to 2016 when everyone was saying we NEEDED to go get Wentz. Now I'm the one saying selecting a QB high is the good idea, even if it's not one of the top 2 (because that is likely way out of reach), while most here are saying this is the year we should avoid it. It's so weird! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 On 3/4/2024 at 10:22 AM, TVScout said: I would be OK with Guyton because: 2021 he played in 7 games and a total of 25 snaps. He conceded just one QB hurry, no QB hits, and no sacks while playing the majority of his snaps at left tackle, and the rest at left guard. https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Tyler-Guyton-OT-TCU I like Guyton fine. But to me, he feels like the type of guy that you can get at #24 in most years. Given the loaded talent at OL, I am hopeful someone I like better falls. And if not, then I’m probably looking somewhere else, like the loaded WR class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 54 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said: I am hopeful someone I like better falls. Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 On 3/9/2024 at 8:50 AM, TVScout said: Who? Aside from the guys who obviously won’t be there, I’d have a stronggg preference for Mims or Fautanu. I also would take JPJ. Latham, Morgan, and Barton, maybe too. But those guys fall into that same category as Guyton. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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