The MVP race

[Forge]

It really feels like there are a lot of people in general who are scared of giving Purdy an MVP because he may be a "one year wonder" and having the award look bad in 5 years

[Forge]

48 minutes ago, Soggust said:

Again, I'm just going to keep throwing this out there until my point gets destroyed, bc I know I'm wrong, but I'm not sure where.

Who is to say he ain't a top 3 QB, right now? 

Now he's obviously not going to beat Mahomes' resume or Rodgers legacy blah blah no matter how well he plays. But if he goes Flacco in the playoffs and they win a SB, is he still a bum? Does he need to play well for multiple years to win a single year MVP? If he wins a SB - why isn't he better than Burrow and Allen? Because Allen is flashier? How has Burrow played when he had bad support?

Like, what about the eye test tells us he's not an elite QB? I don't watch every 49ers game, but of the ones I've seen, the dude throws with anticipation. He fires at the top of his drop. He eludes pressure. I don't know what I'm supposed to be seeing wrong.

Isn't part of the reason his receivers get open is him leading them and knowing the plays inside out? The QB game is not all improv backyard football. So why can't he be Tom Brady and win via mental, consistency, accuracy and execution?

Like, what tells us he's not the best player on the 49ers? Or even the league, this year? Every answer I hear involves some hypothetical where the 49ers are the "Pee Wee Cowboys" playing against the Little Giants.

Burrow is the guy I often think about with Purdy. 

Not supremely talented physically. Unsuspecting athlete that people underrate. Makes his money off big **** energy, aggressiveness and arrogance, and more creativity / chaos than a traditional pocket passer like a Goff type guy. Lives on anticipation and timing. 

Burrow's weapons aren't as good as the 49ers weapons all around, of course, but he doesn't get to cry poverty either. 

[Soggust]

  

14 minutes ago, Forge said:

It really feels like there are a lot of people in general who are scared of giving Purdy an MVP because he may be a "one year wonder" and having the award look bad in 5 years

Prolly because most folks realize that if Purdy wins a League MVP and makes a SB (maybe even without), I'm coming with the "Purdy > Burrow & Allen for #2 QB in NFL" takes this offseason and no one wants to have to listen to that.

 

8 minutes ago, Forge said:

Burrow is the guy I often think about with Purdy. 

Not supremely talented physically. Unsuspecting athlete that people underrate. Makes his money off big **** energy, aggressiveness and arrogance, and more creativity / chaos than a traditional pocket passer like a Goff type guy. Lives on anticipation and timing. 

Burrow's weapons aren't as good as the 49ers weapons all around, of course, but he doesn't get to cry poverty either. 

I think best case, he's Kurt Warner.

I think worst case, he's Carson Wentz.

Either way he turns out is irrelevant, though. They were both in the MVP convo that second year. 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Soggust

[FrantikRam]

2 hours ago, Soggust said:

How can CMC be the MVP if he's on a stacked team with great coaching and MVP QB play?

Why do we punish Brock Purdy for his team, but then we vote for a dude that's on the same team in a more dependent position? (I'm only picking on you because this is a common take and quotable, nothing personal)

We see the irony here right?

Even if we think CMC is the best player on the team (I'd argue Williams, but okay), this isn't even CMCs best year. So why wasn't Kyle Allen an MVP candidate and why did the Panthers go 5-11 in 2019 when they had CMC and similar production?

Because RB's are just not valuable anymore. It's feels like saying Lamar couldn't win MVP in 2019 because Justin Tucker was a better player P4P. Like, sure, maybe, but he doesn't play an important enough position, despite how much he scores.

 

Every single one is QB in a heartbeat, ESPECIALLY Brock with his contract.

 

 

It's a fair question. And it's a personal thing for me, beyond the stats. I think CMC is better when things aren't right around him than Purdy is.

But ultimately they are both on a stacked team - I think CMC is the engine of the offense, but I can see just saying this is a QB award and in that case, I think it has to go to Purdy.

[Jakuvious]

42 minutes ago, Forge said:

It really feels like there are a lot of people in general who are scared of giving Purdy an MVP because he may be a "one year wonder" and having the award look bad in 5 years

Yeah, I'd be much more sympathetic to some of these arguments if this was a top 10 QB ranking or something. Or if we were discussing what kind of extension Purdy should be getting. But the award is just this year, so that's all that should matter here. If he's Brian Sipe, so be it.

[FrantikRam]

40 minutes ago, Forge said:

It really feels like there are a lot of people in general who are scared of giving Purdy an MVP because he may be a "one year wonder" and having the award look bad in 5 years

 

That's not it for me, but I will admit that my actual reasoning probably isn't the best.

I think he's around the 10th best QB in the league (random *** number there, but the point is I think there are several QBs better than him) and it's awkward to me for someone in that tier to win league MVP.

I also subscribe to the situation being key for someone's success - I constantly ask the "what if ________ played for _________" - the number of QBs that I think would be tearing it up in the Niners offense this year is a pretty long list. Just makes it tough for me to give it to him.

But that said, I wouldn't argue with anyone who did want to give it to him because he is actually doing it.

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

45 minutes ago, Forge said:

It really feels like there are a lot of people in general who are scared of giving Purdy an MVP because he may be a "one year wonder" and having the award look bad in 5 years

I think the main hang up is literally the award name lol. They just need to change it to something else so that the valuable argument can go away. Purdy has been great this year and deserves all the praise and accolades. If this award had a name similar to The Heisman I feel like most people would be way more open to Purdy winning. 

[Jakuvious]

4 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

I think the main hang up is literally the award name lol. They just need to change it to something else so that the valuable argument can go away. Purdy has been great this year and deserves all the praise and accolades. If this award had a name similar to The Heisman I feel like most people would be way more open to Purdy winning. 

If you take the "valuable" part out of it, it wouldn't be going to a QB at all this year.

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

1 hour ago, Jakuvious said:

If you take the "valuable" part out of it, it wouldn't be going to a QB at all this year.

I essentially am just calling for them to make it a QB award. Let the OPOY be the best non-QB. DPOY best defender. MVP becomes best QB season. Problem solved.

Edited December 18, 2023 by AZ_Eaglesfan

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 hours ago, Soggust said:

Again, I'm just going to keep throwing this out there until my point gets destroyed, bc I know I'm wrong, but I'm not sure where.

Who is to say he ain't a top 3 QB, right now? 

Now he's obviously not going to beat Mahomes' resume or Rodgers legacy blah blah no matter how well he plays. But if he goes Flacco in the playoffs and they win a SB, is he still a bum? Does he need to play well for multiple years to win a single year MVP? If he wins a SB - why isn't he better than Burrow and Allen? Because Allen is flashier? How has Burrow played when he had bad support?

Like, what about the eye test tells us he's not an elite QB? I don't watch every 49ers game, but of the ones I've seen, the dude throws with anticipation. He fires at the top of his drop. He eludes pressure. I don't know what I'm supposed to be seeing wrong.

Isn't part of the reason his receivers get open is him leading them and knowing the plays inside out? The QB game is not all improv backyard football. So why can't he be Tom Brady and win via mental, consistency, accuracy and execution?

Like, what tells us he's not the best player on the 49ers? Or even the league, this year? Every answer I hear involves some hypothetical where the 49ers are the "Pee Wee Cowboys" playing against the Little Giants.

It's what I've been saying for weeks in the Niners forum. QBs like Purdy end up getting respect more down the line when they consistently put up this type of production and have SB success. It is easier to see the raw physical talent of other top QBs compared to those QBs that play sort of a boring style but make the right read almost every single play. That's why you will have guys like Steven Ruiz saying that Purdy is not doing anything and it is all Shanahan. Brady was taller with a better arm than Purdy, but look how many years it took him to truly get his respect. If Burrow was a 3rd round pick instead of the #1 overall pick, he would not have gotten the same type of love he's getting right now either. 

 

[AngusMcFife]

2 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

It's what I've been saying for weeks in the Niners forum. QBs like Purdy end up getting respect more down the line when they consistently put up this type of production and have SB success. It is easier to see the raw physical talent of other top QBs compared to those QBs that play sort of a boring style but make the right read almost every single play. That's why you will have guys like Steven Ruiz saying that Purdy is not doing anything and it is all Shanahan. Brady was taller with a better arm than Purdy, but look how many years it took him to truly get his respect. If Burrow was a 3rd round pick instead of the #1 overall pick, he would not have gotten the same type of love he's getting right now either. 

 

Plenty of Pats fans compared Mac Jones to Tom Brady after Mac's first year. Sometimes it is wise to see how a QB's career plays out before anointing him. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

It really feels like there are a lot of people in general who are scared of giving Purdy an MVP because he may be a "one year wonder" and having the award look bad in 5 years

Honestly, the ones worrying about him being a one year wonder shouldn't. It's not like he is making a killing off of certain things that opposing defenses have not caught up to yet. What he does well, he will always do well and that's not going to change. When you can process as fast as he can and know what defenses are going to do beforehand, it's going to be like this for some time. 

I think what hurts Purdy the most is you have some great QBs like Brees that never won the MVP award and you have current QBs like Allen that have never won the award. THAT is what makes people especially ticked off. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

9 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Plenty of Pats fans compared Mac Jones to Tom Brady after Mac's first year. Sometimes it is wise to see how a QB's career plays out before anointing him. 

Of course, but it is wise to wait to see how every players career will play out before comparing them to other great players. But I'm just saying, the play style of Purdy and his consistency on a play by play basis will not be respected until he does it for some time....And that at that point it just becomes undeniable. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by J-ALL-DAY

[incognito_man]

Nothing has changed. Still clearly Purdy.

[Soggust]

4 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

It's what I've been saying for weeks in the Niners forum. QBs like Purdy end up getting respect more down the line when they consistently put up this type of production and have SB success. It is easier to see the raw physical talent of other top QBs compared to those QBs that play sort of a boring style but make the right read almost every single play. That's why you will have guys like Steven Ruiz saying that Purdy is not doing anything and it is all Shanahan. Brady was taller with a better arm than Purdy, but look how many years it took him to truly get his respect. If Burrow was a 3rd round pick instead of the #1 overall pick, he would not have gotten the same type of love he's getting right now either. 

 

PFF coming around on him.

They have him top 5 on the season despite having him 17th through first 9 games.

We usually make all QBs wait a year and a halfish before crowning them top 3 (we even did this with Burrow). Mahomes was an exception but that was like a top 3 season ever.

So, if Brock maintains play and is a top 5ish PFF player next year, then he's a legit top 3-5 QB right?