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The MVP race

Steelersfan43

By Steelersfan43
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AngusMcFife

AngusMcFife

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, straighthate said:

I wasn’t sure where you were going with it until you threw Lamar’s name in there. I guess you’ll see on Monday. And when you watch the game and the replays, ask if Lamar would have gotten the ball out at that same time for a 20 yard gain or if he would have tucked it and ran. Looks better on the highlights for sure, but doesn’t mean he’s a better QB. 

Since you feel fine about recommending others to watch 49ers tape, I might suggest you watch more Ravens tape before jumping to outdated conclusions. 

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Forge

Forge

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Basically the same thing as in the Niners' similar record, pretty similar base stats and similar offensive rankings. You can dive in to the more efficiency-based stats and how they produced those results (for example, Jimmy throwing a lot more screen passes), but in the end the results are basically the same.

Shanahan's system is the GOAT for the modern offense making the QB position easy mode. 

The funny part is that Jimmy G wasn't even in the MVP conversation in 2019 (unless I'm really mis-remembering. I'm trying to find 2019 MVP odds and nothing has him listed as of November of that year)

He wasn't because his first 8 games or so were pretty mediocre. It was a lot of blow outs of bad teams. He didn't really come on until the back half of the year. He already had 14 turnovers through November. 

That said though, the results are not really the same. 

Touchdowns are down about 9% this year from 2019 with total scoring down about 5% I believe, and the 49ers are up a point more per game. They also scoring at a higher clip per play (.475 to .512). 

 

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Posted
Posted

Purdy not being helped out be a tremendous supporting cast has never been an argument I have made. The hyperbole is a bit tough to stomach sometimes. The hypotheticals are annoying because people automatically just assume that another player can do what he can in this system or that he can't do what others are doing production wise in other environments. I think that entire stance is largely faulty. 

You don't get 10 yards per pass and 9.33 ANY / A and 31 points per game without both a QB playing insanely well and a roster that is really damn good. 

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AFlaccoSeagulls

AFlaccoSeagulls

Posted
Posted
Just now, Forge said:

You don't get 10 yards per pass and 9.33 ANY / A and 31 points per game without both a QB playing insanely well and a roster that is really damn good. 

2019 Lamar was 8.9 AY/A, 9% TD%, 33.2 PPG while throwing to the following WR's:

  • Marquise Brown (rookie)
  • Willie Snead
  • Seth Roberts
  • Miles Boykin

And the RB stable of:

  • Mark Ingram
  • Gus Edwards (rookie)

SO HA! TAKE THAT!

(idk what the point of this post was, tbh, i'm just bored at work before the holidays)

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Ray Reed

Ray Reed

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I personally don’t think Lamar is having an MVP type season. He’s been pretty good but after watching every snap of his this season I don’t think he’s the best player in the league or even the best quarterback in the league. Definitely top 5 this year IMO but it feels like there has to be some more deserving players out there. Give it to CMC or Tyreek honestly 

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Soggust

Soggust

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Basically the same thing as in the Niners' similar record

2019 first 14 games: 11-3
2022 JG games:  7-3
2023: 11-3

Checks out. 👍

  

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

pretty similar base stats

2019 first 14 games:             69.09% comp | 3,498 totYards (249.8 pg)  | 27:16 td:to  | 8.1 y/a   |  102.8 rtg
2022 10 Jimmy G games:     67.21% comp  | 2,404 totYards (240 pg)     |  18:6 td:to  |  7.9 y/a  |  103.1 rtg
2023 Purdy:                           69.79% comp | 3,933 totYards (280.9 pg)  | 31:9 td:to   | 9.9 y/a  |  119.0 rtg

🤨

 

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

and similar offensive rankings.

I don't have partial season splits for these, sorry.

Team Passing Stats (League Rank)

2019:  Attempts (29) | Yards (13) | Touchdowns (10) | Interceptions (18) | NY/A (3)
2022:  Attempts (26) | Yards (13) | Touchdowns (4)  | Interceptions (3) | NY/A (3)
2023:  Attempts (32) | Yards (1)   | Touchdowns (2)  | Interceptions (2) | NY/A (1)

-------------------------------------

I'm not seeing where Jimmy G supposedly played like Brock Purdy. His best stretch, with CMC and not a full season, was 16 rating points lower than Brock this year.

That's basically the difference between this year's Dak Prescott and Geno Smith. 

 

Edited by Soggust
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AFlaccoSeagulls

AFlaccoSeagulls

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28 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

I personally don’t think Lamar is having an MVP type season. He’s been pretty good but after watching every snap of his this season I don’t think he’s the best player in the league or even the best quarterback in the league. Definitely top 5 this year IMO but it feels like there has to be some more deserving players out there. Give it to CMC or Tyreek honestly 

Tyreek's case was just obliterated last weekend.

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straighthate

straighthate

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

Since you feel fine about recommending others to watch 49ers tape, I might suggest you watch more Ravens tape before jumping to outdated conclusions. 

Touché, I have not watched that many Ravens games this year. However, I just looked to see if what I thought I had seen matched stats. Article on the Ravens website was prior to this weekend, but Lamar’s pressure rate is 18th highest in the league, so let’s say average, but his scramble rate is the highest of his career and highest in the league at 12.5%. Could be other reasons for it, but seems like that’s not exactly proof that I’m wrong when I said rather than throw he tucks it and runs. But you could have other explanations. I did a quick search and saw an outdated article (I think four games ago) that showed 32% of their pass plays have three open receivers 12% have four open receivers. Both those numbers were up significantly from last year. So seems to not help your argument that it’s outdated that he scrambles even with open receivers. But seriously, haven’t watched enough of him, it’s my feeling from the games I have seen and a quick check of some (outdated) stats. Feel free to explain what you’re seeing different. 
 

And once again, I never argued Lamar’s value as an MVP. Sure I compared him, but never said he was more or less deserving than Purdy. Just said many of you haven’t watched Purdy and are choosing not to look at the stats but are ripping on him cuz you heard it on someone’s podcast. I also said I’m excited to hear where he ranks when the players (who understand the game and what goes on on the field better than us or ESPN) when the season ends. 
 

Looking forward to Monday night!  
 

And to the person who commented on how confident I am of Purdy or whatever…. MVP is based off this year. Not the next 3-4 years or draft status or last year. That’s my exact point. Some of you want him to prove over time he’s good. Doesn’t need to to be an mvp candidate. It’s a one year thing. 

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Trojan

Trojan

Posted
Posted

I still think Tua is in this and has Ravens, Bills and Cowboys left on the schedule. He just beat the Jets 30-0 without Tyreek. If he gets one of those oh damn statlines or two and 3-0's the remainder of his schedule he should have a shot. If he loses games he probably falls behind Brock and whoever he lost to though. I'd go Purdy #1, then Dak/Lamar/Allen/Tua, then long shots to CMC or Tyreek and outside shot to Mahomes. The fact Tua plays 3 of the QBs I have in his tier says to me he has the opportunity to jump to #1 despite basically no talk about it.

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