Sugashane Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 hour ago, dll2000 said: I love Brock Bowers. Like Mooney he didn’t quite look same after ankle injury. Also I don’t trust Bears with him. I don’t know Waldron yet and Bowers is a guy that you utilize a bit outside of box to maximize his value. It takes a creative coach. I don’t want Bears to draft him at 9. If they trade down and get him I’m in. The thing that is pulling me away from Bowers a bit is history too. How many 1st round tight ends ended up being great players? You can list several like Olsen, Dallas Clark, and maybe a few others, but most were guys who either severely underperformed or had just a few really good years (Ebron, Shockey, Winslow Jr, Heap) but seemed to fade pretty quickly. And with a list of Pitts, Winslow Jr, Davis and Ebron being the only TEs to be drafted top 10 I am likely looking more for a TE later unless I am really confident in Waldron using him well. Honestly I think if Bowers is here him and Kmet need to be used a lot like Gronk/Hernandez were together. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 20 minutes ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said: The argument that you could get "the haul"and build it up for future QB in case Justin didn't get better is nice, but really ignores how unique it is to align with the bears having not a terrible roster, the first round pick, and such a highly ranked prospect. Go fer it. The Haul - isn't 'haul' a verb? - is nearly always for a QB. If Justin was an elite QB he is the haul. If you have a top 3 pick that pick is the haul = but you are trading it to someone else to draft their QB. Hauls = franchise QBs is my point. You shouldn't trade 'a haul' unless you have one in place or you are still hopeful your current QB can be one. Or in case of Alex Smith or Justin Fields if you are simply happier with a newer version 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 19 minutes ago, Sugashane said: The thing that is pulling me away from Bowers a bit is history too. How many 1st round tight ends ended up being great players? You can list several like Olsen, Dallas Clark, and maybe a few others, but most were guys who either severely underperformed or had just a few really good years (Ebron, Shockey, Winslow Jr, Heap) but seemed to fade pretty quickly. And with a list of Pitts, Winslow Jr, Davis and Ebron being the only TEs to be drafted top 10 I am likely looking more for a TE later unless I am really confident in Waldron using him well. Honestly I think if Bowers is here him and Kmet need to be used a lot like Gronk/Hernandez were together. Right but NE was super creative with that. Hernandez lined up all over the place. They used him at RB a lot. And it worked. That is my point exactly. Most teams are not creative. If it is Andy Reid or Belichick plus McDaniels - I am in. Let's do it. If you recall at that particular time too when NE did that, for a lot of teams the TE was kind of a dying position. For most it was an after thought. This is when defenses went completely small and fast. NE really zagged there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 5 hours ago, Sugashane said: The thing that is pulling me away from Bowers a bit is history too. How many 1st round tight ends ended up being great players? You can list several like Olsen, Dallas Clark, and maybe a few others, but most were guys who either severely underperformed or had just a few really good years (Ebron, Shockey, Winslow Jr, Heap) but seemed to fade pretty quickly. And with a list of Pitts, Winslow Jr, Davis and Ebron being the only TEs to be drafted top 10 I am likely looking more for a TE later unless I am really confident in Waldron using him well. Honestly I think if Bowers is here him and Kmet need to be used a lot like Gronk/Hernandez were together. The problem for now, though relatively very small in the future grand scheme of things, is Everett and how Keenan Allen plays ...Everett got a decent payday and would never see the field, AnD KA pretty much OnLY plays slot uggh Bowers will be a SuPerStaR ! and WILL be there at 9... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 20 minutes ago, SLCbear said: The problem for now, though relatively very small in the future grand scheme of things, is Everett and how Keenan Allen plays ...Everett got a decent payday and would never see the field, AnD KA pretty much OnLY plays slot uggh Bowers will be a SuPerStaR ! and WILL be there at 9... IMO you don't pass on a superstar for a guy who only has one year guaranteed. You don't even change your board for that guy. I'm not knocking you at all, but imagine someone saying this was Kelce 2.0 and then Poles said, "We had Everett so we just figured we would take a shot elsewhere." That would make Poles look incredibly short sighted and kind of stupid. If yo feel a guy is a legit top 5-10 player then you take him IMO. Also if Allen only plays slot, then get creative with motions, run 4 wide and put Kmet and Bowers to one side, Allen and Moore to the other. Put Bowers as the X or Z and let him be a physical presence out there. And Poles and Eberflus benched Whitehair who was making WAY more, so I believe they care more about on field play than the paycheck. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Sugashane said: IMO you don't pass on a superstar for a guy who only has one year guaranteed. You don't even change your board for that guy. I'm not knocking you at all, but imagine someone saying this was Kelce 2.0 and then Poles said, "We had Everett so we just figured we would take a shot elsewhere." That would make Poles look incredibly short sighted and kind of stupid. If yo feel a guy is a legit top 5-10 player then you take him IMO. And Poles and Eberflus benched Whitehair who was making WAY more, so I believe they care more about on field play than the paycheck. RiGHT, which is EXaCtLY why I said very small in the future grand scheme of things You don't pass on a superstar I'm taking BB over ever player in this Draft besides Caleb Marvin and maybe ALT... BUT we'll be paying Everett (who is not a blocker AT aLL) 8mil and still need a blocking TE Maybe we have 4 TEs on Roster or BB takes FB roster spot Keenan Allen ONLY plays slot Everett will never see the field Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, SLCbear said: BUT we'll be paying Everett 8mil Everett will never see the field Sounds like Everett would have quite a wonderful problem lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 (edited) If we went Bowers, I'd almost double down and get Ben Sinnott right after him, or take a shot on Jared Wiley later.... Because 12 personnel would immediately become our "base" offense, and we'd need at least 4 guys for those 2 slots... and hell probably a semi decent 5th guy that's more or less a STer only just to cover injuries. TE aren't typically super high yardage guys, and using them significantly would require more investment at the position. Worth mentioning as well, can't remember if it was here, or elsewhere, but someone pointed out that Waldron's "TE 2" isn't really that prominent a role... 600 yards would basically be the upper limit on "heavy usage", and while that'd historically be Chicago's #2 or even #1 receiver most years, for NORMAL teams it's like 4th or 5th. Edited March 23 by Epyon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 Double posting for a different hypothetical..... but apparently we met with Xavier Worthy. I gotta say, I'm actually not really that high on him the more I look into his stats.... despite his ludicrous speed, he's not really a deep threat guy.... I kind of get the appeal since he's a completely different flavor than DJMoore and Keenan Allen.... but I'd rather go for a home run hitter in that projected early 2nd round range if we have picks there. Give me Troy Franklin all day over Worthy if we want a speedy deep ball specialist, and give me Ladd McConkey all day for an underneath/gadget guy. For me to go for someone as small/fast as Worthy, I need to see Tyreek Hill vibes, and I just don't with Worthy. I'd even prefer Roman Wilson or Ricky Pearsall over him I think, and both are over a round later on draft sims. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malagabears Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 OT but I'm getting a vibe JJ McCarthy is going to be a very good QB. He seems to be very cerebral and I like his throwing mechanics and his composure. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 3 hours ago, malagabears said: OT but I'm getting a vibe JJ McCarthy is going to be a very good QB. He seems to be very cerebral and I like his throwing mechanics and his composure. That’s the thought on him. He is a sit and learn guy to me who could have a big payoff for a patient team willing to invest on a young guy with upside. The Green Bay’s of the NFL world though are few and far between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 I am impressed with Poles. With our 2024 draft picks we already have Sweat, Allen and Bates. I always judge a good draft as adding 2 good or plus starters and an avg one to a roster. Mission accomplished before draft even starts. Now you may not want to count picks for vets in equation, especially if they are older or come with a big contract. I can see that. We still added two really good starters that weren’t available in FA and probably an avg or maybe below avg one. Our odds of getting good plus players at 1.1 and 1.9 are really good. That’s 4 plus players in one offseason using draft capital. And you can still get lucky with other picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 There is likely no edge in this draft as good as Sweat. We got him for a 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 15 hours ago, Epyon said: Double posting for a different hypothetical..... but apparently we met with Xavier Worthy. I gotta say, I'm actually not really that high on him the more I look into his stats.... despite his ludicrous speed, he's not really a deep threat guy.... I kind of get the appeal since he's a completely different flavor than DJMoore and Keenan Allen.... but I'd rather go for a home run hitter in that projected early 2nd round range if we have picks there. Give me Troy Franklin all day over Worthy if we want a speedy deep ball specialist, and give me Ladd McConkey all day for an underneath/gadget guy. For me to go for someone as small/fast as Worthy, I need to see Tyreek Hill vibes, and I just don't with Worthy. I'd even prefer Roman Wilson or Ricky Pearsall over him I think, and both are over a round later on draft sims. I'd be ecstatic to get Pearsall in the 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, dll2000 said: There is likely no edge in this draft as good as Sweat. We got him for a 2nd. I am still genuinely not certain how to evalutate that move, as it's Sweat's contract plus a 2. Smarter people than me seem to like it so I'm happy to go with that, but I wish there was a table or something where you could add up the values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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