2024 Draft Debate and Discussion

[AZBearsFan]

On 12/24/2023 at 2:23 PM, beardown3231 said:

I'm not getting the game but I've been following it on espn gamecast or whatever. Howell is 6/20 for 56 yards. I'd prefer to keep Williams out of the NFC but if the Bears do roll with Fields in 2024, Washington might be desperate enough to give the Bears a haul

NE, especially if Belichick “retires” after the season, intrigues me a little more because of keeping the QB we trade away in that scenario out of the NFC. A whole new regime there might do just about anything. 

With that said, barring something unforeseen in the next 12 days, AZ is going to be the wild card in everything beyond our presumed pick at 1. Assuming Williams will go 1 to somebody, would they trade away Murray to take Maye, give Harrison and another weapon with HOU’s 1 to Murray, trade 2 to someone who wants Maye for another haul in the 2025 draft, or maybe even give us both their 2024 1s to go from 2 to 1?

Much as I’d like everything to be figured out once the season is over and the draft order is set it’s gonna be at least a few months, probably right around the start of FA, before we have any actual answers. The immediate future is only going to tell us where the pieces are starting at on the game board. 

[AZBearsFan]

On 12/15/2023 at 1:31 PM, beardown3231 said:

In the prior game, they scored 0 points. Funny how everyone on twitter last night was like "told you O'Connell was a steal in the 4th!!!!11!"

Fast forward a week and he threw for ZERO yards after the first quarter in a game in which he played the entire game. His presence isn’t going to impact anything they look to do in the draft. 

[Epyon]

The draft rumor mill already getting fun, and Caleb getting his first taste of Chicago media for Xmas. 

So basically he "liked" a tweet saying that the Bears should draft MHJ over him and build around Fields. Not known for over reacting, the internet exploded with Fields fans and doomers saying some combination of: it proves he thinks Fields is a future HoFer, he knows he's a bust, and that he doesn't want to come here because this organization is a rancid dumpster fire. While Caleb supporters said it was probably just him "keeping receipts" of people doubting him. 

A few hours (and likely at least one call from his agent later) he ended up "liking" another tweet about how some guy wished for Christmas that Chicago would get Caleb Williams for their qb.

The good news is, it looks like he's not opposed to the idea of being here.....and he's already got a frankly hilarious education in how nuts Chicago fans are, literally Twitter stalking his "likes"..... (also how we find out which part of female anatomy Mitch really liked back in the day) 

Long road to go in this draft process. 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

1 hour ago, Epyon said:

The draft rumor mill already getting fun, and Caleb getting his first taste of Chicago media for Xmas. 

So basically he "liked" a tweet saying that the Bears should draft MHJ over him and build around Fields. Not known for over reacting, the internet exploded with Fields fans and doomers saying some combination of: it proves he thinks Fields is a future HoFer, he knows he's a bust, and that he doesn't want to come here because this organization is a rancid dumpster fire. While Caleb supporters said it was probably just him "keeping receipts" of people doubting him. 

A few hours (and likely at least one call from his agent later) he ended up "liking" another tweet about how some guy wished for Christmas that Chicago would get Caleb Williams for their qb.

The good news is, it looks like he's not opposed to the idea of being here.....and he's already got a frankly hilarious education in how nuts Chicago fans are, literally Twitter stalking his "likes"..... (also how we find out which part of female anatomy Mitch really liked back in the day) 

Long road to go in this draft process. 

Give yourself a friendly pat on the back for me please

[beardown3231]

4 hours ago, Epyon said:

The draft rumor mill already getting fun, and Caleb getting his first taste of Chicago media for Xmas. 

So basically he "liked" a tweet saying that the Bears should draft MHJ over him and build around Fields. Not known for over reacting, the internet exploded with Fields fans and doomers saying some combination of: it proves he thinks Fields is a future HoFer, he knows he's a bust, and that he doesn't want to come here because this organization is a rancid dumpster fire. While Caleb supporters said it was probably just him "keeping receipts" of people doubting him. 

A few hours (and likely at least one call from his agent later) he ended up "liking" another tweet about how some guy wished for Christmas that Chicago would get Caleb Williams for their qb.

The good news is, it looks like he's not opposed to the idea of being here.....and he's already got a frankly hilarious education in how nuts Chicago fans are, literally Twitter stalking his "likes"..... (also how we find out which part of female anatomy Mitch really liked back in the day) 

Long road to go in this draft process. 

He likes tweets all the time about people calling others better QB's and/or that he'll be a bust, he's a crybaby, etc

He's doing it as motivation. This city sucks

[Madmike90]

Not a great look for Caleb last night 😬 Miller Miss doing a Bagent out there 😂

[AZBearsFan]

3 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

Not a great look for Caleb last night 😬 Miller Miss doing a Bagent out there 😂

Moss looking that good in his first start serves to remind people that it’s not just the results that need to be scouted with players. Williams put up gaudy numbers, but so has everyone in Riley’s scheme, and while most of them have NFL ability none have been nearly what you’d call a superstar in the NFL despite having found themselves at the top of their respective draft classes. It’s not fair to hold that against Williams any more fair than it was to hold Fields’ going to OSU against him, but it’ll be part of the evaluation to separate out what Williams does from that which is created for him by the scheme too. I wish we’d been able to see Williams outside of Riley’s scheme in college - I think we’d have a better feel for what’s him and what’s the system.  

[AZBearsFan]

On 12/26/2023 at 12:04 PM, beardown3231 said:

He likes tweets all the time about people calling others better QB's and/or that he'll be a bust, he's a crybaby, etc

He's doing it as motivation. This city sucks

Our fan base’s social media presence is 95% meatballs and ill-informed know-it-alls who just regurgitate catch phrases they heard elsewhere like they wrote a book on the stuff. all fan bases are probably like this I suppose, but ours is larger than most other fan bases. 

[StLunatic88]

50 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

Williams put up gaudy numbers, but so has everyone in Riley’s scheme, and while most of them have NFL ability none have been nearly what you’d call a superstar in the NFL despite having found themselves at the top of their respective draft classes. It’s not fair to hold that against Williams any more fair than it was to hold Fields’ going to OSU against him, but it’ll be part of the evaluation to separate out what Williams does from that which is created for him by the scheme too. I wish we’d been able to see Williams outside of Riley’s scheme in college - I think we’d have a better feel for what’s him and what’s the system.  

Hold it against Williams? No, but it’s a MASSIVE factor that many are ignoring right now.

And what is funny is, you were never going to see him outside of Riley’s system, he was always going to play for him, and only him. So unless you can bring that scheme to the NFL and make it work, I have major reservations.

The thing that worries me most about Caleb Williams isn’t his abilities, or his scheme dependency, or even his weird personality on their own. It’s just how Manufactured everything Caleb Williams is. I’d encourage you all to deep dive into how he and his Father put all of his college football career together in the effort to be the #1 overall pick. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t want it, but it makes a lot more of his decisions even more curious when you know he was “coached” by a Hollywood fixer in how to present himself at all times. Which like I said, makes the fingernails and the comments and the no longer speaking to media all just so strange.  

Some real Todd Marinovich vibes that I can’t shake right now 

[AZBearsFan]

2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Hold it against Williams? No, but it’s a MASSIVE factor that many are ignoring right now.

And what is funny is, you were never going to see him outside of Riley’s system, he was always going to play for him, and only him. So unless you can bring that scheme to the NFL and make it work, I have major reservations.

The thing that worries me most about Caleb Williams isn’t his abilities, or his scheme dependency, or even his weird personality on their own. It’s just how Manufactured everything Caleb Williams is. I’d encourage you all to deep dive into how he and his Father put all of his college football career together in the effort to be the #1 overall pick. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t want it, but it makes a lot more of his decisions even more curious when you know he was “coached” by a Hollywood fixer in how to present himself at all times. Which like I said, makes the fingernails and the comments and the no longer speaking to media all just so strange.  

Some real Todd Marinovich vibes that I can’t shake right now 

I’m working way through whether the flaws I am seeing in Williams are things that others are openly looking past or willing to accept, or if they’re more product of prospect fatigue. I don't oppose the idea of Williams over Fields (though my irrelevant personal preference is to take the trade haul and build a juggernaut around him) so I think I can be fairly objective about what I think he is or is not without viewing it through the lens of my thoughts on Fields at present and moving forward. 

[JibjeResearch]

Oregon's WR Troy Franklin is a bigger Darnell Mooney who can catch over his shoulder (without turning around) and keep running.  This is the type of WRs JF1 needs.   I think Troy will go late 1st (very likely) or early 2nd (most likely gone).

[Epyon]

2 hours ago, JibjeResearch said:

Oregon's WR Troy Franklin is a bigger Darnell Mooney who can catch over his shoulder (without turning around) and keep running.  This is the type of WRs JF1 needs.   I think Troy will go late 1st (very likely) or early 2nd (most likely gone).

I like Franklin a lot myself......  QB passer rating when targeting him was rediculous too (145.3)

That said, he also has a pretty thin frame, and I question how well he will handle more physical corners at the NFL level....

Regardless he's currently part of my dream setup right now for the draft:

1.1 Caleb

1.~6ish Nabers-WR

Then Fields' trade pick hopefully in late first early 2nd range for Franklin.

 

I'm also intrigued by Leggette and Worthy in that range, but Leggette has significant bust risk and Worthy has size concerns being only 170lbs at 6ft 1in

Edited December 29, 2023 by Epyon

[JibjeResearch]

10 hours ago, Epyon said:

I like Franklin a lot myself......  QB passer rating when targeting him was rediculous too (145.3)

That said, he also has a pretty thin frame, and I question how well he will handle more physical corners at the NFL level....

Regardless he's currently part of my dream setup right now for the draft:

1.1 Caleb

1.~6ish Nabers-WR

Then Fields' trade pick hopefully in late first early 2nd range for Franklin.

 

I'm also intrigued by Leggette and Worthy in that range, but Leggette has significant bust risk and Worthy has size concerns being only 170lbs at 6ft 1in

The Bears should target these WRs in the 1st round because of height to match with DJ-Moore's skill.

1. MHJ 2. BrianThomasJr 3. TroyFranklin 4. Keon Coleman  

One of these 2. BrianThomasJr 3. TroyFranklin 4. Keon Coleman should still be on the board around the 12th to the 25th spot

I don't think Franklin will be there in the 2nd, but a smaller version Worthy will

Edited December 29, 2023 by JibjeResearch

[beardown3231]

1 hour ago, JibjeResearch said:

The Bears should target these WRs in the 1st round because of height to match with DJ-Moore's skill.

1. MHJ 2. BrianThomasJr 3. TroyFranklin 4. Keon Coleman  

One of these 2. BrianThomasJr 3. TroyFranklin 4. Keon Coleman should still be on the board around the 12th to the 25th spot

I don't think Franklin will be there in the 2nd, but a smaller version Worthy will

No Nabers?

[JibjeResearch]

2 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

No Nabers?

We have Nabers.  DJMoore is Nabers with speed.