-Hope- Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, KhanYouDigIt said: He said Carson was an MVP candidate in his 2nd season under Doug and I pointed out Lawrence is also an MVP candidate in his 2nd season under Doug. If you’re 6th in odds at the halfway point, you’re a candidate. Jags win these next two games and he produces, he’s top 3, like I said. yeah, and my whole point is that that is an extreme stretch and an almost-comically broad definition of what constitutes being an mvp candidate. wentz had 19 touchdown passes at this point in 2017 lol. *right now,* lawrence is not performing like an mvp contender. wentz absolutely was. sure, lawrence could go on a tear or something, but tua has 18 touchdowns right at this moment. let's be real here. Edited November 4, 2023 by -Hope- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 8 minutes ago, Soggust said: Forget for a moment that you are comparing Trevor's best stretch to arguably Baker's worst stretch of his entire career - Why ignore fumbles but include rushing TDs? Trevor would still be ahead (24 TO vs 31 TO), but ignoring it seems like we are trying to skew the difference to look even bigger. Lost fumbles all about luck, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said: He said Carson was an MVP candidate in his 2nd season under Doug and I pointed out Lawrence is also an MVP candidate in his 2nd season under Doug. If you’re 6th in odds at the halfway point, you’re a candidate. Jags win these next two games and he produces, he’s top 3, like I said. Legit question - (I know I'm a TL hater so it will seem like I'm asking in bad faith but I promise I'm not) Would you consider CMC or Brock Purdy MVP candidates at the moment? How about Burrow? Because they are right around TL in the odds and I don't think I would consider any of them legit contenders, despite being great players obv (sans Purdy). edit- if the answer is yes, fair enough. Your definition just a bit broader than mine, but it's consistent. Edited November 4, 2023 by Soggust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 1 minute ago, -Hope- said: yeah, and my whole point is that that is an extreme stretch and an almost-comically broad definition of what constitutes being an mvp candidate. wentz had 19 touchdown passes at this point in 2017 lol. Did I miss me saying Lawrence is outperforming Wentz at this point in year 2 under Pederson? All I said was that Lawrence is a candidate as well lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 Just now, KhanYouDigIt said: Lost fumbles all about luck, to be honest. I hate this argument lol. Every stat is luck. Balls get tipped for interceptions. Dudes run wrong routes and aren't where they are supposed to be. Check downs go for 70 yard TDs. QBs get 1 yard sneak TDs. Or how about one you can relate to - Receivers drop obvious touchdowns lol. Fumbles are like literally the only stat people try to contextualize. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 4 minutes ago, Soggust said: I hate this argument lol. Every stat is luck. Balls get tipped for interceptions. Dudes run wrong routes and aren't where they are supposed to be. Check downs go for 70 yard TDs. QBs get 1 yard sneak TDs. Or how about one you can relate to - Receivers drop obvious touchdowns lol. Fumbles are like literally the only stat people try to contextualize. For reference: Fields has 32 fumbles and has lost 9. 28% has been lost. Lawrence has 27 fumbles and has lost 17. 63% has been lost. If my math is correct, 63% is the highest among QB’s in the last 3 years. Bad luck. https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-qb-fumbles-last-3-yrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 52 minutes ago, Soggust said: Legit question - (I know I'm a TL hater so it will seem like I'm asking in bad faith but I promise I'm not) Would you consider CMC or Brock Purdy MVP candidates at the moment? How about Burrow? Because they are right around TL in the odds and I don't think I would consider any of them legit contenders, despite being great players obv (sans Purdy). edit- if the answer is yes, fair enough. Your definition just a bit broader than mine, but it's consistent. This year has been a bad year for offenses in general so I’d say the MVP race has broadened to more candidates than it would be during a normal year. like y’all wanna go off numbers and compare previous years, but if you treat this year in a vaccuum then TL is definitely a MVP candidate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chiefer said: This year has been a bad year for offenses in general so I’d say the MVP race has broadened to more candidates than it would be during a normal year. like y’all wanna go off numbers and compare previous years, but if you treat this year in a vaccuum then TL is definitely a MVP candidate. For context, TL is +1800 to win MVP currently. In 2022 at week 9, these were the MVP odds - Jalen Hurts: +250 (+350) Patrick Mahomes: +275 (+400) Josh Allen: +300 (+120) Lamar Jackson: +1200 (+1000, yet to play) Geno Smith: +2000 (+2800) Joe Burrow: +2000 (+1200) Tua Tagovailoa: +2500 (+5000) Kirk Cousins: +4000 (+4000) Justin Herbert: +5000 (+2800) Christian McCaffrey: +8000 (+5000) So he's basically where Burrow + Geno were last year. Smith finished 14th in MVP voting. Burrow finished 4th. Hell, Trevor himself finished 7th last year. So while I do think he's in theoretical striking distance, he still basically has to create his entire MVP case in order to win the MVP. Edited November 4, 2023 by Soggust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheatieMan Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 San Fran game will be the real test. Two teams off the bye. Huge playoff seeding implications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 (edited) 19 hours ago, Nabbs4u said: That might apply if Luck wasn't playing with and against 4 1st ballot HOF'rs! Let alone possibly 2 of the top 5 Greatest QB in NFL history. Peyton Brady Rodgers Brees Besides Mahomes who from this Era would have cracked that top 4, let's be real? What era is Luck an all pro then lol? So many excuses Edited November 5, 2023 by CP3MVP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 19 hours ago, KhanYouDigIt said: Top 6 doesn’t count as a candidate at the halfway mark? News to me. Considering the award is usually a landslide no. Nick bosa finished 6th in mvp voting last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 19 hours ago, iknowcool said: This is making a LOT of assumptions. Colts made 1 AFC Championship game under Andrew Luck and lost 7-45. The year before they lost 22-43 in the Divisional Round. In Luck's final playoff game they lost 13-31 in the Divisional Round to the Chiefs. And keep in mind Andrew Luck was 29 years old by the time that final loss happened. There is nothing at all that suggests the Colts under Luck were on track to be the Chiefs biggest threat. There is nothing that suggests the Colts were on track to be as good or better than the Bengals or Bills. Hell, are we even sure Andrew Luck was better than Josh Allen? Because I don't think he is/was. Yeah Luck was in his prime when he retired and I don’t see him getting significantly better if he kept playing. He be hovering 5-10 ish range which is fine. But I expect more from a “generational” QB talent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted November 13, 2023 Author Share Posted November 13, 2023 Personally, I blame the game-planning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2023: Baker Mayfield - 9 games | 64.6% | 2277 totYards | 14td : 5to | 93.7rtg Trevor Lawrence - 9 games | 67.3% | 2343 totYards | 9td : 10to | 89.3rtg 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHARMON9 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 I'm surprised there isn't bust talk coming for Trevor yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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