5 UP 5 Down Week 9 vs Titans

[JustPlainNasty]

Up 

1. Broderick Jones - was easy money to know the run game would be affected positively and significantly with him in and Chuks out. 

2. Cam Heyward - just having Cam back is worth the 2 spot here.

3. Jaylen Warren - under the radar rock star

4. First drive TD, Canada coming down to the sidelines and all the changes they made to be better. 

5. Kenny Pickett - I realize some of those throws made you go WTF Kenny, but dude played with an injury 4 days later that most guys these days seems to take several weeks off for. I for one am very appreciative cause if I had to watch Trubisky play I think I would've vomitted. 

Bonus: It was nice as Im sure everyone here would agree to see Washington get that catch and conversion. He doesnt need to be every down, but he needs to be utilized situationally. 

 

Down

1. Holcomb injury - I knew he was in pain but I didn't realize it was as bad as its sounding. I thought bad bruise or dislocated knee cap. By the sounds of Tomlin and the cart/air cast it sounds a lot worse.

2. Just always seems to be something impeding the success of this offense. I think they are primed to be better but always something in the way ...kennys ribs tonight

3. JPJ penalties.. have to put them here but Im certain most of this growing pains were just gonna have to deal with. 

4. Isaac at times..losing quickly. 

5. I had to work more during this game than I hoped, on what was supposed to be my day off. But it was a good day all around. 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by JustPlainNasty

[3rivers]

UP

1. Warren - difference maker and gives the team a spark. 

2. Cam and DL - he makes the unit better

3. Alex

4. Dionte with the late hands catch (nice one) and a TD. 

5. Benching chuks, getting canada on the sideline and somewhat more tolerable offence

1.b Jones, much better and the run game vs a good run defence got  169y and 5.75ypc

bench a player and get a spark. There could be a few more eventually (Kazee) and with similar results.

 

down

1. still too many issues with the offence for the first half of the game

2. kazee - that missed tackle late in the game and several other plays - they have to get him off the field next

3. refs -  I didn't care for them overall, but it could be a blessing as well to get the team to clean up their game

4. al michaels  - not much enthusiasm anymore, and this game went to the wire

5. pass defence - Levis moved the ball but I have a feeling he is going to be good anyways , so wait and see

6. Holcomb injury - I never watched the play, probably /hope not to but the air cast isn't a good sign 

7. Rush dropped the INT

8. they brought najee in near the GL after Warren made those nice plays to get us there then they pull him . Just let Warren get the TD. 

 

[warfelg]

So @JustPlainNasty I like your up/downs a lot so I'm going to just piggy back my thoughts off of them.

6 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Up 

1. Broderick Jones - was easy money to know the run game would be affected positively and significantly with him in and Chuks out. 

I said it in game but he's just a born offensive lineman.  You can tell.  He's got the mean streak, is a mountain of a man, but moves like someone half his size.  He's still our LTOTF but for him any reps are great reps IMO at the moment.

6 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

2. Cam Heyward - just having Cam back is worth the 2 spot here.

He's just so important and we just need his replacement to get up to speed (Benton).  I still think we need more at IDL but I truly think we're much closer than we think to rebuilding the DL.

6 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

3. Jaylen Warren - under the radar rock star

He's good, and I think he's one of those guys who will always be a stud as a #2 but just not super clicking as the #1.  He still keeps facing lighter boxes and getting slightly less YAC than Najee.  I think with it you saw the same thing with both teams where the lead back is the less explosive one.  Najee reminds me of a poor man's Henry with a worse OL, where he needs to get up to speed to be unstoppable but will come with a ton of 2-4 yard rushes.  Then the backup comes in and gets the lighter load.

6 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

4. First drive TD, Canada coming down to the sidelines and all the changes they made to be better. 

I hope this change is permanent. 

6 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

5. Kenny Pickett - I realize some of those throws made you go WTF Kenny, but dude played with an injury 4 days later that most guys these days seems to take several weeks off for. I for one am very appreciative cause if I had to watch Trubisky play I think I would've vomitted. 

Same.  I said it in game that I think we've been really spoiled.

First off it's been near 20 years since we had to develop a QB.  This is very much what it was looking like for Ben.  Struggles, close games, leaning on the run game, defense winning games for us.  It's like we forgot that QB's don't come into the league finished products.  I mean hell look at Lamar - take the running out and you'll realize in year 6, YEAR 6, he's finally starting to come around as a passer and making NFL quality throws and reads to WR's.

On top of that, we were really spoiled by Ben because no one quite played hurt the way Ben did.  It's 100% normal to see QB's have some sort of performance impact by having and injury.  What Ben could do injured and as banged up as he would be was not normal at all.  Just this year Kenny had a bone bruise in his knee which is likely still not healed and and that rib injury that has no chance of being even 10% healed. (Plus I think that Ben was a drama queen an played up his injuries far worse than they really were)

6 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Down

1. Holcomb injury - I knew he was in pain but I didn't realize it was as bad as its sounding. I thought bad bruise or dislocated knee cap. By the sounds of Tomlin and the cart/air cast it sounds a lot worse.

I saw it happen in real time.  I wouldn't be shocked by hearing: Broken leg, torn patellar tendon, or torn ACL, MCL, PCL.

6 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

2. Just always seems to be something impeding the success of this offense. I think they are primed to be better but always something in the way ...kennys ribs tonight

Story of this franchise for years now.  Always some injury just holding them back.

6 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

3. JPJ penalties.. have to put them here but Im certain most of this growing pains were just gonna have to deal with. 

They are, and I tell you what, I think that some of those calls last night were the very "by the book" that aren't always called that he needs to get better at.

6 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

4. Isaac at times..losing quickly. 

Hes a good tandem block guy who's not getting the support he needs.

6 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

5. I had to work more during this game than I hoped, on what was supposed to be my day off. But it was a good day all around. 

This sucks.

[bigben07MVP]

7 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Up 

1. Broderick Jones - was easy money to know the run game would be affected positively and significantly with him in and Chuks out. 

2. Cam Heyward - just having Cam back is worth the 2 spot here.

3. Jaylen Warren - under the radar rock star

4. First drive TD, Canada coming down to the sidelines and all the changes they made to be better. 

5. Kenny Pickett - I realize some of those throws made you go WTF Kenny, but dude played with an injury 4 days later that most guys these days seems to take several weeks off for. I for one am very appreciative cause if I had to watch Trubisky play I think I would've vomitted. 

Bonus: It was nice as Im sure everyone here would agree to see Washington get that catch and conversion. He doesnt need to be every down, but he needs to be utilized situationally. 

 

Down

1. Holcomb injury - I knew he was in pain but I didn't realize it was as bad as its sounding. I thought bad bruise or dislocated knee cap. By the sounds of Tomlin and the cart/air cast it sounds a lot worse.

2. Just always seems to be something impeding the success of this offense. I think they are primed to be better but always something in the way ...kennys ribs tonight

3. JPJ penalties.. have to put them here but Im certain most of this growing pains were just gonna have to deal with. 

4. Isaac at times..losing quickly. 

5. I had to work more during this game than I hoped, on what was supposed to be my day off. But it was a good day all around. 

 

Really good list. Only thing I would disagree with is I think JPJ was a net positive. I can’t remember the last time I watched a Steelers corner legit follow an opposing team’s WR1 all over the field and lock him up like JPJ did Hopkins last night. Hopkins is no longer in his prime but he absolutely torched the Falcons D with Levis just last week. 

JPJ is a physical, grabby corner. He’s going to get flagged a lot in his career, but you take the good with the bad. He’s already great at being subtle with his little grabs and tugs and he’s 8 weeks in to his rookie season. I suspect he will continue to learn and the flags will decrease as he gains experience.

I am more worried about the tackling than the penalties. But I am really excited about Porter’s future. I think we have a #1 corner for the next 8-10 years on our hands.

[August4th]

keeping kenny clean is a up for me and now he has a break to heal up

[Dcash4]

Kenny was definitely hindered by the injury, but we can't just sweep under the rug that he has been horribly inaccurate this year either. Injury or not, some of those misses were just more of the same. He ranks 31st in the NFL in off target throw percentage and 10th in bad throw percentage. The off-target one is concerning as the difference between 31st and 30th is 6% points and that next person is Josh Dobbs. Last year he ranked 26th and 9th in those respective categories, so he actually took a step back. 

We have to acknowledge both. I am sure the rib injury hindered some of his ability to really drive the ball, like the miss to DJ where he sailed it early. But there's also the continued issue of reacting late and missing George on a 3-5 yard crosser that we have seen all year. If it's not the first pre-snap read, Kenny struggles. We saw it again last night -- injury or not. 

- Broderick Jones was great. I just want to know what the plan is now. I didn't dislike the player getting reps, I hated the process that has gone into this. He once again showed he should be playing over either of our tackles and I'm not sure if we all caught it again last night, but Dan Moore is awful. Find any service you want, he ranks at the bottom for tackles. What's the plan there? Hopefully, this wasn't a one game sample size to teach Chuks some lesson. Jones CANNOT go back to the bench. Personally, I would move Chuks back over to his original place on the left and tell him and Moore to figure it out...but I really hope they don't continue to mess with Jones. Leave him and let him grow somewhere. 

- Generally, I think flexibility in the backend is good, but holy smokes we have a lot of guys playing a lot of places back there. Rush played in the slot and some CF S. Peterson played every single position. Porter followed Dhop. Neal lined up at corner a couple times to jam. This is out of necessity, but man I hope we can settle some things down back there. 

[August4th]

can kenny's inconsistent accuracy and mental process be fixed? Josh Allen was a terrible thrower his 1st few years but now rarely throws off target passes. Kenny is no Josh allen, but kenny with good consistent accuracy can start in this league

Edited November 3, 2023 by August4th

[jebrick]

Chuks can stay in the doghouse as far as I'm concerned.  It was against a poor defense but Jones really solidified one side.

[Dcash4]

1 hour ago, August4th said:

can kenny's inconsistent accuracy and mental process be fixed? Josh Allen was a terrible thrower his 1st few years but now rarely throws off target passes. Kenny is no Josh allen, but kenny with good consistent accuracy can start in this league

IMO, the answer is likely no for a couple of reasons.

1) the things you are asking him to do better are incredible difficult to improve. You are asking his brain to move faster and accuracy is kind of a yes/no thing. Not that he cannot get more consistent, but it's likely he never takes a jump. 

2) With those two things, his experience is working against him. Age is always hammered, but that isn't the issue. He has played for a long time in a system that does similar things to what he is asked to do now. None of these things are new to him. He was a 4 year starter where he played with and against some pro players, within a system that carries over a lot of similar principals. There are just certain things that if he was gonna be better at, he likely would have shown the growth by now. 

Personally, I think a large part of the Josh Allen growth is misunderstood. The dude was clay to mold. He started 25 games in a small time school, in a small time conference, against very few NFL talents, and alongside none of them. He did not play in an NFL style offense in any way and he wasn't asked to do NFL like things. He was just such an unknown. He is doing things in the NFL that he was simply never asked to do in college. And that's the big difference IMO between a guy like Kenny and Josh. Josh had a high level of variance because most of his game was unknown, but for Kenny we are asking him to simply be better at things we have seen him do for years. 

It's why I struggle with Kenny "development" and the idea of holding on. There just isn't a lot of unknown there to develop and the areas that you would like to see a jump in are areas that are incredible hard to greatly improve. 

[bigben07MVP]

I’m not sure if this is a hot take or not but I genuinely think Broderick is our best O-Lineman right now. Seumalo has been solid and show great flashes but not exactly as consistent as you would like. Daniels to me is an O-Lineman who you just don’t really notice at all, but that’s a good thing. Broderick is a legit difference maker and has not had any plays blow up because of him yet. 

[jebrick]

21 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

IMO, the answer is likely no for a couple of reasons.

1) the things you are asking him to do better are incredible difficult to improve. You are asking his brain to move faster and accuracy is kind of a yes/no thing. Not that he cannot get more consistent, but it's likely he never takes a jump. 

2) With those two things, his experience is working against him. Age is always hammered, but that isn't the issue. He has played for a long time in a system that does similar things to what he is asked to do now. None of these things are new to him. He was a 4 year starter where he played with and against some pro players, within a system that carries over a lot of similar principals. There are just certain things that if he was gonna be better at, he likely would have shown the growth by now. 

Personally, I think a large part of the Josh Allen growth is misunderstood. The dude was clay to mold. He started 25 games in a small time school, in a small time conference, against very few NFL talents, and alongside none of them. He did not play in an NFL style offense in any way and he wasn't asked to do NFL like things. He was just such an unknown. He is doing things in the NFL that he was simply never asked to do in college. And that's the big difference IMO between a guy like Kenny and Josh. Josh had a high level of variance because most of his game was unknown, but for Kenny we are asking him to simply be better at things we have seen him do for years. 

It's why I struggle with Kenny "development" and the idea of holding on. There just isn't a lot of unknown there to develop and the areas that you would like to see a jump in are areas that are incredible hard to greatly improve. 

 

Thus low ceiling/high floor for KP

Allen had mechanical issues to fix.  KP has some issues to fix and I would have thought we would see some improvement in year 2.  He gets happy feet in the pocket. Tend to move left in the pocket.  Bails on good pockets.

We finally got to see him climb the pocket yesterday but he missed the throw ( the high throw to Pickens on the crosser).  And he finally got a running game.

Edited November 3, 2023 by jebrick

[warfelg]

Really random but I was looking at it. For his career, Allen is only 1 point higher a completion percentage than Pickett. He’s at 71% this year and without that he’s be lower than Pickett. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by warfelg

[JustPlainNasty]

44 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

IMO, the answer is likely no for a couple of reasons.

1) the things you are asking him to do better are incredible difficult to improve. You are asking his brain to move faster and accuracy is kind of a yes/no thing. Not that he cannot get more consistent, but it's likely he never takes a jump. 

2) With those two things, his experience is working against him. Age is always hammered, but that isn't the issue. He has played for a long time in a system that does similar things to what he is asked to do now. None of these things are new to him. He was a 4 year starter where he played with and against some pro players, within a system that carries over a lot of similar principals. There are just certain things that if he was gonna be better at, he likely would have shown the growth by now. 

Personally, I think a large part of the Josh Allen growth is misunderstood. The dude was clay to mold. He started 25 games in a small time school, in a small time conference, against very few NFL talents, and alongside none of them. He did not play in an NFL style offense in any way and he wasn't asked to do NFL like things. He was just such an unknown. He is doing things in the NFL that he was simply never asked to do in college. And that's the big difference IMO between a guy like Kenny and Josh. Josh had a high level of variance because most of his game was unknown, but for Kenny we are asking him to simply be better at things we have seen him do for years. 

It's why I struggle with Kenny "development" and the idea of holding on. There just isn't a lot of unknown there to develop and the areas that you would like to see a jump in are areas that are incredible hard to greatly improve. 

Accuracy was not really an issue for Kenny in college to my recollection at least his senior year. Is he Tom Brady accurate no, but he is not Lamar Jackson / Josh Allen inaccurate. 

My biggest concern for Kenny is his frame and durability. Id like to see him continue to get thicker if at all possible, he's gonna get hit no matter how good he is and the harder he is to throw around the better. Of course the offset is loss of mobility, of course you want the "growth" to be gradual if possible. I think he is a tough kid, but can he legit stand up to it? If he is concerned about staying healthy and not getting hit then he is going to lose a big part of what I think has shown he is special, he is willing to stare down the gun barrel when necessary. Few QBs, even the ones many claim to be something worthwhile are not really willing and able to do that. Tell me the first time you see Kyler Murray do that, it is also the major concern I have with Caleb Williams (for examples).

The more and more I watch this offense and Kenny the more and more I realize and remind myself that it is probably driven in Kennys head not to turn the ball over and the chance of winning is like 85% or whatever the number is. Until they take the leash off in the 4th quarter when its absolutely necessary. It is the game theory. It was really similar with Ben to a degree as well. Don't lose the game for us while we continue to develop. I think the problem with it is that you develop just as many conservative / to a degree weak habits as you do good habits. 

Those couple throws this game were disheartening especially the Pickens lead..uggh. oh and the rollout to Connor that should've been thrown earlier that instead of 3-4 yds ended up with nothing. Part of it may be that they get so few reps because of their lack of success that he tries to be perfect / no mistakes. Chicken or the egg. Hopefully the run game continues to blossom or just be similar and some of that weight can be alleviated that its a pass conversion by him or nothing. I mean if one thing has been abysmal for years its been the running game long before Kenny Pickett dawned a Steelers jersey. 

I also wonder at times if our defense is too good/disruptive to practice against. I know that sounds lame but if in practice you never really develop a rhythm / confidence because of what could and does happen then you'd tend to be conservative. You say well Ben and B's did it...but when our defense was great our offense really wasn't...and when our offense was great our defense was at one of its lowest levels in years in as far as being able to rely on to close it down.  Just a thought in the development of a young player. 

Most young QBs that are successful are helped by being able to lean on a run game. To this point we couldn't get out of our own way in that area. Lot easier when you can lean on the opposing defense having to pray that they can stop D Henry somehow bring up safeties etc and that rb still succeeds. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by JustPlainNasty

[3rivers]

6 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

JPJ is a physical, grabby corner. He’s going to get flagged a lot in his career, but you take the good with the bad. He’s already great at being subtle with his little grabs and tugs and he’s 8 weeks in to his rookie season. I suspect he will continue to learn and the flags will decrease as he gains experience.

I see the grabby ways as fixable. Thats coaching and time, so see how that plays out. 

 

2 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

My biggest concern for Kenny is his frame and durability

this is where elite OL and run game and OC helps.  And  that means no big contract for najee and chuks is gone, take that would be spending and get real on the OL . Semo was a start as was Jones, but a C and another OT would get closer to ideal

2 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Until they take the leash off in the 4th quarter when its absolutely necessary. It is the game theory.

I recently concluded this as well. It's the way this team will be by the looks of it. If they do get off to a good start, then so be it, but expect close games and the closers would be KP and then TJ and Alex. Not bad if you think of it, especially since KP appears clutch and we know about TJ and Alex. Too bad it's usually unwatchable for the first half and then some but thats the 23' steelers.  We would prefer  a team that plays like that most of the time but it ain't happenin.

2 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Hopefully the run game continues to blossom or just be similar and some of that weight can be alleviated that its a pass conversion by him or nothing.

the run game is so important yet this organization hasn't treated it as such in recent times.  Last night I wouldn't have though that Titans were a good front because of how Jones and company did. The OL is THAT crucial but will this organization finally close the OL in24 with a new C and challenging OT?   Warren  is more suited for this team and another back like him would be great or perhaps a quicker RB. When 26 returns and has this iteration of the OL blocking, it  could be a pleasant shock.

 

2 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

you can lean on the opposing defense having to pray that they can stop D Henry somehow bring up safeties etc and that rb still succeeds. 

or you have a single ILB named Roberts (or Spillane)  knock henry back and lets him know what he will have to endure the entire night.  The commentators didn't  mention that play and no replay but I saw it. The FO replaced finesse ILB (bush)  with a hard hitting tackler and it's much appreciated

2 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Most young QBs that are successful are helped by being able to lean on a run game. To this point we couldn't get out of our own way in that area. Lot easier when you can lean on the opposing defense having to pray that they can stop D Henry somehow bring up safeties etc and that rb still succeeds. 

no doubt about it. When Lamar was mvp he had the best run offence.  History has a track record to back up what you mentioned. This FO needs to get the OL as good as they can and go from there.   They could trade chuks and get a UFA  and then draft a player or perhaps draft both. Then use UFA for proven players at safety and CB

[Ray Reed]

I gotta be honest 

As a Ravens fan it’s absolutely maddening how often Tomlin wins games he shouldn’t haha. There’s something to be said for that. It’s honestly impressive and infuriating to us folks down here by the bay.