Pats 2024 Draft.

[Nex_Gen]

Feeling hopeful and optimistic with this draft class at the forefront. Only main gripe is they came out of it with no real solution at LT. Looks like it will be another season of Russian Roulette up front again.

[LD696]

5 hours ago, Soko said:

Maye gets compared to Josh Allen a lot, but I think physically he’s closer to Herbert, with Allen’s mentality in terms of taking shots/running it. We’ll all be happy if he ends up anywhere close to those two (and not Mitch Trubisky lol). I think Maye’s going to go through similar lumps as young Josh did too, who didn’t really light things up right away like Herbert did. I’m okay with sitting him, but I’m not against having him play at some point in 2024 either, if he can handle it. As long as it’s not forced and the offense isn’t disastrous, I could back it. Drake’s physical and mental makeup seem much more resilient than Mac’s ever was, I don’t see him getting frazzled beyond repair.

Assuming that Brian Da Ball played as large role in developing Allen as some think he did, who do you see doing the same for Maye? It was a while since AvP had to coach a QB just starting out in the NFL (2010 Josh Freeman, his 2nd year).

[LD696]

5 hours ago, jofos said:

Just remember those people were happy when they were boarding the Titanic as well. j/k

Ha, nice

[Hunter2_1]

Bell is a nice value pick that late! Nice.

 

well we aren’t going to be on anyone’s “won the draft” list, which are generally a load of BS anyway. But some good and some bad in this draft, for me. 

I like the Maye pick, and I believe in him (I don’t believe in our OL though)

I like the WRs picked in Polk and Baker. Polk is a slight reach and Baker is a slight steal. But overall, I like the players. Praying Polk isn’t another NKeal.

I hate the Offensive Linemen picked. They are reaches. We have about a thousand guards and no tackles. 
 

 

[Soko]

7 minutes ago, LD696 said:

Assuming that Brian Da Ball played as large role in developing Allen as some think he did, who do you see doing the same for Maye? It was a while since AvP had to coach a QB just starting out in the NFL (2010 Josh Freeman, his 2nd year).

Have to assume he played a big part in that, for sure. It’s a combo of things, though. I wouldn’t say it’s all DaBoll or all Josh or all [insert Bills QB coach]. Allen’s growth from the prototypical toolbox into the the QB he is today is so unprecedented that I’m not sure any one deserves the lion’s share of credit.

Who developed Lamar Jackson? Not Greg Roman, lol. Who developed Hurts? Or Watson? My point is that, no, the staff doesn’t have that proven QB guru on board right now. But I don’t necessarily believe that every QB needs one of those specifically in order to develop. 

And even though I do expect early Josh Allen-esque lumps for Drake Maye, I don’t think Maye is coming in nearly as raw as Josh was either. People forget Josh was coming out of a small school and couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn. He completely re-tooled himself. Drake’s not going to have to burn it down to rebuild, not to that extent.

We have to see how things roll. We don’t really know anything about this coaching staff offensively, so I think it’s premature to say that certain things (like Maye sitting for a full year) absolutely need to/don’t need to happen. Do I think the staff’s said and done the right things to this point about Jacoby being the bridge, playing the long game, moving Maye along slowly? Yes. Do I think Maye could the ground running and be an outright better QB than Jacoby in camp? I think that’s possible, yes. But we’ll have to see. Whatever the staff goes with is fine by me, as long as they’re not forcing it. If Maye’s not ready, let him sit. If the offense is historically bad, consider keeping him shelved (although I believe that outcome would be a much larger indictment on the coaches than the players). 

[Soko]

Those thinking that Maye would be ruined by the talent on the offense are kind of glossing over that the talent in Mac’s rookie season wasn’t really all that much better, if better at all. Like, from Mac Y1 to Mac Y3, the talent’s mostly gone unchanged, yet the results got worse and worse. That to me indicates a coaching issue, which jives with the changes made on the offensive staff in Y2 and Y3. Not that the talent was good or even solid, but the offense wasn’t absolute piss poor in 2021 either. 

There’s a new staff in town. Let’s see how it goes. 

The idea of breaking a rookie QB, barring truly horrendous circumstances, was always overstated, IMO. If a QB gets permanently broken by taking some lumps, then I question their mental toughness at the QB position. Goff went through it. Allen went through it. Peyton had it rough. Burrow got killed (but had weapons). Same with Watson. Geno’s not broken. Alex Smith didn’t break. Tua didn't (somehow). The offense needs to get better in order for the team (and Maye) to find success, but as far as being broken goes? Meh.

[LD696]

Hot damn, either NFL's combine tracker site is broken, or really NONE of the WR/TE/CB/OL they drafted ran the 3-cone and shuttle. They were all explosive jumpers though. Complete 180 in what they are looking at.

[Hunter2_1]

Drake Maye - A

This depends where you land on him as a prospect. Some people have him closer to Trubisky, some have him closer to Herbert. I’m in the latter camp, so that and our desperate need for a QB, I am over the moon. Our lack of talent around him isnt considered here, grading in a vacuum. 
 

Ja’Lynn Polk - B

a whiff of a reach, but again, we are desperate for this type of player and I think he’s a good’un. We need a WR that can make contested catches and have reliable hands for our new QB.

 

Caedan Wallace -  D

Nope. Apparently he can play “every spot” on the line. Which probably means he can’t play in any spot in the NFL. He’s quite light and athletic, but he’s mostly played at RT - the spot on the line that is actually OK with Onwenu. It’s a classic reach for “need”.

 

Layden Robinson - D

The player we need on the line is a LT. We have so many guards, and many that were drafted recently. Fine, this regime didn’t draft them, but we have 680 guards and Okorafor at LT. Another reach.

 

Javon Baker - A

We needed a WR who can separate, burn past man, get himself open and get up to the ball. I think Baker can do that! Probably our best pick? Great value here too, with most having 3rd round grades.

 

Marcellas Dial - C

Not really sure. Relying on write ups for this one. Seems meh to me. Good physical corner who can slow WRs down that way, but can’t diagnose plays before they happen and can be fooled. 
 

Joe Milton - D

why?

 

Jaheim Bell - B+
 

Love this pick here! Great value. Won’t be used to block, but he’s a piece that Van Pelt can hopefully move around and get creative with. 
 

Overall - C

For me personally, it was a roller coaster draft. Highs and lows. I think it’s going to be a very divisive draft class. Some of us are over the moon, some of us hate it. For me, I’m in the middle. 

[m haynes]

3 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Bell is a nice value pick that late! Nice.

 

well we aren’t going to be on anyone’s “won the draft” list, which are generally a load of BS anyway. But some good and some bad in this draft, for me. 

I like the Maye pick, and I believe in him (I don’t believe in our OL though)

I like the WRs picked in Polk and Baker. Polk is a slight reach and Baker is a slight steal. But overall, I like the players. Praying Polk isn’t another NKeal.

I hate the Offensive Linemen picked. They are reaches. We have about a thousand guards and no tackles. 
 

 

I'll be the first to say I didn't really know both OL picks however I have to believe that they did there homework on both. I'm also not a fan generally, picking for need however they had to with this draft because the offense is pathetic and they had no choice. They had to make changes or they would be stuck at the bottom and never get back to the playoffs.

Many are saying they missed on other OL with higher grades however I don't see it based on what I looked at. They all had flaws and I'm glad they past on everyone of them.  The one that sticks out is Kingsley Suamataia. Up until a week age I would say he was the one however that change. IMO he will never play OT in the NFL as a starter. He is a OG. He to small and his game doesn't translate in the NFL. I'm not going to break down all the OT's the Pats passed on but I will say this. I laugh when the Fins took Paul. IMO he a bust, timber !!!

I have a certain way of looking at OL players and if they are going to make it in the NFL.  I look at the waste down, do they have a solid base "big butt", can they move their feet, can they slide their feet and keep their balance. If they do and if the team has a good OL coach they have a chance. I see both Caedan Wallace and Layden Robinson having a chance. Based on what I look for they fit the profile. 

Side note I guess going to Pats training camp when I was young and see John Hannah has a major influence the way I look at OL.  Damn he was jaw dropping see him up close. And one more player at the time was Shelby Jordan. He made Hannah look small !!!!!!!! He was huge.

Also I could care less what the Bucky's say or what the Pats have on the current roster at the OL position. The reason, I think they all need to be replaced. I know they are young however based on what I look at/for they didn't meet the standard.  Nick name for Strange -Pancake, Sow - helicopter.

The only ones on the line are Wenu and Andrews. Also I would try Strange at center where is size and strength won't be a problem and his athletic ability fits the position. 

 

[Nex_Gen]

On 4/26/2024 at 9:42 AM, Nex_Gen said:

You're right. Perhaps not so much Buffalo since they allowed 3 teams in front of them to take WRs, but CAR curiously swapping with BUF right in front of NE definitely tells me CAR was worried about the Patriots coming back in (per Jerod Mayo) to grab Legette. I imagine a scenario where NE was on the phone with BUF. Then BUF tells CAR, "Hey, we've got NE on the line. If you don't swap with us, we're swapping with them." BUF probably takes a marginally less offer to not have to trade with a division rival

Welp...

 

[Soko]

13 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

 

Drake Maye - A

This depends where you land on him as a prospect. Some people have him closer to Trubisky, some have him closer to Herbert. I’m in the latter camp, so that and our desperate need for a QB, I am over the moon. Our lack of talent around him isnt considered here, grading in a vacuum. 
 

Ja’Lynn Polk - B

a whiff of a reach, but again, we are desperate for this type of player and I think he’s a good’un. We need a WR that can make contested catches and have reliable hands for our new QB.

 

Caedan Wallace -  D

Nope. Apparently he can play “every spot” on the line. Which probably means he can’t play in any spot in the NFL. He’s quite light and athletic, but he’s mostly played at RT - the spot on the line that is actually OK with Onwenu. It’s a classic reach for “need”.

 

Layden Robinson - D

The player we need on the line is a LT. We have so many guards, and many that were drafted recently. Fine, this regime didn’t draft them, but we have 680 guards and Okorafor at LT. Another reach.

 

Javon Baker - A

We needed a WR who can separate, burn past man, get himself open and get up to the ball. I think Baker can do that! Probably our best pick? Great value here too, with most having 3rd round grades.

 

Marcellas Dial - C

Not really sure. Relying on write ups for this one. Seems meh to me. Good physical corner who can slow WRs down that way, but can’t diagnose plays before they happen and can be fooled. 
 

Joe Milton - D

why?

 

Jaheim Bell - B+
 

Love this pick here! Great value. Won’t be used to block, but he’s a piece that Van Pelt can hopefully move around and get creative with. 
 

Overall - C

For me personally, it was a roller coaster draft. Highs and lows. I think it’s going to be a very divisive draft class. Some of us are over the moon, some of us hate it. For me, I’m in the middle. 

I think the objective silver lining with the OL picks (regardless of how one might feel on he guys as prospects) is that Wolf and the FO swung on the positions they needed to swing at. Two QBs, two WRs, one OT, one OG. How many years have we watched Bill skip on WR in loaded WR drafts, skip on OT in loaded tackle drafts, skip on TE in loaded TE drafts? Man, it’s just nice to see a team not play games and get players at positions they need.

EDIT: There’s also a long, long list of players who either switched sides or switched OL positions between college/early NFL careers to where they ended up playing. Thats Thuney, Ramcyzk, Solder, Lane, Connor Williams, Wynn, Onwenu, Kolton Miller, Trent Brown, Sewell, Skoronski, Slater, Wirfs. Dude’s got the size, Wolf/AVP/Peters all went to bat saying they think he could play left, he played left at the shrine bowl. I’m not sure where the “only a guard” thought comes from.

Edited April 28 by Soko

[Soko]

1 hour ago, Nex_Gen said:

Welp...

 

I might be happier with Baker/Polk together than Leggette on his own, tbh.

[jofos]

13 hours ago, Soko said:

Have to assume he played a big part in that, for sure. It’s a combo of things, though. I wouldn’t say it’s all DaBoll or all Josh or all [insert Bills QB coach]. Allen’s growth from the prototypical toolbox into the the QB he is today is so unprecedented that I’m not sure any one deserves the lion’s share of credit.

Who developed Lamar Jackson? Not Greg Roman, lol. Who developed Hurts? Or Watson? My point is that, no, the staff doesn’t have that proven QB guru on board right now. But I don’t necessarily believe that every QB needs one of those specifically in order to develop. 

And even though I do expect early Josh Allen-esque lumps for Drake Maye, I don’t think Maye is coming in nearly as raw as Josh was either. People forget Josh was coming out of a small school and couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn. He completely re-tooled himself. Drake’s not going to have to burn it down to rebuild, not to that extent.

We have to see how things roll. We don’t really know anything about this coaching staff offensively, so I think it’s premature to say that certain things (like Maye sitting for a full year) absolutely need to/don’t need to happen. Do I think the staff’s said and done the right things to this point about Jacoby being the bridge, playing the long game, moving Maye along slowly? Yes. Do I think Maye could the ground running and be an outright better QB than Jacoby in camp? I think that’s possible, yes. But we’ll have to see. Whatever the staff goes with is fine by me, as long as they’re not forcing it. If Maye’s not ready, let him sit. If the offense is historically bad, consider keeping him shelved (although I believe that outcome would be a much larger indictment on the coaches than the players). 

People seem to think that Allen was some how awful to start with but that wasn't really the case. His rookie year the team suffered from LeSean McCoy falling apart he ran for less than half his rushing total in 2017, the Bills top WR from 2017 was also gone. 2019 Allen's worst stat was completion % 58.8 for comparison Tom Brady's was 60.8. 

I wish people would stop trying to compare the players drafted to someone in the NFL, Maye is not Allen. They may be similar in size but thats it. Polk and Harry are similar size and speed I don't see that being thrown around.

Edited April 28 by jofos

[Soko]

9 minutes ago, jofos said:

People seem to think that Allen was some how awful to start with but that wasn't really the case. His rookie year the team suffered from LeSean McCoy falling apart he ran for less than half his rushing total in 2017, the Bills top WR from 2017 was also gone. 2019 Allen's worst stat was completion % 58.8 for comparison Tom Brady's was 60.8. 

I wish people would stop trying to compare the players drafted to someone in the NFL, Maye is not Allen. They may be similar in size but thats it. Polk and Harry are similar size and speed I don't see that being thrown around.

2019 wasn’t Allen’s rookie season, you forgetting how he looked in 2018? Allen wasn’t a good QB his rookie season and wasn’t a great one as a sophomore either. Didn’t have a bunch of talent around him, but he was also mediocre. But there was growth and that’s all you could ask for out of a complete project QB in their sophomore season. Y3 he obviously took off. Completion percentage is an interesting stat - wanna know who else had a good completion percentage their rookie year? Mitch Trubisky. Doesn’t mean squat. Sophomore Josh - 32nd in completion percentage, 22nd in passer rating, 18th in TD%, 16th in INT%, 23rd in yards, 23rd in AY/A. He was getting better but didn’t make the jump until Y3.

Maye has more in common with Allen than just their size, which isn’t even all that similar tbh. There’s 20-30lbs separating them, about the same separating Josh and Brady. Maye has the similar tendencies that early Josh had that need to be coached out. Maye’s better when it’s clean than Josh was at the time, but when things break down, so does his footwork. It needs to be coached out of him. No one here’s said Maye is Josh Allen or will be Josh Allen, but there’s obvious similarities in their games. 

[jofos]

3 minutes ago, Soko said:

 

Yes I know that 2018 was his rookie year that was when McCoy fell a part. Showing completion % from 2019 was to say that he was as awful as people say. I don't think any QB be it Allen, Maye, or any random QB should be judged on their rookie year, nor should any player for that matter. A player could have a great year and then teams get tape on them and they are no good after that (see Mac Jones) or they need time to adjust to the difference in their position in the NFL. 

If people keep thinking Maye is going to be Allen they will be disappointed. Maye needs to be Maye. There are a lot of things to work on but if people's expectation is Allen then...