The case for not moving on from Tomlin....this year.

[jebrick]

But will they trade up to get Daniels?  I doubt it so it is mute.

[warfelg]

25 minutes ago, jebrick said:

But will they trade up to get Daniels?  I doubt it so it is mute.

That’s not the part I was talking about. 

[zflairway]

On 12/22/2023 at 3:17 AM, warfelg said:

This is close to what I heard

Jordan Travis as Brock Purdy. Any takers?

[zflairway]

On 12/21/2023 at 1:09 PM, 3rivers said:

if tomlin keep losing to  rookies, it should be a sprint because the coach should be replaced if that keeps happening. 

How are you so sure and what is the point of this comment? I don't care if a HC  can keep a job being Mr.529 . 

the problem is  being a fan of this team and what we have endured for a very long time. Feel  when we should be numb 

this we will never know the extent of. It's easy to pass this off to colbert, but tomlin could have been picking players .

The OL situation is tomlins legacy. Easily half of his tenure he had a bad OL, this year is no different despite the resources for the OL.  He should have replaced cole and Moore and possibly go as far as an in season trade if required.  This is on him, Jones should be at LT, much better than Moore but thats tomlin again.  

Moore, Najee, Adams, Mitch  and cole  are some examples of  'tomlin players' that will start as long as  they can walk. 

The point is Tomlin can coach however long he wants in this league, because he earned that privilege. He's not subjected to the trivialities of the day, such as job security.

The OL situation is a transition from Colbert to Khan, through the dysfunction of the locker room, which caused the entire OL to bolt in a single offseason, which stems from inability at the very top, and lack of faith and structure throughout the pillars (or lack thereof), rippled in iniquity, which is the state of this sorry franchise, known as the era of AR2.

Pretty poor patchwork on the OL, that's why Weidl was brought in to show you what an OL in the NFL looks like nowadays. You can see this from the guys they brought in in pre draft workouts and is a rekindling of flames of the former past. James Daniels is a prime example of a guy not big enough to play OL in this league. Weidl correcting Khan. That offseason is hectic to replace "an entire offense" as in the "OL" in one offseason. They picked up the two best guys money could buy within their budget and drafted Dan Moore. 

They are leaving no stone unturned and to correct your point somewhere in the lost oblivion is Jones should play RT and not left, because of his go go gadget arm ability to side step and get an arm on the defender before he gets an arm on you, which seals gaping lanes for even the loweliest of steed to run through.

Then you can put Seumalo back in his natural RG spot, because he's like 30 pounds shy of prime LG weight. AND then you can look at addressing center, left tackle, and a guard spot, with Herbig and Dan Moore to be competition at the interior positions of the offensive line. 

Patrick Paul as the more professional LT prospect to be the romeo to jones' juliet. Might just be the primary need alongside the interior line with available albeit second rate options alongside the interior line. There's a few good OL prospects and Beaux Limmer might be the Jeff Hartings to Jackson Powers Johnson's Creed Humphrey. And then I'd classify Layden Robinson as a Roman Foster but now I'm just dealing.

 

[3rivers]

OL is a wreck IMO.  Players playing the wrong position and then players playing when they shouldn't be at all.  typical tomlin team  , as half his tenure included a bad OL, his legacy

 

[7DnBrnc53]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:57 PM, zflairway said:

The point is Tomlin can coach however long he wants in this league, because he earned that privilege. He's not subjected to the trivialities of the day, such as job security.

No, he hasn't. He hasn't won a playoff game in forever. The Rooneys are clowns for not getting rid of him. I wouldn't go to the games anymore (if I had tickets) as long as this clown is the HC. 

[3rivers]

10 hours ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

No, he hasn't. He hasn't won a playoff game in forever. The Rooneys are clowns for not getting rid of him. I wouldn't go to the games anymore (if I had tickets) as long as this clown is the HC. 

couldn't have said it better . Amen

[43M]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:57 PM, zflairway said:

The point is Tomlin can coach however long he wants in this league, because he earned that privilege. He's not subjected to the trivialities of the day, such as job security.

This is such an embarrassingly bad take.

What exactly has Tomlin done to earn the right to "coach forever"?     Try to actually answer this question instead of dancing around it like you do with most other questions regarding Tomlin's supposed greatness.

[zflairway]

On 12/25/2023 at 8:58 PM, 7DnBrnc53 said:

No, he hasn't. He hasn't won a playoff game in forever. The Rooneys are clowns for not getting rid of him. I wouldn't go to the games anymore (if I had tickets) as long as this clown is the HC. 

I don't necessarily think that's a fair barometer for success. Take Bruce Bochy, for example, in managing the Padres. He tested the limit, came back down, tested an even higher limit (of success) [in breaking through the barrier (i.e. force or mechanism)], and then when he goes farther than he has ever gone in terms of leading the Padres, they fire him.

What's the expectation? To win the Super Bowl every year.

As the story would go, he went on to lead the San Francisco Giants to three World Series titles and just recently won his fourth World Series.

[zflairway]

20 hours ago, 43M said:

This is such an embarrassingly bad take.

What exactly has Tomlin done to earn the right to "coach forever"?     Try to actually answer this question instead of dancing around it like you do with most other questions regarding Tomlin's supposed greatness.

He is a winner. He wins more than he loses. And I'm sure there's a W-L stat on a percentage base that he finds himself closer to the top than the bottom.

[7DnBrnc53]

5 hours ago, zflairway said:

He is a winner. He wins more than he loses. And I'm sure there's a W-L stat on a percentage base that he finds himself closer to the top than the bottom.

He had a franchise QB and a stacked roster for years. A misconception is that winning seasons automatically make a coach great. Not true. Look at Dan Reeves in Denver when Elway was carrying him. 

Also, here's a real old school college example: In the 60's, Bill Peterson had a 62-42-11 record at Florida State from 1960-70, with four bowl appearances. However, he had great assistants who went on to success in college and pros (Don James, Joe Gibbs, Bobby Bowden, Bill Parcells, etc...). 

In 1972, he was hired by the Oilers as their new HC, and was quickly exposed. If Mike Tomlin went to a situation like that (instead of the Steelers, where he inherited Cowher's leaders and roster), he also would be exposed. 

[zflairway]

2 hours ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

He had a franchise QB and a stacked roster for years. A misconception is that winning seasons automatically make a coach great. Not true. Look at Dan Reeves in Denver when Elway was carrying him. 

Also, here's a real old school college example: In the 60's, Bill Peterson had a 62-42-11 record at Florida State from 1960-70, with four bowl appearances. However, he had great assistants who went on to success in college and pros (Don James, Joe Gibbs, Bobby Bowden, Bill Parcells, etc...). 

In 1972, he was hired by the Oilers as their new HC, and was quickly exposed. If Mike Tomlin went to a situation like that (instead of the Steelers, where he inherited Cowher's leaders and roster), he also would be exposed. 

Mike been doing this for 17 years and is 3rd on the active win pct list behind Bill Belichick (HOF) and Andy Reid (HOF) 

[3rivers]

2 hours ago, zflairway said:

Mike been doing this for 17 years and is 3rd on the active win pct list behind Bill Belichick (HOF) and Andy Reid (HOF) 

how is/was  BB without Brady

how is Andy without Mahomes

A great QB helps  enough IMO 

Gibbs won 3 SB's with 3 different QB's - I would say that is a great coach. Even he didn't have a great run last time around.  

 

I agree with @7DnBrnc53

[7DnBrnc53]

4 hours ago, 3rivers said:

how is/was  BB without Brady

how is Andy without Mahomes

A great QB helps  enough IMO 

Gibbs won 3 SB's with 3 different QB's - I would say that is a great coach. Even he didn't have a great run last time around.  

 

I agree with @7DnBrnc53

Thanks, but here's the thing: I see Belichick and Brady as a perfect marriage. However, Bill had the 11-5 season without Brady in 2008, and he started 3-1 in 2016 with Jimmy G and Brisket. Now, the last four years haven't been great (they don't have the talent that they used to), but he still out-coached Tomlin a few weeks ago despite that lack of talent, and he just led the Pats to a win over a Denver team with Sean Payton that needed a win for playoff hopes. 

Also, people like to point out Belichick's lack of success in Cleveland. The 1990 Browns were way worse than the 1999 Patriots (who started 6-2 before collapsing). Belichick had the Browns in the playoffs by his fourth season with a mediocre version of Vinny Testaverde (who was 13-31 for 144 yards and two INT's in the playoff loss at Pittsburgh). Then, the next year, The jerk (Modell) announced a move when the Browns were 4-4, which seemed to kill their competitive fire after that (they only won one more game the rest of the year). 

As for Andy Reid, he went to a SB with Donovan McNabb and Team Obliterator (TO) in 2004. So, the potential has always been there. 

Both of these guys are way better than Tomlin, in my eyes. Mark Madden said that Tomlin has been garbage the last 13 years without Cowher's culture and leaders. I think that's a fair assessment. 

[3rivers]

3 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

Thanks, but here's the thing: I see Belichick and Brady as a perfect marriage. However, Bill had the 11-5 season without Brady in 2008, and he started 3-1 in 2016 with Jimmy G and Brisket. Now, the last four years haven't been great (they don't have the talent that they used to), but he still out-coached Tomlin a few weeks ago despite that lack of talent, and he just led the Pats to a win over a Denver team with Sean Payton that needed a win for playoff hopes. 

no doubt he really schooled tomlin once again.  But as bad and usual that is, I still remember BB when he was with the Browns  as well, just for some reference .  It wasn't he best situation for BB, but  thats what coaches have to face sometimes.  He had a good pass blocking OL though and a solid defence.

6 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

Both of these guys are way better than Tomlin, in my eyes. Mark Madden said that Tomlin has been garbage the last 13 years without Cowher's culture and leaders. I think that's a fair assessment. 

I was an early tomlin critic here, but not sure I go back 13 years with that view.  He is right about the cowhers players/culture. I don't think it helped with ben running the team and AB going AB either, but that was part of it - tomlin allowed this. HOF QB in his prime, HOF Safety, Dominant OLB  and 2 DPOY's then add AB and Bell for a while with the Munchak OL . Some of those types of players are missing on this roster 

Tomlin can still win with this team IMO (not sure how much but better than they have)  if Mason plays good enough. Keeping Mitch this year cost the team a few games , so imagine the record right now if mitch wasn't here.  The team isn't perfect, but could be competitive anyways. It's not what I would prefer at this stage but this is what we have going on. 

We know what tomlin is, no chance of cowher or Noll type culture thats for sure. Thats the steelers way in recent years, like it or not  as some would say