Draft Discussion 2.0

[candyman93]

I’m okay with AJ if we draft a guy to groom.

[buno67]

3 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I’m okay with AJ if we draft a guy to groom.

Who’s doing the grooming? Hue? Might as welll call that QB as bust. At least Rosen was smart enough to alienate the browns

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

As much as I hate what Hue did this season, I still have a sliver of hope he can right the ship, I was a huge fan of his when he was down here.

Hopefully all he needs is a better qb and a coordinator.

[Mind Character]

1 hour ago, buno67 said:

 

Do you guys trust Hue coaching up and developing a QB we draft that high in the draft. Every QB hue has touched here has regressed as a passer. 

Sorry I don’t want to waste a pick that will bomb. At least with barkley, hue can’t ruin. Heck if they have a RB who was drafted first overall maybe the browns will actually run the ball for once at a consistent rate

 

if Hue is fired, then give me Darnold or Rosen but if Hue is still the coach, give me Barkley

The Question: Can we trust Hue and David Lee to coach up and develop a QB we draft high?

Answer: Let's look at Hue's history up until present. We could go off of gut and popular sentiment or take a look at the record of judgments, behaviors, and coaching that influence QBs when it comes to Hue Jackson.

A short history of Hue's QB coaching.

1. Jake Plummer Arizona State (1995): Jake credits Hue for helping rain in his wild style, improving his mechanics, and growing intellectually at understanding defenses. Made suh an impact on Hue that 22 years later Jake went to the AD in Arizona State this year to suggest Hue be hired ASU if he was fired despite a losing NFL record. "He did a lot for my advancement and evolution as a quarterback," Jake had an up and down career but played some great QB play later in his career. Was thrown to the wolves on the Cardinals with no help and was horrendous from a statistical standpoint. Most believe he had little arm talent but his talents were maximized from a coaching perspective.

With Hue his Junior year, had 17 TDs to 9 INTs but took a serious jump his senior year based on progression in mechanics to finish with 23 TDs to 9 INTs the next year.

 

2. Pat Barnes, California (1996): Under Hue he went from a marginal season to one of the better in all of college football.

• Pre-Hue 1995: 197/362 for 2,685 yards with 17 TD vs 11 INT.
• With Hue 1996: 250/420 for 3,499 yards with 31 TD vs 8 INT.

  Credited Hue as "making me believe I could get to the next level" and "opening my mind to how to really play in the WC offense."

 Had a serious XFL career but did not have the physical characteristics the nfl desired then and despite being name 2nd team all american at QB only behind interestingly Jake Plummer.

3. Carson Palmer, USC (1997-2000): Contrary to popular belief and recency bias where Palmer became the prototypical pro passing prospect, Palmer was an unrefined piece of clay who had to be built from the feet up when arriving at USC. He was so bad that they decided to start a Joe Bauserman type QB named John Fox before handing the position to a raw inaccurate, turnover prone freshman. Carson Palmer credited Hue as being "the Best QB coach I ever had" even though the 2 didn't reunite in the pros until much later. The perfect throwing motion and efficient feet in the pocket Palmer had his final year at USC that made him the top pick.

4. From 2001 to 2007, Hue spent time as RBs coach, Offensive Coordiantor, and Wide receivers coach for various team.

5. Ravens- 2008-2009, Joe Flacco. Until in 2008, he became the QB coach for the Ravens and Joe Flacco. The coaching job Hue did with Flacco was regarded as one of the finest coaching jobs of a rookie QB w/ Ozzie Newsome deeming Hue "teaching worth its weight in gold" and John Harbaugh calling Hue's hire "...a game changer." Harbaugh went on to say "Nobody has more knowledge or has had more success with developing rookie quarterbacks than Hue Jackson has had as a coach. We have seen it firsthand." Flacco would say " He allows you to go out there and play fast, and free, and wants you to go out there and play with emotion and let it all go. I think that his coaching style and his offensive philosophy allows the quarterback to do that." Flacco said under Hue he was able to get over mental hurdles he had coming out of Delaware. Flacco had a lot of confidence, work habit issues (documented as always showing up late until Hue instilled a stringent regimen), and mechanical footwork issues coming out of Delaware. The improvement from year 1 to year 2 led Flacco to an unexpected good rookie year, but a really great follow up second year that is statistically one of Joe Flacco's better careers in his entire career.

6. The Ravens coaching Job earned Hue a shot at offensive coordinator with the raiders as one of the up and coming offensive minds in football. His work as a coordinator earned him a HC job in Oakland for one year in which an undermanned team with Owner/Personnel issues started off fast but due to injury of QBs faultered to 8-8 missing the playoffs. Jason Campbell was headed for a career year statistically before injury and Hue made a trade for Carson Palmer that may have worked out had the whole thing not been blown up (i.e., Carson had many good years left in Arizona after that). Amy Trask and other football execs in Oakland speak unflinchingly positive of Hue's  time there as OC and developer of talent. Al Davis died, Hue was fired.

7. Hue doesn't resurface as a QB coach and OC until 2012/2013 with the Bengals/Andy Dalton. There he does what is thought to be one of the finer jobs maximizing talent by working with Andy Dalton first as QB Coach and OC to help Dalton have a career and what some though was an MVP type season until Dalton gets injured at the end of the season, AJ Mccaron starts, and a series of terrible penalties on the Bengals capsized their season. Without Hue, the entire Bengals operation unraveled last year and his mark was so strong on the organization that fans, ownership alike entertained the possibility of bringing him back there despite his historic role in losing for the Browns.

8. Browns 2016: Hue is hired as HC and hires Pep Hamilton as QB coach. Hue wants Goff (eval correct) and likes Wentz, but relents to the Money Ball trade down that the personnel execs wanted in the first place. Fair compromise ensues and Hue in 1st year coach speak encouragement of the players acquired says "Trust me" when the media and whole football world acts as if Cody Kessler shouldn't even be in the league. Cody plays well despite trash around him and his personal deficiencies. Hue yanks Cody in a game causing the media and fans to think he's ruining the QBs confidence.

9. Browns 2017: Hue wanted Trubisky, Mahomes, and texted Deshaun Watson "to be ready" according to Watson...Hue denied it. He ends up with Kizer and puts all of the offense on his plate to test Kizer's limits early in the season to the fans and media appall. Hue sick of losing makes short sighted judgments that are compounded by  numerous inexplicable turnovers and inaccuracies by Kizer. He yanks Kizer repeatedly because the QB keeps making the same turnover mistakes on back to back plays. Media and fans say he's destroying the QB because QBs are tempermental creatures that don't deserve to sit when they make mistakes even though every other position on the team suffers that fate when they underperform. Most believe now Hue is the worst QB coach/OC in NFL history, shouldn't be anywhere near Cleveland and has to be fired.

-----------------------------------------------------

 

[buno67]

1 minute ago, Mind Character said:

The Question: Can we trust Hue and David Lee to coach up and develop a QB we draft high?

Answer: Let's look at Hue's history up until present. We could go off of gut and popular sentiment or take a look at the record of judgments, behaviors, and coaching that influence QBs when it comes to Hue Jackson.

A short history of Hue's QB coaching.

1. Jake Plummer Arizona State (1995): Jake credits Hue for helping rain in his wild style, improving his mechanics, and growing intellectually at understanding defenses. Made suh an impact on Hue that 22 years later Jake went to the AD in Arizona State this year to suggest Hue be hired ASU if he was fired despite a losing NFL record. "He did a lot for my advancement and evolution as a quarterback," Jake had an up and down career but played some great QB play later in his career. Was thrown to the wolves on the Cardinals with no help and was horrendous from a statistical standpoint. Most believe he had little arm talent but his talents were maximized from a coaching perspective.

With Hue his Junior year, had 17 TDs to 9 INTs but took a serious jump his senior year based on progression in mechanics to finish with 23 TDs to 9 INTs the next year.

 

2. Pat Barnes, California (1996): Under Hue he went from a marginal season to one of the better in all of college football.

• Pre-Hue 1995: 197/362 for 2,685 yards with 17 TD vs 11 INT.
• With Hue 1996: 250/420 for 3,499 yards with 31 TD vs 8 INT.

  Credited Hue as "making me believe I could get to the next level" and "opening my mind to how to really play in the WC offense."

 Had a serious XFL career but did not have the physical characteristics the nfl desired then and despite being name 2nd team all american at QB only behind interestingly Jake Plummer.

3. Carson Palmer, USC (1997-2000): Contrary to popular belief and recency bias where Palmer became the prototypical pro passing prospect, Palmer was an unrefined piece of clay who had to be built from the feet up when arriving at USC. He was so bad that they decided to start a Joe Bauserman type QB named John Fox before handing the position to a raw inaccurate, turnover prone freshman. Carson Palmer credited Hue as being "the Best QB coach I ever had" even though the 2 didn't reunite in the pros until much later. The perfect throwing motion and efficient feet in the pocket Palmer had his final year at USC that made him the top pick.

4. From 2001 to 2007, Hue spent time as RBs coach, Offensive Coordiantor, and Wide receivers coach for various team.

5. Ravens- 2008-2009, Joe Flacco. Until in 2008, he became the QB coach for the Ravens and Joe Flacco. The coaching job Hue did with Flacco was regarded as one of the finest coaching jobs of a rookie QB w/ Ozzie Newsome deeming Hue "teaching worth its weight in gold" and John Harbaugh calling Hue's hire "...a game changer." Harbaugh went on to say "Nobody has more knowledge or has had more success with developing rookie quarterbacks than Hue Jackson has had as a coach. We have seen it firsthand." Flacco would say " He allows you to go out there and play fast, and free, and wants you to go out there and play with emotion and let it all go. I think that his coaching style and his offensive philosophy allows the quarterback to do that." Flacco said under Hue he was able to get over mental hurdles he had coming out of Delaware. Flacco had a lot of confidence, work habit issues (documented as always showing up late until Hue instilled a stringent regimen), and mechanical footwork issues coming out of Delaware. The improvement from year 1 to year 2 led Flacco to an unexpected good rookie year, but a really great follow up second year that is statistically one of Joe Flacco's better careers in his entire career.

6. The Ravens coaching Job earned Hue a shot at offensive coordinator with the raiders as one of the up and coming offensive minds in football. His work as a coordinator earned him a HC job in Oakland for one year in which an undermanned team with Owner/Personnel issues started off fast but due to injury of QBs faultered to 8-8 missing the playoffs. Jason Campbell was headed for a career year statistically before injury and Hue made a trade for Carson Palmer that may have worked out had the whole thing not been blown up (i.e., Carson had many good years left in Arizona after that). Amy Trask and other football execs in Oakland speak unflinchingly positive of Hue's  time there as OC and developer of talent. Al Davis died, Hue was fired.

7. Hue doesn't resurface as a QB coach and OC until 2012/2013 with the Bengals/Andy Dalton. There he does what is thought to be one of the finer jobs maximizing talent by working with Andy Dalton first as QB Coach and OC to help Dalton have a career and what some though was an MVP type season until Dalton gets injured at the end of the season, AJ Mccaron starts, and a series of terrible penalties on the Bengals capsized their season. Without Hue, the entire Bengals operation unraveled last year and his mark was so strong on the organization that fans, ownership alike entertained the possibility of bringing him back there despite his historic role in losing for the Browns.

8. Browns 2016: Hue is hired as HC and hires Pep Hamilton as QB coach. Hue wants Goff (eval correct) and likes Wentz, but relents to the Money Ball trade down that the personnel execs wanted in the first place. Fair compromise ensues and Hue in 1st year coach speak encouragement of the players acquired says "Trust me" when the media and whole football world acts as if Cody Kessler shouldn't even be in the league. Cody plays well despite trash around him and his personal deficiencies. Hue yanks Cody in a game causing the media and fans to think he's ruining the QBs confidence.

9. Browns 2017: Hue wanted Trubisky, Mahomes, and texted Deshaun Watson "to be ready" according to Watson...Hue denied it. He ends up with Kizer and puts all of the offense on his plate to test Kizer's limits early in the season to the fans and media appall. Hue sick of losing makes short sighted judgments that are compounded by  numerous inexplicable turnovers and inaccuracies by Kizer. He yanks Kizer repeatedly because the QB keeps making the same turnover mistakes on back to back plays. Media and fans say he's destroying the QB because QBs are tempermental creatures that don't deserve to sit when they make mistakes even though every other position on the team suffers that fate when they underperform. Most believe now Hue is the worst QB coach/OC in NFL history, shouldn't be anywhere near Cleveland and has to be fired.

-----------------------------------------------------

 

I could care less what hue did prior to the browns. He has shown zero ability to coach a QB. If he truly wanted Goff he should of fault for him. Remember he told us to trust him about Kessler. If he was all about every other QB besides Kizer, again he should of fault for a QB. The most important marriage in the NFL is the coach and QB. Huebris basically told us that whatever QB he was given he would fix or develop. If Kizer wasn’t his guy, he should of rode with Brock because he was the vet. Dude tried to turn McCownn into a coach instead of using him as a QB and McCown goes out and has a darn good season. 

Hue can go pound salt. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, buno67 said:

I could care less what hue did prior to the browns. He has shown zero ability to coach a QB. If he truly wanted Goff he should of fault for him. Remember he told us to trust him about Kessler. If he was all about every other QB besides Kizer, again he should of fault for a QB. The most important marriage in the NFL is the coach and QB. Huebris basically told us that whatever QB he was given he would fix or develop. If Kizer wasn’t his guy, he should of rode with Brock because he was the vet. Dude tried to turn McCownn into a coach instead of using him as a QB and McCown goes out and has a darn good season. 

Hue can go pound salt. 

Huebris???

Literally the most clever thing you’ve ever posted, 10/10, will be stealing and using indefinitely.

[buno67]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Huebris???

Literally the most clever thing you’ve ever posted, 10/10, will be stealing and using indefinitely.

Might be the best nickname for him lol

dude thinks his ish doesn’t stink. All his failures are at the fault of others and not him. Thinks way too highly of himself. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, buno67 said:

Might be the best nickname for him lol

dude thinks his ish doesn’t stink. All his failures are at the fault of others and not him. Thinks way too highly of himself. 

Truly a splendid nickname, so fitting.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

We need to find a guy like Alex Collins, dude is nice.

[Mind Character]

Someone please tell me why AJ Mccaron is so awful??

6ft 3. 220 pounds

He had a 30 TD to 3 INT year at Bama his Junior year surrounded by A++ talent leading to a BCS NC title.

Followed by a 28 and 7 INT at Bama his Senior year surrounded by A++ talent leading to a BCS NC title.

His stock dropped as media reports stated that at the combine he came off as Cocky and Arrogant. " It was reported that teams felt during pre-draft interviews that he came across cocky and over-confident. When asked what his best attribute was during an interview at the combine, McCarron responded, "Winning!"

He had the stigma of being a game manager due to the superior talent around him at Bama.

He also was thought to not have a plus arm.

He had full control of the offense at Bama and understands pro schemes.

When he came out in the draft I did no digging on him and believed what I was told via the sports media and draft rumor mills.

Then, one day last year, when I heard that we might be interested in him I watched all of his pro snaps at the Bengals and watched half of the games his senior year and a handful his Junior year.

I was blown away at his deep ball touch and accuracy; his ability to adjust at the line. Specifically, watch his play in the pros, he's throwing bombs 50 yards down the field dropped in the bucket to AJ Green.

He also gets the ball out fast.

He's a limited athlete that has trouble avoiding the rush.

In summary, those who hate on his ability to be a winning prospect really need to watch the tape.

1. Here's Bucky Brooks breaking down "Why AJ McCarron is Better Than You Think | X's & O's Film Breakdown | NFL Now"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgotbAzeOMM

2. Here's some 2015 Highlights:

 

I'm telling you, Mccaron surrounded by talent is no HOFer or All pro, but he's definitely can get you 8 wins.

I've been on the Mccaron train for over a year as a solid bridge QB that can buy you 2 years of bench time for your young developing QB to watch from the sidelines.

During those 2 years, Mccaron can get you 7-8 games.

[buno67]

@Mind Character

he is just unproven. Also if hue really likes him, something much be wrong with him. If he was truly good, again, hue should of went after him/ wanted him when he first came to Cleveland. Again Huebris thought he was better than what he actually is

[NateDawg]

Trade back from 1 to 3. Get a king’s ransom from the Colts, who will want to jump the Giants for the best QB. Far be it for me to wish Hue upon Darnold. I like the kid too much for that. Go get Minkah/Chubb or Barkley/Chubb it Barkley/Minkah. And have more picks including a 2019 extra 1st. I really want Darnold but what’s the point when Hue is still the guy tutoring him? 

[buno67]

2 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

Trade back from 1 to 3. Get a king’s ransom from the Colts, who will want to jump the Giants for the best QB. Far be it for me to wish Hue upon Darnold. I like the kid too much for that. Go get Minkah/Chubb or Barkley/Chubb it Barkley/Minkah. And have more picks including a 2019 extra 1st. I really want Darnold but what’s the point when Hue is still the guy tutoring him? 

If the colts are doing that, the trade better involve Luck

[mistakey]

as far as im concerned 2017 was an instructive year.  this year we can finally say that even if you have a good enough offensive line, a decent running game and a run defense... your team can definitely go 0-16 if you have an awful quarterback.  say no to the people who want to delay the QB decision

also, now we never have to argue about consistency for consistency sake with jimmy haslam.  this dude is so stubborn and has to prove that he's stable, so he wont fire a coach that goes 0-16.  the next coach that comes in here wont have to worry about job security.

 

the browns suck get me drunk

[mistakey]

like its not even fun anymore
that being said its even less fun watching another team
im stuck wit hthis damn curse
thank god the indians are starting up again soon