Wild Card GDT: Green Bay Packers @ Dallas Cowboys

[matt79511]

To whom it may concern: Dak went 17/21 for 220 yards, 2 TDs and 0 picks (a YPA of 10.5 and a passer rating of 142.1) after the Packers went up by 32 points. Prior to the Packers going up 32 points, he went 24/39 for 183 yards, 1 TD and 2 picks (a YPA of 4.7 and a passer rating of 60.1).

[plan9misfit]

22 minutes ago, Danger said:

Ostensibly you could cut Dak and save 34M in 2024 by June-1sting him. But my biggest wonder is..

Who else do you bring in instead? Kirk Cousins is an older, likely lateral move at best. I think you're best off keeping Dak one more year under whatever head coach you bring in, and it doesn't work out then Dak can go the following season. Dak struggles in big games that aren't against Philadelphia. Why he always plays them so well over the years, I have no answer for you. But aside from those 3 or so games a year as described, he's a no doubt top 10 guy. 

Does a Ben Johnson help Dak get better in those key moments? Or is it simply in Dak's DNA. What happened with the defense tonight too? I didn't manage to catch the game. 

Trey Lance is already on the roster. Roll with him and see if he can play. If not, then draft someone. Or, looks for a sucker team that’s willing to fork over draft picks for Dak and package them for a QB this year. Either way, he and Mike need to go. 

[Dallas94Ware]

@Danger

Trey Lance is only 24 by next season. Immense set of tangible, physical gifts. I'd think he deserves a fair chance at succession from the Dak era.

But you undoubtedly keep Rush as well. And make some sort of draft move or trade for a young player who can use this next season like the ramp onto a freeway - to get up to speed enough where he too deserves a fair chance in the future to at least compete, barring a total failure by Lance and/or Rush. If both are total flakes,you've at the least set yourself up with a quality pick in the 2025 draft to make a splash selection. 

What you don't do is throw money at another veteran. If that is the plan, you may as well pay Prescott and give it another whirl with him for the next handful of seasons. But neither of these situations are ideal for me. There isn't enough money to go around, and right now paying a veteran when you have some high priority contracts due over the next couple years, is just not ideal. The time is ripe to roll the dice with Lance or a rookie, with Rush competing as well. And if Rush needs to open the year because Lance or whomever else isn't yet properly prepared, that is totally fine. But at this point, with QB contracts where they are, paying the veteran - be it Dak or someone else - just doesn't make sense.

It isn't like Tampa Bay where the team was a QB away from brilliance. Coaching has been mediocre. Defense makes splash plays but has been notoriously inconsistent during the same time frame, and has struggled to stop the run or prevent tremendous, game changing down field passes for years now. The run game has been up and down for two seasons now, but now also is missing the grinding workhorse role that they tried to fit Pollard into and obviously that didn't work. Lamb is tremendous, but Cooks was a rental and there is no running mate locked in with him next year. If the team was a solution at QB away, I'd say bank it all in on a vet. But that isn't the issue. There's a lot of holes and question marks, several problems that need solving, and while cutting Dak only creates another question mark, it also allows you to answer some of those other questions while POSSIBLY finding a much cheaper alternative, or dare I say even an upgrade, at the QB position. 

The timing is just too right to not move on

[plan9misfit]

4 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

To whom it may concern: Dak went 17/21 for 220 yards, 2 TDs and 0 picks (a YPA of 10.5 and a passer rating of 142.1) after the Packers went up by 32 points. Prior to the Packers going up 32 points, he went 24/39 for 183 yards, 1 TD and 2 picks (a YPA of 4.7 and a passer rating of 60.1).

Very mediocre numbers for a player who will want $50M a year and can’t win in the playoffs.

[Dallas94Ware]

1 minute ago, plan9misfit said:

Trey Lance is already on the roster. Roll with him and see if he can play. If not, then draft someone. Or, looks for a sucker team that’s willing to fork over draft picks for Dak and package them for a QB this year. Either way, he and Mike need to go. 

Pretty much my thought on the matter 

If you read my first post of tonight. I said Mike McCarthy defeated Dallas 48-32. And it's very true from what I saw. He needs to go.

As for Dak. The timing is just too perfect. It's time to move on no matter what anyone thinks of him as a QB. Between the cap hit. The contracts due soon for other essential players. And the quality of both QBs in the next two drafts and the quality of the HC candidates this year, coupled with Lance being only 24 and now two seasons removed from his horrific injury, the timing is just too perfect. Had Dallas advanced to the title game, or to the SB, it would be hard to convince anyone it's time to cut him. But he fell short, for various reasons not all of his own accord, but he still fell short. And that, coupled with his cap hit, contracts coming up, a new HC, Trey Lance, and quality rookie pools over the next two years...the timing really is just too damn perfect 

[Dallas94Ware]

10 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

To whom it may concern: Dak went 17/21 for 220 yards, 2 TDs and 0 picks (a YPA of 10.5 and a passer rating of 142.1) after the Packers went up by 32 points. Prior to the Packers going up 32 points, he went 24/39 for 183 yards, 1 TD and 2 picks (a YPA of 4.7 and a passer rating of 60.1).

Mostly against a cover 4 defense. Aside from a deep banana route to Lamb and a nice delivery to Cooks on a stutter step up the field, in that time frame, Dak mostly worked underneath the 4 deep zones which were there to ALLOW HIM TO CHEW UP YARDAGE and even allow him to score - but depriving him of the ability to do any of it quickly enough to allow a real chance to rally from behind.

Very different from going 17/21 for two scores against a teams actual defensive scheme designed to force a quick punt. The Packers were willing to give up all those yards and completions, as long as it all kept the clock moving.

[textaz03]

3 minutes ago, Dallas94Ware said:

Pretty much my thought on the matter 

If you read my first post of tonight. I said Mike McCarthy defeated Dallas 48-32. And it's very true from what I saw. He needs to go.

As for Dak. The timing is just too perfect. It's time to move on no matter what anyone thinks of him as a QB. Between the cap hit. The contracts due soon for other essential players. And the quality of both QBs in the next two drafts and the quality of the HC candidates this year, coupled with Lance being only 24 and now two seasons removed from his horrific injury, the timing is just too perfect. Had Dallas advanced to the title game, or to the SB, it would be hard to convince anyone it's time to cut him. But he fell short, for various reasons not all of his own accord, but he still fell short. And that, coupled with his cap hit, contracts coming up, a new HC, Trey Lance, and quality rookie pools over the next two years...the timing really is just too damn perfect 

Problem is, we love our guys! Jerry hates to admit defeat on players. Him and Steven will suck it up and throw that money at him. That’s why we seriously need a GM who is emotionally tied to players. 

Edited January 15 by textaz03

[matt79511]

5 minutes ago, plan9misfit said:

Very mediocre numbers for a player who will want $50M a year and can’t win in the playoffs.

I think people are sometimes too liberal with the term "garbage time" as we've seen bigger and bigger comebacks at every level as teams become more adept at passing. But tonight, quite literally more than half of our quarterback's production came in what can only be called "garbage time." GB absolutely let up at the end.

[Dallas94Ware]

7 minutes ago, textaz03 said:

Problem is, we love our guys! Jerry hates to admit defeat on players. Him and Steven will suck it up and throw that money at him. That’s why we seriously need a GM who is emotionally tied to players. 

Jerry is GM in title only. Will McClay and Stephen Jones are the brains of the operation, and we have seen the turnaround of this teams free agency decisions and draft day selections since they took on larger roles in the personnel department. If Jerry was squarely front and center in charge. This team would have had Johnny Manziel and then Paxton Lynch, and completely missed out on the Dak era.

That said, Jerry is loyal, for sure. Sometimes to a fault. But we have seen him make tough calls with Ware and Witten, two hall of Fame guys. Let alone countless, less noteworthy but still Jerrys guy type players. I don't think cutting Dak is totally out of the question for him. I think the bigger issue would be, would this front office do it if they can't guarantee a successful transition to his successor? Jerry wants to win. And if there's any doubt as to Lances ability to win or his ability to draft a guy who's going to win, he will never let Dak go.

Romo would probably still be a Cowboy if Jerry didn't see a successful transition to Dak as very likely, and that only came about due to dumb luck of injuries to three quarterbacks ahead of him in Romo, Moore and Showers. That desire to win makes it very tough to venture into the unknown of Lance, a rookie, or some other, cheaper veteran.

Edited January 15 by Dallas94Ware

[plan9misfit]

1 minute ago, matt79511 said:

I think people are sometimes too liberal with the term "garbage time" as we've seen bigger and bigger comebacks at every level as teams become more adept at passing. But tonight, quite literally more than half of our quarterback's production came in what can only be called "garbage time." GB absolutely let up at the end.

Indeed. True empty calorie stats. GB was playing soft until they felt threatened, and then clamped down again. This blunder falls heavily on the coaching staff to where it’s almost laughable. But, it also demonstrates how mentally soft Dak is, because it’s now a routine with him. At some point, a true franchise QB has to recognize that problem early, and fight to overcome it. It doesn’t always translate to a win, but it demonstrates leadership and a QB fighting tooth and nail from the onset in the attempt to win. Dak never does this until VERY late, and often when the game is totally out of reach, and that’s a problem. 

[SodeeWater_Cheezburger]

Hang in there, Cowboys fans.  Another playoff loss has to hurt, but on the bright side, you have a great team and you are one of the marquis franchises in the entire history of the league.  Once you break through this drought, you will probably go on a run for multiple Super Bowls.  You also have the best cheerleaders too, and it's not even close! 

 

[Dallas94Ware]

2 minutes ago, plan9misfit said:

Indeed. True empty calorie stats. GB was playing soft until they felt threatened, and then clamped down again. This blunder falls heavily on the coaching staff to where it’s almost laughable. But, it also demonstrates how mentally soft Dak is, because it’s now a routine with him. At some point, a true franchise QB has to recognize that problem early, and fight to overcome it. It doesn’t always translate to a win, but it demonstrates leadership and a QB fighting tooth and nail from the onset in the attempt to win. Dak never does this until VERY late, and often when the game is totally out of reach, and that’s a problem. 

Also to @matt79511

This, 100%

I HATE HATE HATE the term garbage time. This is the pros, there is no garbage time.

Green Bay playing cover 4 was a strategic effort. They weren't playing care free and letting Dak try to rally without keeping him in check. They rushed him as usual with 4 guys, even had a sack and several near-sacks. They were just being strategic and taking away the big play, letting Dak chew up yardage, completions, and most importantly, time on the clock.

It was strategy. Not garbage time.

That being said....it is immensely easier and undeniably not even questionable to say completing 14 or 15 of those 17 passes in "garbage time" was much easier throwing to Ferguson in a completely vacated center of the field or to Cooks or Lamb running curls and in breaking routes that stop them way, way short of where the actual coverage is being focused. 

[Dallas94Ware]

Mike McCarthy beat Dallas tonight. His approach to offense was an attempted curve ball that didn't work. And he changed the plan way too late. Quinn did the same thing, and McCarthy - as he did with his offense - failed to call his coordinator out and say change it up, until it was too late.

Worse still was the management of the clock. That first drive of the third quarter, he called it like the score was more like 14-7 instead of 1,000-7 like it felt. It ate up more than a third of the quarter, when what they really needed was a show of force and a solid drive that took much less time. It essentially handcuffed the team to their deficit.

For those not in the know. A HC, even if he doesn't actually call the offense or defense, still has to approve the call sheet of installed plays each week by their coordinators. If Quinn felt the curve ball of cover 3 and cover 2 zone heavy coverages was going to surprise Green Bay, a good MANAGER of his team gives the idea the green light if he trusts his coordinator - but doesn't approve that call sheet until there's a backup plan implemented in there somewhere. A fall back in case the curveball idea doesn't work. And a good manager of his team calls that coordinator halfway through the first quarter or early in the second and tells him it's time for plan B, because plan A isn't working.

Some of that defensive woes obviously fall on Quinn. But the man in charge, well, he's supposed to be in charge for a reason. And he didn't do his job well at all tonight, and from the looks of it, he didn't do it well all week in preparation for this game.

Edited January 15 by Dallas94Ware

[MaddHatter]

Sorry, just woke up and can still taste the bourbon I drank to get the taste of that loss out of my mouth, but anyone arguing for dumping Dak is not being a “realist”. Mike? Sure, very reasonable. Dak? Not a chance.  And no, Trey ain’t gonna step in and put up MVP numbers or perform any better in the playoffs, so knock that talk off

[WizardHawk]

15 minutes ago, MaddHatter said:

Sorry, just woke up and can still taste the bourbon I drank to get the taste of that loss out of my mouth, but anyone arguing for dumping Dak is not being a “realist”. Mike? Sure, very reasonable. Dak? Not a chance.  And no, Trey ain’t gonna step in and put up MVP numbers or perform any better in the playoffs, so knock that talk off

Clearly the odds of Dallas moving Dak are insignificant, but I don't believe it should be out of the question anymore.  They can win with him, but his play yesterday is going to stick and the idea of paying him again and bumping it up isn't very palpable to say the least. Frankly, I'm at a point where I'm unsure anyone should be untouchable.