AngusMcFife Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 56 minutes ago, Football_Bachelor08 said: They didn't seem to have trouble following his lead after that speech in the NFC Championship. Just because he's not obsessed to the point of running his body into the ground doesn't make him a poor leader. No but when you are talking about GOAT defenders, the greatest galvanized their team due to the force of nature of the personalities (LT, Reggie White, Deion Sanders, Ray Lewis - it goes on). Donald was content to play his role as well as he could possibly play it but I don't think he had that extra factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 17 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: Donald's quotes upon retiring are telling: "I'm complete, I'm full. I think the passion to play the game is no longer there for me... I'm burnt out... I'm full... I'm satisfied" He played his position as well as you could possibly play it, but he was no leader, no gamer, just a guy doing a job. Can you imagine Ray Lewis saying some weak sh*t like that after only playing 10 seasons and getting only 1 Super Bowl? Sorry but leadership counts if you want to be consider a GOAT. So your areugments are: 1. The defense he played DT on with 11 other grown men had letdown games. 2. After 10 years of getting double/tripled teamed by guys twice his size more than anyone ever, his body was overworked and wanted to go out on his terms. 3. He wasn't a leader, which you have no actual evidence of. I feel like you're just continually reaching to down talk a player that you yourself have said you barely saw play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 26 minutes ago, JonStark said: So your areugments are: 1. The defense he played DT on with 11 other grown men had letdown games. 2. After 10 years of getting double/tripled teamed by guys twice his size more than anyone ever, his body was overworked and wanted to go out on his terms. 3. He wasn't a leader, which you have no actual evidence of. I feel like you're just continually reaching to down talk a player that you yourself have said you barely saw play. Heavy is the crown of the king. I'm just comparing him to other players who are considered GOAT at their position. Ray Lewis, LT, Reggie White. To me, Donald seems very intelligent and thoughtful, I just never got that bloodthirsty, crazed dog mentality from him that other great defensive leaders demonstrated and their teammates fed off of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 10 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Heavy is the crown of the king. I'm just comparing him to other players who are considered GOAT at their position. Ray Lewis, LT, Reggie White. To me, Donald seems very intelligent and thoughtful, I just never got that bloodthirsty, crazed dog mentality from him that other great defensive leaders demonstrated and their teammates fed off of. But you also said you barely watched him play, so what exactly are you basing all of your opinions in this thread on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 18 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: Donald's quotes upon retiring are telling: "I'm complete, I'm full. I think the passion to play the game is no longer there for me... I'm burnt out... I'm full... I'm satisfied" He played his position as well as you could possibly play it, but he was no leader, no gamer, just a guy doing a job. Can you imagine Ray Lewis saying some weak sh*t like that after only playing 10 seasons and getting only 1 Super Bowl? Sorry but leadership counts if you want to be consider a GOAT. You heard it here, folks. If you don’t run your body into the ground to the point where you’re living your daily life in pain, that’s some weak ****. Christ, this place never ceases to amaze me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 4 hours ago, JonStark said: But you also said you barely watched him play, so what exactly are you basing all of your opinions in this thread on? False, I never said I barely watched him. I watched him enough to form an opinion, I understand his style of play and role in the defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 20 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: False, I never said I barely watched him. I watched him enough to form an opinion, I understand his style of play and role in the defense. On 3/20/2024 at 4:00 PM, AngusMcFife said: Just based on my eye that didn't see Donald that often. Saying thing like Donald "hardly a transformational player", or that he struggles in gap assignments, or that the defense as a whole underperforming should be attributed to him at DT (when he's taking up 2-3 guys consistently) all points to the fact that you really didn't watch enough to form an opinion. None of that is accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 I know he’s trolling. But imagine if Donald had The help Ray had on defense? LBs, CBs and Safety. Now I know it’s not fair because Ray never had the Offense Donald had. But my lawd. T sizzle, Ed Reed, Haloti, Mcalister, Bart Scott, Adalius Thomas, Pierce eating up 2, Elvis Dumervile and prime Eric Weddle. Lord that wouldn’t be fair. Even throw in Webb in there. Hmmmmm a man can dream. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 hour ago, JonStark said: Saying thing like Donald "hardly a transformational player", or that he struggles in gap assignments, or that the defense as a whole underperforming should be attributed to him at DT (when he's taking up 2-3 guys consistently) all points to the fact that you really didn't watch enough to form an opinion. None of that is accurate. I didn't say he struggled in gap assignments, you are mischaracterizing my argument. My point is that many great DTs throughout history had to be anchors against the run game, they were not coached to penetrate and juke interior OL like Donald does often. Donald is a great specialist DT who was the greatest of all time at being a disruptive that's only part of being a great DT. To me it's similar to how I react when some people consider Deion Sanders one of the greatest of all time. Yes he was an all time elite cover corner, but he was also a bad tackler. He was an incredible impact player due to his great skill, but he is more of a specialist than a well rounded player. Donald is similar to me, insofar as he is a specialist DT similar to (but better than) Sapp, he's definitely the best under tackle in NFL history, I think if you asked him to play NT in a 3-4 front he isn't really built for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 2 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: I didn't say he struggled in gap assignments, you are mischaracterizing my argument. My point is that many great DTs throughout history had to be anchors against the run game, they were not coached to penetrate and juke interior OL like Donald does often. Donald is a great specialist DT who was the greatest of all time at being a disruptive that's only part of being a great DT. To me it's similar to how I react when some people consider Deion Sanders one of the greatest of all time. Yes he was an all time elite cover corner, but he was also a bad tackler. He was an incredible impact player due to his great skill, but he is more of a specialist than a well rounded player. Donald is similar to me, insofar as he is a specialist DT similar to (but better than) Sapp, he's definitely the best under tackle in NFL history, I think if you asked him to play NT in a 3-4 front he isn't really built for that. The crazy thing is Sapp himself said he was better and clears him. So yeah, that’s pretty nutty. And many consider Sapp the best or whatever. But when even Sapp says it it’s kinda saying something. I would much rather have a game wrecker than a guy like snacks. A game wrecker impacts and changes an offense way more than a run stopper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 12 hours ago, El Ramster said: The crazy thing is Sapp himself said he was better and clears him. So yeah, that’s pretty nutty. And many consider Sapp the best or whatever. But when even Sapp says it it’s kinda saying something. I would much rather have a game wrecker than a guy like snacks. A game wrecker impacts and changes an offense way more than a run stopper. Some plays call for gap discipline, and other plays call for disruption. Ideally you want players who can do both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 On 3/24/2024 at 7:06 PM, JonStark said: On 3/24/2024 at 11:34 PM, El Ramster said: The more I think about it, I am more accepting of the argument that Donald is the greatest 3-tech DL of all time vs. best DT of all time. It's a bit more specific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 4 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: The more I think about it, I am more accepting of the argument that Donald is the greatest 3-tech DL of all time vs. best DT of all time. It's a bit more specific. I honestly don't have a problem with anyone saying he's not the GOAT DT. I absolutely think he is but it's not like it isn't close. I obviously watched more of his play than most and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just think saying things like he was hardly a transformational type of player or that the rest of the defense underperforming should be attributed to him are flat out wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperX22 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 He is the greatest of his generation. Best ever? Nah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fattlipp Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) On 3/24/2024 at 1:53 PM, JonStark said: So your areugments are: 1. The defense he played DT on with 11 other grown men had letdown games. 2. After 10 years of getting double/tripled teamed by guys twice his size more than anyone ever, his body was overworked and wanted to go out on his terms. 3. He wasn't a leader, which you have no actual evidence of. I feel like you're just continually reaching to down talk a player that you yourself have said you barely saw play. He’s 265, so he was being blocked by 2 or 3 530lb IOL. yeah he was probably better than Sapp and Randle. thought Brandt doesn’t even have him in the top 10, and he’s a respected scout, was a few years ago though.. https://www.nfl.com/photos/gil-brandt-s-greatest-nfl-defensive-tackles-of-all-time-0ap3000000816301 Article last year has him as #10 DL, with 2-3 DT in front of him https://athlonsports.com/nfl/25-greatest-defensive-linemen-nfl-history Edited March 27 by fattlipp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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