Is Aaron Donald now the greatest DT of all time?

[HerbertGOAT]

On 3/18/2024 at 3:20 AM, TecmoSuperJoe said:

But that was the game back then. People can't change when they were born. So I'm not sure what you expect them to do??? 

We can recognize that people can't control when they existed, and recognize the difference in era of ball play at the same time without diminishing the accomplishments of past players. There are disadvantages, and advantages for players in every era. Does every OL that came into the league after 1977 now have an asterisk when the legacy of their play is ever discussed with past players, because they got to block with their hands wide apart? That's one example, but we could go on, and on, back, and forth not having gained any ground for era comparison. 

So? We're talking about the greatest of ALL-TIME. While the old breed and their accomplishments should be recognized, the bottom line is AD dominated on an accolade basis just as much as any other DL in NFL history, in an era where all the rules favor the offense, QBs actually have mobility, and OLs are the freakiest, biggest, and strongest as they've ever been. That's the GOAT.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

25 minutes ago, HerbertGOAT said:

So? We're talking about the greatest of ALL-TIME. While the old breed and their accomplishments should be recognized, the bottom line is AD dominated on an accolade basis just as much as any other DL in NFL history, in an era where all the rules favor the offense, QBs actually have mobility, and OLs are the freakiest, biggest, and strongest as they've ever been. That's the GOAT.

So? So be fair is what I'm asking. All-time should account for era change. Why is that an unreasonable request? 

You have zero idea how Donald would have performed compared to the degree now if he was born in the 40's, and played in the 60's regardless of how much you want to theorize. Bottom line is that you don't know, because that information isn't available. 

Edited March 20 by TecmoSuperJoe

[El Ramster]

Also, remember LT made Ts get paid. Donald has made it the norm to get Gs paid. That’s a difference maker. A inside guy who put up edge numbers and dominated from day 1. That’s tough baby…. 

[HerbertGOAT]

8 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

So? So be fair is what I'm asking. All-time should account for era change. Why is that an unreasonable request? 

You have zero idea how Donald would have performed compared to the degree now if he was born in the 40's, and played in the 60's regardless of how much you want to theorize. Bottom line is that you don't know, because that information isn't available. 

Cross-era comparisons are nearly impossibly to do by any metric besides accolades. It comes down to who dominated their era the most, and Donald has as many 1st team all-pros as any defender to ever play the game, as many DPOYs as anybody, all while only playing 10 seasons (when his comparisons such as Lilly, Randy White, and others played 14 or longer) against the most skilled, athletic, and biggest competition to ever play the game. This isn't me saying "Cameron Heyward should be above Bob Lilly all-time because Heyward played better competition" or "Andy Dalton was better than Ken Stabler because Stabler played against white DBs", it's stating that the guy who has dominated as much as anybody ever has in terms of accolades against the toughest competition is the greatest DL ever.

Edited March 20 by HerbertGOAT

[JonStark]

10 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

So? So be fair is what I'm asking. All-time should account for era change. Why is that an unreasonable request? 

You have zero idea how Donald would have performed compared to the degree now if he was born in the 40's, and played in the 60's regardless of how much you want to theorize. Bottom line is that you don't know, because that information isn't available. 

It should be accounted for, just not as the "get out of jail free" card you're making it out to be.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

10 minutes ago, JonStark said:

It should be accounted for, just not as the "get out of jail free" card you're making it out to be.

You said that, not me. I've said "fair" all along. 

Edited March 20 by TecmoSuperJoe

[TecmoSuperJoe]

1 hour ago, HerbertGOAT said:

Cross-era comparisons are nearly impossibly to do by any metric besides accolades. It comes down to who dominated their era the most, and Donald has as many 1st team all-pros as any defender to ever play the game, as many DPOYs as anybody, all while only playing 10 seasons (when his comparisons such as Lilly, Randy White, and others played 14 or longer) against the most skilled, athletic, and biggest competition to ever play the game. This isn't me saying "Cameron Heyward should be above Bob Lilly all-time because Heyward played better competition" or "Andy Dalton was better than Ken Stabler because Stabler played against white DBs", it's stating that the guy who has dominated as much as anybody ever has in terms of accolades against the toughest competition is the greatest DL ever.

Everything you are now mentioning essentially supports what I've already been saying though lol. Which is using the information available, and being fair about it across eras. Using that way to go about it to arrive at the conclusion as to where you think Donald is the best that's ever played the position is a fair methodology in my eyes, because going by accolades and recognition for a player regardless of era doesn't in then turn also dismiss, diminish, or prop up another era. 

[Nobellythrower]

On 3/18/2024 at 3:26 PM, seminoles1 said:

Players who can't shoot 3s at all can't dominate like that.

Disagree, you see guards like sga whos in mvp consideration, jokic, ant dominate games, it's the evolution of the game why wouldn't he evolve, and this is pointless in a couple years I can just say lebron/curry wouldn't be able to keep with wemby because he's faced bigger/tougher/faster comp it's a cycle, 

[seminoles1]

24 minutes ago, Nobellythrower said:

Disagree, you see guards like sga whos in mvp consideration, jokic, ant dominate games, it's the evolution of the game why wouldn't he evolve, and this is pointless in a couple years I can just say lebron/curry wouldn't be able to keep with wemby because he's faced bigger/tougher/faster comp it's a cycle, 

Yeah, exactly my point.

[indifference]

AD is the GOAT DT

[AngusMcFife]

I would have liked to see a bit more gap discipline in run defense to anoint Donald as greatest DT. Great pass rusher though.

[Mr Bad Example]

One thing no one has mentioned about Page and Greene is they spent a key portion of their primes on dominant defensive lines.... on any given day either of them could have been the third or fourth best player on their DL; Donald was THE MAN on that Rams DL for the bulk of his career.

[JonStark]

47 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

I would have liked to see a bit more gap discipline in run defense to anoint Donald as greatest DT. Great pass rusher though.

You're gonna have to supply some evidence of this because he was pretty great against the run too. 

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, Mr Bad Example said:

One thing no one has mentioned about Page and Greene is they spent a key portion of their primes on dominant defensive lines.... on any given day either of them could have been the third or fourth best player on their DL; Donald was THE MAN on that Rams DL for the bulk of his career.

As far as points per game, the Rams only ever finished higher than 12th one time, and generally were ranked from 12 to 23.

That's quite an argument for greatest of all time: he put up stats on mediocre to weak defenses. Hardly a transformational player like LT or Ray Lewis.

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, JonStark said:

You're gonna have to supply some evidence of this because he was pretty great against the run too. 

Just based on my eye that didn't see Donald that often. For example Greg Roman's Ravens simply humiliated Donald's defenses because they were so undisciplined. Rams defenses generally weren't that good during Donald's tenure. It's easier for a guy to put up stats on a mediocre defense by shooting the gaps rather than play discipline gap control on run fits.