mdonnelly21 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 I also consider Reggie White an end. But I think its a tossup between Donald and Mean Joe Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 No love for Merlin? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duluther Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) Alan Page has: - the only NFL MVP for a defensive player - significantly more sacks (37.5 more) - 28 blocked kicks to Donald's 0 - about 3x times more turnovers (24/7 fumble recoveries) - more fumbles forced - more all-pro teams - more DPOY awards I didn't watch Page play. 90+% of us probably haven't live. We can only really go off stats/awards for he and Greene. When looking at stats/awards only, Page's resume is better than Donald. (Donald is the best defensive player I've ever watched in my ~25 years of watching.) Edited March 15 by Duluther 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodeeWater_Cheezburger Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 To be honest, I haven't watched too much of Aaron Donald, but I am old enough to remember the dominant players from the 70's. Alan Page, Mean Joe Greene, and Merlin Olsen should definitely be in that group. It's VERY close in my mind between Page and Greene, but I think Alan Page's resume pretty much speaks for itself. 28 blocked kicks?!?!?! Unbelievable! If there is anyone on this site who can talk about Alan Page, it would be @vike daddy. What do you think, VD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdonnelly21 Posted March 16 Author Share Posted March 16 4 hours ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said: To be honest, I haven't watched too much of Aaron Donald, but I am old enough to remember the dominant players from the 70's. Alan Page, Mean Joe Greene, and Merlin Olsen should definitely be in that group. It's VERY close in my mind between Page and Greene, but I think Alan Page's resume pretty much speaks for itself. 28 blocked kicks?!?!?! Unbelievable! If there is anyone on this site who can talk about Alan Page, it would be @vike daddy. What do you think, VD? 4 hours ago, Duluther said: Alan Page has: - the only NFL MVP for a defensive player - significantly more sacks (37.5 more) - 28 blocked kicks to Donald's 0 - about 3x times more turnovers (24/7 fumble recoveries) - more fumbles forced - more all-pro teams - more DPOY awards I didn't watch Page play. 90+% of us probably haven't live. We can only really go off stats/awards for he and Greene. When looking at stats/awards only, Page's resume is better than Donald. (Donald is the best defensive player I've ever watched in my ~25 years of watching.) 28 Blocks. How do you even do that!? Doesn't even make sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 If Donald played a few more years, he may have clinched it, but now I don't think he's the clear cut greatest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 (edited) 17 hours ago, Duluther said: Alan Page has: - the only NFL MVP for a defensive player - significantly more sacks (37.5 more) - 28 blocked kicks to Donald's 0 - about 3x times more turnovers (24/7 fumble recoveries) - more fumbles forced - more all-pro teams - more DPOY awards Where’s that info from? PFR doesn’t have FFs recorded back then. They also have Page credited for x1 DPOY, x5 1st Team All-Pros, x3 Second Team All Pros, and x9 Pro Bowls over 16 seasons. Compared to Donald’s x3 DPOY, x8 1st Team All Pros, and x10Pro Bowls over 10 seasons. EDIT: Also, moot to this topic, but LT won MVP too. Edited March 16 by Soko 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 People really underestimate the difference in talent between the eras of Page/LT and the one AD played in. Donald is easily the GOAT DT, and probably the GOAT defensive player in general. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 45 minutes ago, JonStark said: People really underestimate the difference in talent between the eras of Page/LT and the one AD played in. Donald is easily the GOAT DT, and probably the GOAT defensive player in general. But should past players like Page be penalized for the era they were born in? Or should they be treated fairly simply on the basis of how dominant they were among their peers in their era? Would Donald have developed into the player he was if he played in the 60's, and 70's with the training, and nutrition knowledge that existed back then??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 In the Super Bowl era as far as DTs go I usually see these several guys talked about the most, and put in the conversation for greatest ever: Alan Page Joe Greene Merlin Olsen Aaron Donald Randy White Bob Lilly Unfortunately with the differences in era, and lack of advanced analysis for older players it's essentially impossible to have a more nuanced discussion. And it's not like quarterback where "winning" is given more value to that position. Also I'm of the opinion that the OGs shouldn't be penalized over something they couldn't control, which is when they were born. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 4 hours ago, JonStark said: People really underestimate the difference in talent between the eras of Page/LT and the one AD played in. Donald is easily the GOAT DT, and probably the GOAT defensive player in general. The problem with this line of thinking is you are basically making 90+% of todays DTs as better than Page and Greene, along with Lilly and Olsen, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 6 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: But should past players like Page be penalized for the era they were born in? Or should they be treated fairly simply on the basis of how dominant they were among their peers in their era? Would Donald have developed into the player he was if he played in the 60's, and 70's with the training, and nutrition knowledge that existed back then??? No they shouldn't, but that doesn't mean we have to act like the playing field for both were the same. It's not. I think it's pretty fair to say that there's a far greater chance that AD would be equal or better playing in the earlier era than there is that Page was equal or better playing in the current era. The training and nutrition knowledge is a moot point because not only do all of the players that AD went up against have that same advantage (hence why the current era has a higher level of competition), but it's an impossible scenario to evaluate. By that logic, I could argue that Ryan Leaf would've been better than Peyton Manning had they been drafted 20 years later. 2 hours ago, mse326 said: The problem with this line of thinking is you are basically making 90+% of todays DTs as better than Page and Greene, along with Lilly and Olsen, etc. Not true. It's perfectly fair to say that those guys would still be elite in today's game, which would be better than 95% of current players. Just because they wouldn't be on AD's level doesn't mean they would be bottom of the barrel. We don't have to go to the extreme by admitting that the competition level in today's game is a little higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 39 minutes ago, JonStark said: Not true. It's perfectly fair to say that those guys would still be elite in today's game, which would be better than 95% of current players. Just because they wouldn't be on AD's level doesn't mean they would be bottom of the barrel. We don't have to go to the extreme by admitting that the competition level in today's game is a little higher. Greene was like 270lbs. And his biggest strength was rush defense. It's unlikely he would be elite and he is one like a handful of players that have the weight to even be considered viable today (he's also said he isn't sure he could play under these rules since he used the head slap and would go low on QBs). Alan Page was 245lbs. He isn't even playing DT. So, no, it isn't fair to say they would be elite today and better than 95% of them. The reality is than none from then plopped directly into today would be dominant and even the vast majority of the elite ones wouldn't even make the teams. We could do this at loads of positions. Graham and Unitas are undoubtedly among the greatest ever QBs. The QBs of today would run rings around them. But no one in their right mind would say that Kirk Cousins is better than them. If we don't rate players based on their own time then the current will always be better. To be clear while I don't think Donald is better it is not at all a ridiculous opinion. I think they are close. But the reasoning is based on how they did in their own times. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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